Did the jury get it wrong, or...

[Nenato5]

If you listen to the jurors who have spoken, it is apparent that they based the entire verdict on the Defense opening statement and NOTHING else. They must have missed or misunderstood the instruction that opening statements are NOT evidence. Not surprising though since they obviously did not follow or understand the verdict forms nor have the common sense to connect the dots.

 

[angeleleven]

Judge Jeanine is talking about the jurors now on Fox.

 

[Nenato5]

Judge Jeanine is talking about the jurors now on Fox.

And I have lost all respect for Dr. Baden--he is now the mouthpiece for LKB IMHO

 

[grandmaj]

Yes once Dr. Baden's wife became involved in this case Dr. Baden's story changed.


"The hair found in the trunk establishes that Caylee's dead and that her dead body was in the trunk of the car. Even if they don't find the body, it's enough evidence, scientific evidence, to establish that she's dead," said Dr. Michael Baden, nationally-renowned forensic pathologist.

DNA testing done on that piece of hair and compared with a sample provided by Casey confirmed that neither Casey nor Caylee can be "excluded as the source of the hair," because the "mtDNA sequences ... are the same."

Tests also confirmed "residues of chloroform" within a spare tire cover found inside the trunk of Casey's car. "Residues consistent with chloroform" were also found within the left and right side trunk liner. The report says no other chemicals were detected within those items. Coupled with evidence that someone on Casey's computer was researching how to make chloroform, it could explain how Caylee was murdered.

"That would indicate that chloroform has to be considered as a cause of the baby's death," Dr. Baden said.



October 24, 2008
http://www.wftv.com/news/17793661/detail.html

 

[jjenny]

Nenato5, the same thing struck me as well. The jurors who have been interviewed appear to be repeating things said by Baez in opening statement as their reasons for voting not guilty. Even though no actual evidence was provided for either the horrible accident or molestation of Casey.

 

[Duckley]

After hearing some of the reasons the jurors found her not guilty - my anger has increased. There needs to be some way to hold jury accountable when the do not deliberate in a proper and productive way.
If they do not understand their task then their deliberations need to be moniored by a neutral legal panel who can explain to them the acts of law. OML

 

[Hisimage]

So the jurors knew this was a high profile case but I wonder if they were aware when they were working or deliberating how many people would feel this way. I remember the judge warned them or asked if they felt they could make their decision and still be able to go back to work and families and face them. Most of the jurors or all said yes, I have no problem.

I wonder if they expected this big of outrage by the public? I mean, people not just us are furious. So what were they thinking when they came back with these weak verdicts? I just can't get over it still. Especially, I wonder if they are now seeing the Felon KC the way we all have and what they think now? Do you think they are regretting not taking more time? I really want to know. I would feel so much better if they felt at least a little bad about not taking more time. Or, if those who originally said guilt wish they would have stayed....

 

[cluciano63]

After hearing some of the reasons the jurors found her not guilty - my anger has increased. There needs to be some way to hold jury accountable when the do not deliberate in a proper and productive way.
If they do not understand their task then their deliberations need to be moniored by a neutral legal panel who can explain to them the acts of law. OML

Accountable in what way? Just curious, what would have done to them? If they thought they understood their duty and did what they thought was their best, what is their "crime"? If they all were seeing things the same way fairly quickly, they probably felt they must be doing it right, IMO.

 

[stg]

They don't feel bad. They just wanted to be done and go home, IMO. I was the jury foreman in a criminal trial two years ago, and all one of the jurors was worried about in deliberations was the fact she was supposed to go shopping with her husband that afternoon and wanted to get done. Civic duty means little to some. But, even we asked to watch a police video twice more and requested the legal definition of a word over 3 hours of deliberating, and ours wasn't even a murder case. This jury moved too fast.

 

[Hisimage]

I don't know -- I guess I am just way to serious to let something like that go... anything really. I've been called to jury duty before and every-single-time.. I've taken it serious whether it is a car accident or along a bigger event I'm gonna do my job.

 

[TexasLori]

Accountable in what way? Just curious, what would have done to them? If they thought they understood their duty and did what they thought was their best, what is their "crime"? If they all were seeing things the same way fairly quickly, they probably felt they must be doing it right, IMO.

If they thought they understood then they were not paying attention when Judge Perry read the instructions. We know they blatantly lied to him each time he asked them if they had heeded his previous admonitions.

 

[Solange82200]

I guess in theory it sounds good,but in reality,no I dont really think that being out in the weather for six mounth would wash any discoloration from decomposition that would surely stain the tape. At the very least the fiber strings that were left. I dunno justt something I thought about.

