Did Fleet pull a gun on John in Georgia?

[GuruJosh]

I was just reading a Stephen Singular chat recorded for posterity on the Candy Rose site.

Singular claims that 3 eyewitnesses report that Fleet drew a gun during his fight/argument with John at the funeral of JBR in Georgia.

Has this been investigated? Is it true?

-------------------------------------------

04] <BayBB> What do you know about the fight after the funeral? Was there a gun
pulled?
[21:04] <steve_co> Yes ,Fleet white pulled a gun onJR. Whywouldhe dothis if hewere
anionnocen bystander?
[21:04] <Blue> wow
[21:04] <BayBB> I had heard he was the one that had a gun pulled on him
[21:04] <Jeralyn> Because John figured out his part? (A theory not an accusation, folks)
[21:05] <steve_co> perhaps
<Aquarius2> So are you suggesting that wherever she was at this *advertiser censored* photo shoot that
they put the wrong panties on her before they brought her home?
[21:05] <BayBB> Thanks I have no more questions at this time
[21:05] <Mamawati> how do we know this is a fact, that Fleet pulled a gun?
[21:05] <steve_co> no, thatherpants were changed after she got home.
[21:06] <Jeralyn> is this after her body was wiped down?
[21:06] *** mapek (mpk@den-co61-25.ix.netcom.com) has joined #webbsleuths
[21:06] <steve_co> three eyewitnesses havesaid this.
[21:06] <Mamawati> thanks
<Aquarius2> eyewitnesses on the gun incident?
[21:06] <steve_co> three eyewitneses downingeorgia saidfleet pulled a gun
---------------------------

 

[BlueCrab]

I was just reading a Stephen Singular chat recorded for posterity on the Candy Rose site.

Singular claims that 3 eyewitnesses report that Fleet drew a gun during his fight/argument with John at the funeral of JBR in Georgia.

Has this been investigated? Is it true?

GuruJosh,

That's a ludicrous rumor. Who are the "eyewitnesses"? There are none.

The only mention of a gun during the Atlanta episode was when the Ramseys called Don Paugh and told him to get out his gun because Fleet White was on his way over to talk about the case.

 

[tipper]

Never heard he drew a gun. Have heard Don Paugh hid a gun behind a couch cushion when told Fleet was on his way over and out of control. There is also this which isn't very clear as to who did what.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm
MIKE KANE: What kind of behavior?

17 JOHN RAMSEY: A lot of it I didn't see,

18 but just heard about it. But when John Fernie

19 wouldn't let Fleet on the airplane because he

20 thought he was too out of control. My brother

21 called, they were supposed to stay at the

22 Westmoreland's and they nearly got cross-wise, and

23 they're two of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

24 They wouldn't stay there.

25 They went and stayed at my brother's and my

0352

1 brother called me and said that he had a gun in

2 the house. I was, apparently lost. And he said,

3 Fleet White just left here and he's on his way

4 over. I think he's extremely dangerous. I got him

5 out of the house. Apparently he had those -- and

6 my brother is as calm and as level headed as any

7 person I know who is right to the core. Whatever

8 happened there.

 

[GuruJosh]

The fact remains that Singular, who has looked at the case carefully and has had special access to various case protagonists, was sure enough about this alleged event that he risked discrediting himself by claiming that he personally KNEW of 3 eyewitnesses who saw Fleet pull a gun on John.

Either he knows of three eyewitnesses who testify to this event, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he's lying. If he does, then the question of whether Fleet pulled a weapon on John in Georgia, although not resolved, becomes a very legitimate question (and speculation about the reasons behind it also become legitimate).

Fleet's behavior during those days has been reported by more than one individual as highly out-of-character, highly emotional, and indeed highly threatening.

It seems to me that between the two of them (Fleet and JR, that is), at least one of them must have a pretty darn good idea of what happened to JBR.

And for some reason, neither is talking.

 

[BlueCrab]

The fact remains that Singular, who has looked at the case carefully and has had special access to various case protagonists, was sure enough about this alleged event that he risked discrediting himself by claiming that he personally KNEW of 3 eyewitnesses who saw Fleet pull a gun on John.