Have you ever seen tape after being on decomposing body??? How would you even pretend to know what would or wouldn't happen? Crazy thought here... but maybe we should just listen to the experts, the people who have seen this kind of thing before and said that the tape having no dna or stain did not mean it wasnt on her mouth?

 

[SaltyTexan]

Since I'm pretty sure the jurors don't read books or newspapers, and at least one does not own a computer, I hope there is a well done special on TV about how wrong they jury got it.

They do watch TV right?

Please let it be someone really good, and let them compare the evidence they received and all the other evidence that was considered to "prejudicial" so that they have no doubt that they made a mistake.

I have been summoned for jury duty before, but never picked. Next time, I will act stupider so that maybe I will be picked and at least there will be someone who actually gives a rats a_____ about whatever.

 

[cluciano63]

If they thought they understood then they were not paying attention when Judge Perry read the instructions. We know they blatantly lied to him each time he asked them if they had heeded his previous admonitions.

They may have been extremely lazy and bored, for all I know...I am just not sure how they can be held accountable. Even JA is saying that every case is basically at risk for the jury not seeing the evidence or returning a verdict opposite of what is expected. It is a part of the process. I doubt many verdicts have received the scrutiny this one has. I still don't know what type of punishment anyone would like or expect these jurors to receive?

 

[Boston]

It kills me to read that because if she'd actually taken the time to listen to and/or look through the testimony and evidence, she would have seen that Sandra Osborne testified that Yuri Melich asked her (in August of 2008, mind you) to check if chloroform was searched for on the Anthonys' computer. There's no reason why he'd ask her to search specifically for chloroform if they hadn't already found the "shockingly high" levels of chloroform in the trunk.

I agree.....She just brushed of the Chloroform evidence in the Trunk based on her own Speculation. They are not supposed to deliberate by coming up with their own wild theories...they are supposed to look at the evidence.

 

[SaltyTexan]

You are preaching to the choir. I 100% agree.

Especially this part: If the defendant had been a man and the victim his wife, given the exact same circumstances the jury would have convicted him of 1st degree murder in the blink of an eye.

There isn't a doubt in my mind about that. We may have the right to vote, but just like in the days of Lizzie Borden, there are a lot of people out there who are not willing to give women all the credit they deserve. The jury decision is sexism at its WORST.

Lets give credit where credit is due.

75% of all children murdered are killed by ONE or both of their PARENTS. MORE MOMS than dads killed their kids in 2009.( http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf See page 56.)

Killer Moms (and the list is incomplete):

Mary Beth Tinning got 20 years to life for killing her children: Barbara, Joseph, Jennifer, Timothy, Nathan, Michael, Mary, Jonathan & Tami Tinning

Charlene Wise was sentenced to 28 years for killing her daughter Charnee Wise

Susan Smith - sentenced to life for the death of her sons, Michael & Alexander Smith

Mona Volgares - convicted of inv. manslaughter for the murder of her daughter, Seleana

Waneta Hoyt - 75 years to life (died in prison of cancer) for killing her children, Eric, James, Julie, Molly & Noah Hoyt

Latonda Shannon killed her daughter, Beaunca Jones

Jones McLaughlin - 7 to 10 years prison plus 5 years probation for killing her adopted son, Cory McLaughlin

Lillian Meegan - 18 years for killing her daughter, Francine Meegan:

Linda Solomon killed her daughter, Chelsea Solomon: Mother

Carla Lockwood - 15 years to life for killing her daughter, Nadine

Renee Polreis - sentenced to 22 years for killing her adopted son, David Polreis

Jessica Padron sentenced to 24 years for killing her daughter Yvonne

Amy Ivy - 40 years for killing her daughter, Shauntraniece Ivy: Mother

Pauline Zile - life for killing her daughter, Christina Holt

Awilda Lopez - 15 years to life for killing her daughter, Elisa Izquierdo

Mother Angelic Burney - 12 to 25 years for killing her daughter, Amy Burney

Amy Burney's Grandmother Rosa Wilkerson was also sentenced as an accomplice

Jocelyn Bennett - sentenced to life for killing Daytwon Bennett

Elizabeth Leftwich Jessie - 50 years for killing her daughter, Brenda Ann Leftwich

Claudette Kibble - 3 life terms (consecutive, I believe) for killing her children

Donna Bennett - 35 years for killing her son, Greyson L. Bennett

Latisha McGee killed her child, Dessiah McGee

Kristy Carter - indicted on capital murder charges for killing her daughter, Amber Lynn (she committed suicide before the case came to trial)

Darlene Fontenette Huff killed Jaevon Huff


Melissa Drexler - 15 years for killing Baby Boy Drexler

Elizabeth Faber killed Baby Boy Faber

Traci Elizabeth Kaufman killed her daughter Rebecca Meza

Marybeth Davis - life without parole plus up to 18 years for killing her daughter, Tegan Davis

Evelyn Kay Miller - 15 years to life for killing her foster child, Kameron Demery

Mildred Irving - 40 years for killing her child, Desi Irving

Jennie Bain Ducker - 18 years killed her sons, Devin & Dustin Bain Ducker

Markele Peck killed her daughter, Samantha Alena

Isabelle Blain killed her daughter, Christina Blain

Emily Jane Hopkins killed her children Clayton & Olivia Hopkins and then killed herself

Judy Booty killed her son, Tyler Booty

Renee Heikamp killed her son, Jordan Heikamp, the judge dismissed the case

Krista Cline killed her daughter, Alexis Cline

Jennifer Pyles- sentenced to 2 years for killing Baby Girl Pyles

Elise Ledvina - insanity, institutionalized indefinitely for killing her son, John Ledvina

Annette Giancola killed her children, Jonathan & Rebecca Giancola

Kristie Hackett - seven years for killing her daughter, Jessica Hackett

Roselere Wilkenson - 30 years for the murder of her stepdaughter, Kendia Lockhart

Dorothy Jean Livingston sentenced to life for killing her foster daughter, China Marie Davis

Tanya Hudson - 4 years for killing Baby Girl Hudson

Mary Perkins killed her adopted daughter Angel Perkins

Mary Helen Bernal - 2.5 years for killing her son, William Patrick Moore Jr

Maxine Harrhy killed her daughter, Nadine Harrhy

Debbie Ann Lowe - two concurrent sentences, 17 years to life for killing her children, Ebony Whitfield & Myisha Tolbert

Darlie Routier is sentenced to death for killing her sons, Devon & Damon Routier

Melissa Evans - 3 to 9 years for killing Rayvon Evans: Mother

Lucretia Johnson Fletcher - 1 year sentence for killing her son, Alexander Fletcher

Rebecca Ramirez - 6 years for killing her son, Daniel Ramirez

Denise Solero - NO TIME in exchange for testimony against her boyfriend
Luis Santiago - 6 to 19 years for the death of her son, Justina Morales

Tamachies Krider - Life for killing her child, Demallon Krider

Helen Rose Brewer - 3 to 9 years for killing her daughter, Jacqueline Brewer (Janes)

Charita Curry helped her husband kill her stepdaugher, Makala Black

Shantela Smith - probation ONLY for killing Baby Girl Smith

Summer McKee killed Baby Girl McKee

Mother Ana Maria Cardona - death for killing her son Lazaro Figueroa:

Mary C. Leggate killed Baby Girl Leggate

Kimberly Martin killed her children, Dustin & Brandy Martin

Gabriela Hernandez - 11 year sentences for killing her son, Joselin Hernandez

Maria Del Carmen Elizabeth Paz - probation ONLY for killing foster child, Julio Gonzalez


Linda Aube - 8 to 20 years for killing her son, Mason Aube

Jennifer Bauer and her boyfriend killed their son, Michael Noah Snyder:

Foster mother Patricia Coker killed Caprice Reid

Chrisandra Scott - pending trial for killing her daughter, Nia Scott

Angela Hope Miller killed her adopted son, Jacob Miller
-
Sylvia Martinez - murder/suicide after killing her children Abigal & Alex Gil

Deborah Elizabeth Reynolds - 15 years sentence for killing her daughter,
Breean Spickard; 2 other women were also convicted for the murder: Julia Ann Olivas - 26 years to life & Ester Rebecca Griggs - 26 years to life

Linda Brisport killed her foster child Carlos Winbush

Jamie James was sentenced to 32 years for killing her child, Cody Belle-Starr James

Evonne Rodriquez - not guilty by reason of insanity for killing her son, Ramiro Isabel Valdez Jr

Gloria Gross - 5 to 15 years sentence for killing her daughter, Tonya Gross Daniels

Veroncia Gonzalez - death sentence for killing her niece, Genny Rojas

Kelly Blake killed her children, Ramon Fausto & Vanessa Blake

Edith Agundez Acre - sentenced to 25 years to life for killing her son, Cervantes

Jannifer Butler - sentenced to 21 years, no parole for killing Baby Boy Butler

Megan K. Hogg killed her children, Antoniette Marden, Angelique Roberts & Alexandra Hogg

Tammy Alicia Holycross - 7 years to life, and 15 years to life sentence for killing her daughter, Adrian Conway