Either he knows of three eyewitnesses who testify to this event, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he's lying. If he does, then the question of whether Fleet pulled a weapon on John in Georgia, although not resolved, becomes a very legitimate question (and speculation about the reasons behind it also become legitimate).

Fleet's behavior during those days has been reported by more than one individual as highly out-of-character, highly emotional, and indeed highly threatening.

It seems to me that between the two of them (Fleet and JR, that is), at least one of them must have a pretty darn good idea of what happened to JBR.

And for some reason, neither is talking.

GuruJosh,

Please re-read the post you are commenting from. It wasn't Singular who knows three eyewitnesses. Singular is simply reporting that there were reportedly three eyewitnesses down in Georgia who claim to have seen Fleet pull a gun. There's no names of witnesses or any other kind of a source to give the obvious rumor any credibility. Also, please note that it appears to be from a poster from the double B forum -- the source of most derogatory Fleet White stories.

 

[GuruJosh]

Singular is simply reporting that there were reportedly three eyewitnesses down in Georgia who claim to have seen Fleet pull a gun.

Re-reading the post, Singular obviously BELIEVES the 3 eyewitnesses who, he reports, REPORT that they saw Fleet pull a gun. (confused?)

Why? Why would he believe these 3 anonymous eyewitnesses?

Either 1) He trusts the source who reported to him ABOUT the 3 eyewitnesses

or 2) He knows who the 3 eyewitnesses are/were.

Given that, and given he appears to believe the story that Fleet pulled a gun on John (he states it as fact in his first comment in the IRC transcript quoted above), is he telling the truth? Either the 3 eyewitnesses exist, or they don't. Singular obviously believes they exist.

So, why does Singular trust this story if, as you imply BC, it is so easily demonstrable as BS? Is it BS?

 

[BlueCrab]

Re-reading the post, Singular obviously BELIEVES the 3 eyewitnesses who, he reports, REPORT that they saw Fleet pull a gun. (confused?)

Why? Why would he believe these 3 anonymous eyewitnesses?

Either 1) He trusts the source who reported to him ABOUT the 3 eyewitnesses

or 2) He knows who the 3 eyewitnesses are/were.

Given that, and given he appears to believe the story that Fleet pulled a gun on John (he states it as fact in his first comment in the IRC transcript quoted above), is he telling the truth? Either the 3 eyewitnesses exist, or they don't. Singular obviously believes they exist.

So, why does Singular trust this story if, as you imply BC, it is so easily demonstrable as BS? Is it BS?

GuruJosh,

I think it's BS. Why would Fleet pull a gun on John? Fleet is a big guy, and towers over John. And how did Fleet get a gun onto the airplane? It's ridiculous, and another scumbucket rumor to defame Fleet and his family.

It's BS because the names of the so-called eyewitnesses are not used. And they're not being used because they don't exist.

The truth is more likely the other way around -- it was the Ramseys who called Don Paugh and suggested that he get out his gun because Fleet is upset and is on his way over to discuss the murder of JonBenet. The reason that Fleet's upset, IMO, is because he already knows that a Ramsey killed JonBenet (because he knows John moved the body) and he wants it all out in the open. Instead, the Ramseys are lawyering up and have already told Fleet (through Mike Bynum) to "stay out of it".

 

[Nehemiah]

Can you post a link to the referenced interview @ ACR's site? Thanks so much.

 

[capps]

GuruJosh,

I think it's BS. Why would Fleet pull a gun on John? Fleet is a big guy, and towers over John. And how did Fleet get a gun onto the airplane? It's ridiculous, and another scumbucket rumor to defame Fleet and his family.

It's BS because the names of the so-called eyewitnesses are not used. And they're not being used because they don't exist.

The truth is more likely the other way around -- it was the Ramseys who called Don Paugh and suggested that he get out his gun because Fleet is upset and is on his way over to discuss the murder of JonBenet. The reason that Fleet's upset, IMO, is because he already knows that a Ramsey killed JonBenet (because he knows John moved the body) and he wants it all out in the open. Instead, the Ramseys are lawyering up and have already told Fleet (through Mike Bynum) to "stay out of it".

Apparently Fleet and JR are no longer friends,so if he is so upset with JR for not cooperating with the BPD,and as you claim in your opinion Fleet knows a Ramsey did it ... why doesn't Fleet go to the police and tell them all he knows?

 

[Lacy Wood]

Is there any reason to think FW has not told LE what he saw and what he believes? I suspect he has told his story and that it is now just a part of what is deemed insufficient. There are things he may believe he observed that could suggest guilt, but which would not be very persuasive in court...such as, suspicious or furtive actions, seemingly faked emotion, things told to him that were later altered (but that would be certain to be disputed in court), etc. One item might be that he is absolutely convinced the body was repositioned in the room after he looked in the door. But even if it were a fact the body was moved, thereby confirming a staging, it still doesn't solve the case. If a family member did it, I think someone will have to talk to resolve the case.

 

[LazyCat08]

I am not terribly familiar with Fleet White's history other than that he was at the Ramsey home when the body was discovered and that the families were friends and reportedly ceased to be sometime after JBR's death.

Does Fleet White have any reason to not come out and tell the police AND the media at least his side of the story...even if it doesn't solve the case it certainly would either point in one direction or the other (Ramsey innocence or Ramsey guilt). If he truly believed that they were hiding something that they had a moral obligation to tell police, why would he not make it known?

If this rumor were true and Fleet White felt strong enough to "pull a gun" on JR in front of 3 people - would he not feel strong enough to spill the beans to the rest of the country?

 

[capps]

You know ... why do I feel not altogether comfortable with Fleet White,the important Boulder,Colorado oil tycoon?

Let's see ....

The only involvement he sould have had with the Ramsey investigation is:

* At the Ramsey party on 12/23,FW claims he made the accidental 911 call which brought the police to the Ramsey house,by dailing incorrectly.

* He had a party on 12/25,and the Ramsey's were invited.

* He was asked to come to the Ramsey's house on the morning of the murder;and went down to the basement with John when JonBenet was found.

* On April 1997 Fleet White was cleared.

That seems simple enough,you would think at this point he would quietly melt into the background.

But no ....

* FW says he didn't see JB's body when he looked into the wine cellar.

* He becomes very upset and out of control on the day of JB's funeral.

* Fleet and Priscilla are no longer friends with the Ramsey's.

* He is not showing up in court to tesitify,even at the risk of going to jail.

* FW is doing interviews and writing letters all over the place,to anyone who will listen,stating he doesn't believe the investigation is being handled right.Yet he is not telling (media at least),what he believes happened.

Friend or Foe?

I don't yet know the answer to that question.
I think I have more sleuthing to do ....

 

[GuruJosh]

Good post Capps I too need to do more sleuthing, but those are my questions exactly, from what i know of this case.

to me, FW doesn't add up. He's odd and like you say, although he's writing letters left right and centre, he isn't fessing up 100% of the way...


'tis my impression anyhoo

 

[GuruJosh]

blue crab, do you believe fleet knows that Burke killed jbr?

 

[BlueCrab]

blue crab, do you believe fleet knows that Burke killed jbr?

GuruJosh,

IMO Fleet White knows a Ramsey was directly involved in the death of JonBenet. The reason he knows this is because he knows John moved the body sometime between 6:20 AM and 1:05 PM. The body wasn't there when Fleet looked into the wine cellar at 6:20 AM, but it was there when he and John looked into the wine cellar at 1:05 PM.

IMO Fleet wanted John to admit the truth up front and clear the case in the first few days since Fleet likely suspected juvenile involvement and thus there would be no criminal charges. But, due to the sexual erotic asphyxiation aspect of the crime and the probable involvement of one or two other young people (one of them a legal adult), there was too much embarrassment and culpability of others for the Ramseys to do the right thing.

They opted to cover up, and with the support of Mike Bynum and his huge lawfirm of over 300 attorneys, and the politically powerful lawfirm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman appointed as his defense attorneys, the Ramseys successfully covered up and threw everyone else under the bus, including Fleet White and his entire family.

Fleet White, on day one, was summoned to Mike Bynum's office and bluntly told that everything's been taken care of and to STAY OUT OF IT. If you were Fleet White, how would YOU have reacted?