Tracy Ann Irwin - life without parole for killing son, Christopher Gardner:

Sharon Cygnarowicz - up to 4 years for killing Baby Boy Cygnarowicz

Barbara Briggs sentenced to 25 years for killing her grandson, Keith Sims

Annie Pollard sentenced to 13 years for killing her son, Lamar Pollard

Kimberly Ann McVay - 10 years probation ONLY for killing her son, Robert Allen Callaways

Nellie Nixon - 5 years probation ONLY for killing her daughter, Stephanie Nicole Nixon

Jessica Blough - up to 10 years sentence for killing daughter, Mercedes Blough: Mother

Melissa Gunderson - 18 years probation ONLY for killing daughter, Madison Gunderson

Gloria Gross - 5 to 15 years for killing daughter, Tonya Daniels

Sonya Forrest - murder/suicide killed daughter, Autumn Forrest

Tammy Miller killed her daughter, Shammy Miller
-
Sharon Denise Alley - 36 years for killing her daughter, Brooke Alley

Rachael Gonzalez killed her children, Dianna & Alina Gonzalez
-
Tina Reid killed her children, Veronica, Amanda & Timothy Reid and then committed suicide


Audrey Iacona - 8 years (probably to be reduced to 3 years) for killing Baby Boy Iacona

Katrina Vincent - 6 years for killing daughter,Tavanisha Brooks

Michelle Tate killed her daughter Diamond D. Shaw

Violeta Burgos (not mother) - 60 years, already free for killing Eleticia Asbury: Mother

Amanda Wallace - suicide while in prison (awaiting trial?) for killing son, Joseph Wallace

Farinoosh "Roya" Dalili - 1 year house arrest, 5 years probation for killing child, Nagen Natalie Dalili

Barbara Durham - 20 years for assisting her husband Glenn kill her stepson, Clayton Durham

Joan Tribblet killed child, Onowanique Tribblet: Mother

Nancy Koerner - two concurrent sentences of 10 years each for killing son, Gregory Wayne Koerner

Malke Pinter killed child, Doyna Pinter

Elizabeth Feltman - insanity, not guilty for killing her children, Benjamin & Moriah Feltman


Mary E. Utley - 75 years for killing her daughter, Rita Denise Fisher:

Sandi Nieves - death sentence for killing her children, Nikolet, Raschell, Kristl & Jaqlene Nieves

Deborah Thompson - 18 years, suspended after 8 years for killing her daughter, Christina Noelani Candino

Dora Luz Buenrostro - death sentence for killing her children, Susanna, Vincente & Deidra Buenrostro

Christina Riggs - death (executed) for killing her children, Justin & Shelby Riggs

Maria Sabrina Borajas killed her child, Marisela Borajas
-
Michelle Tharp - death sentence for killing her daughter, Tausha Lanham

Carolyn Young sentenced to death for killing her grandchildren, Darrin & Dail-Zshia Torres

Margarie Davis - 9 years for killing her son Ronneil Rodgers Jr

Lois Jurgens - life for killing her adopted son Dennis Jurgens

Miriam Sanchez killed her daughter Storm Sanchez

Erika Arroyo killed her child, Armando Villalobos

Khoua Her - 50 years for killing her children, Koua Eai, Samson, Nali, Tang Lung, A-ee & Tang Kee Her

Paula Sims - life without parole for killing her daughters, Lorelie & Heather Sims

Heidi Sonnenberg - half way house ONLY for killing Baby Girl Sonnenberg

Miguellina Estevez - suicide after killing her children, Franklin, Frankelly & Fabian Estevez

Irina Tchouprina killed her daugher, Theodora Scerba

Andrea Blue - 1 to 2 years for killing son, Sigmund Porter

Pecynthia Bradley - 11 years for killing daughter, Ashley Smithson

Synthia Lynne Caamano - murder/suicide after killing daughers, Rachel & Michelle Caamano

Dianna Meeks - 4 years for killing child, Dontory Jordan

Lorrie Lin Hood - life without parole for killing daugher, Ashlea Nicole Hood

Tanya Jo Yablonsky - 3.5 years propbation ONLY for killing daughter, Cassandra Rose Yablonsky

Miranda Shaw - murder/suicide - killed children, Valencia, Willie & Warren Shaw

Maria Rivera killed daugher Sarah Rivera

Stella Kiser - life for killing daughter, Tesslynn O'Cul

Tammy Dube killed daugher Baby Girl Dube

Theresa R. Turner - no charge, in spite of confession for killing child, Jordan Turner

Brenda L. Schaffer - 2.5 to 5 years for killing son, Joseph A. Arroyo

Lisa Price killed foster child Jacqueline Veney

Teresa Nelson killed daughter Saliyah Nelson


Brenda Maxey - insanity, unfit to stand trial for the murder of dauther, Keisha Maxey

Mary Weekly - 40 years for killing son, Jermaine Weekly

Lillie Easter - life for killing foster child, Coreese Goldman

Linda Hood - 30 years for killing daughter Michele Hood

Renee Taylor - 50 years for killing daughter, Janisa Taylor

Aeuria Bermudez - 25 years for killing her daughter, Nancy Bermudez

Bridget Cochran - 50 years for killing her daughter, Shakita Cochran

Alicia Abraham - life for killing her daughter, Lattie McGee

Shelia Smith - 60 years in prison for killing her son, Quinten Irby

Tina Marie Cornelius - 60 years for killing her children, Amanda Lee Miller & Dominick Cornelius

Barbara Ann Wyrzykowski killed her children, Mark, Sarah, Luke, Jess & Jade [Wyrzykowski] and then killed herself

Marianne Biancuzzo - 1 year plus 3 years probation for killing Baby Girl Biancuzzo

Marilyn Lemak - life without parole for killing her children, Nicholas, Emily & Thomas Lemak

Rosa Wilkerson 1 granddaughter poisoned, smothered
Stella Williamson 5 infants, presumably hers
Elizabeth Wilson 2 children
Charlene Wise 1 daughter starvation, neglect
Martha Woods 7 children (hers and others) suffocation
Dora Wright 1 stepdaughter
Barbara Ann Wyrzykowski 5 sons/daughters carbon monoxide
Andrea Yates 5 children (hers) drowned
Caroline Young 2 grandson 6, granddaughter 4 stabbed
Janice Young 2 1 children (hers) plus self shot (murder/suicide)
Maggie Young 5 children (hers) drowned​

This is incredibly depressing, and it doesn't even count the questionable accidents. I just want to cry for all these children. I hope we can do better.

 

[Boston]

By the way, did <modsnip> Juror #2 offer any theories as to how this 2 1/2 year old child committed suicide in this manner??

She also claimed that It's hard to convict somebody of Murder when you don't know "Why, Where, When & How" Caylee was murdered

None of these are required for a conviction.

A Murder is a Murder & while it would be helpful to Know Why, Where, When & How All the Jury needed to know was the "Who" & that "Who" could only have been Casey..

There was no evidence of an accident

Medical Examiner's report

Manner of Death = Homicide

I guess the Jury ignored that fact also

 

[SCWldneart]

And I have lost all respect for Dr. Baden--he is now the mouthpiece for LKB IMHO

ITA! I used to have so much respect for him but I lost it all when he backtracked on what he said about the hair-banding. He was the first one I ever heard explain what it was and the significance of the banding. He was all in favor of it initially, then later talked about it like it was 'junk science". Extremely disappointing.

 

[Leah0107]

It's probably been said before but the reason it is so hard to accept this verdict and the jury's decision is that millions of people saw and heard the same evidence that the jurors did and the majority came to a different conclusion. If this had been a closed trial we, the people, would have no validity in questioning the jurors' decision. But we did and therefore, we are. In hindsight, my biggest fear was a mistrial and that this case would have to be tried again. 'If only' one of those many motions for mistrial would have been granted....

 

[com n sense]

They may have been extremely lazy and bored, for all I know...I am just not sure how they can be held accountable. Even JA is saying that every case is basically at risk for the jury not seeing the evidence or returning a verdict opposite of what is expected. It is a part of the process. I doubt many verdicts have received the scrutiny this one has. I still don't know what type of punishment anyone would like or expect these jurors to receive?

I understand it being a risk but a <modsnip> is being let back out into society.
I have been brain storming about this case since the vertict & I let my mind go into the depths of evil, the way I believe KC's mind is.
I began to think that maybe, just maybe we can't get to the whole truth because Caylee's murder wasn't the beginning of this circus.
It's obvious G & C went into cover up mode immediately when they got the car. Whay would that be? Could it be because they were use to going into cover up mode for many illigal things Casey has done?
It's almost like a Mophia family. Everyone has their part, everyone has their job. KC is the one that does the unspeakable crime, Cindy cleans it up & George gets rid of the evidence . Lee is always told to just let it go.
Lee also asked Casey in a jail video if this was like the last time?
If all this evil was true they could never really tell anyone the truth about what happened to Caylee, because they have been covering Caseys evil deeds forever. They would all be guilty of the crimes KC has committed.



Oh dear, I do apoligize. I didn't even think of that as name calling.