BlueCrab

 

[capps]

GuruJosh,

IMO Fleet White knows a Ramsey was directly involved in the death of JonBenet. The reason he knows this is because he knows John moved the body sometime between 6:20 AM and 1:05 PM. The body wasn't there when Fleet looked into the wine cellar at 6:20 AM, but it was there when he and John looked into the wine cellar at 1:05 PM.

IMO Fleet wanted John to admit the truth up front and clear the case in the first few days since Fleet likely suspected juvenile involvement and thus there would be no criminal charges. But, due to the sexual erotic asphyxiation aspect of the crime and the probable involvement of one or two other young people (one of them a legal adult), there was too much embarrassment and culpability of others for the Ramseys to do the right thing.

They opted to cover up, and with the support of Mike Bynum and his huge lawfirm of over 300 attorneys, and the politically powerful lawfirm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman appointed as his defense attorneys, the Ramseys successfully covered up and threw everyone else under the bus, including Fleet White and his entire family.

Fleet White, on day one, was summoned to Mike Bynum's office and bluntly told that everything's been taken care of and to STAY OUT OF IT. If you were Fleet White, how would YOU have reacted?

BlueCrab

You may be right BlueCrab.

But if what you are saying turns out to be true,in my opinion the Ramsey's are one cold hearted family,to not get BR help,and be willing to let a young adult who knows better,walk free,possibly to do again,without trying to convict ... just because they would be embarrassed.

No one then,pays for the death of their young daughter ,,, and life goes on.

That's a double nightmare.
What a shame.

 

[BlueCrab]

You may be right BlueCrab.

But if what you are saying turns out to be true,in my opinion the Ramsey's are one cold hearted family,to not get BR help,and be willing to let a young adult who knows better,walk free,possibly to do again,without trying to convict ... just because they would be embarrassed.

No one then,pays for the death of their young daughter ,,, and life goes on.

That's a double nightmare.
What a shame.

capps,

Maybe someone is getting the help they need.

 

[sissi]

You know ... why do I feel not altogether comfortable with Fleet White,the important Boulder,Colorado oil tycoon?

Let's see ....

The only involvement he sould have had with the Ramsey investigation is:

* At the Ramsey party on 12/23,FW claims he made the accidental 911 call which brought the police to the Ramsey house,by dailing incorrectly.

* He had a party on 12/25,and the Ramsey's were invited.

* He was asked to come to the Ramsey's house on the morning of the murder;and went down to the basement with John when JonBenet was found.

* On April 1997 Fleet White was cleared.

That seems simple enough,you would think at this point he would quietly melt into the background.

But no ....

* FW says he didn't see JB's body when he looked into the wine cellar.

* He becomes very upset and out of control on the day of JB's funeral.

* Fleet and Priscilla are no longer friends with the Ramsey's.

* He is not showing up in court to tesitify,even at the risk of going to jail.

* FW is doing interviews and writing letters all over the place,to anyone who will listen,stating he doesn't believe the investigation is being handled right.Yet he is not telling (media at least),what he believes happened.

Friend or Foe?

I don't yet know the answer to that question.
I think I have more sleuthing to do ....

I wonder if it's most telling that he wasn't right by his side when John found Jonbenet. Did he avoid doing this? If two men were going to check things out, they would have stayed with each other, maybe discussing the known events, I do not believe Fleet should have lagged behind as he did.

 

[BlueCrab]

I wonder if it's most telling that he wasn't right by his side when John found Jonbenet. Did he avoid doing this? If two men were going to check things out, they would have stayed with each other, maybe discussing the known events, I do not believe Fleet should have lagged behind as he did.

sissi,

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to pin something on Fleet White. Not even the Ramseys believe the Whites are suspects. From the Atlanta interviews in 2000:

MIKE KANE: "Do you still consider Priscilla White to be a suspect?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I never considered either of the Whites to be a suspect."

 

[sissi]

sissi,

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to pin something on Fleet White. Not even the Ramseys believe the Whites are suspects. From the Atlanta interviews in 2000:

MIKE KANE: "Do you still consider Priscilla White to be a suspect?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I never considered either of the Whites to be a suspect."

Someone killed Jonbenet, I have NO idea who. Until we know, most are somewhat suspect, especially those with odd behaviors, Fleet, Santa, MP, that "could" have gained access to the house and the child.IMO

Edit..but ya' think they would have not "cleared" Burke?