Discuss..Description of PI video by legal analyst

[SuziQ]

So what it really boils down to is: One PI out PI-ed the lead PI by playing a shell game of sorts with the cameras.

Lol, yes!

 

[Hot Dogs]

It was as if he wanted to film the actual discovery of her body!

Absolutely! He went went with purpose and forethought.

I can see two theories here in stark contrast.

1) JH wanted a video showing the discovery of Caylee's body.
2) JH wanted a video showing the non-discovery of Caylee's body.

 

[SuziQ]

Maybe JB didn't want the discovery filmed but DC decided it's every man for himself. JMO.

Good point. I'm reminded though about JB's hissy fit about bring his laptop into the jail. Maybe he was hoping KC could view the footage and give better directions? That would be awfully risky though.

 

[TxLady2]

Why does anyone have the idea that Casey would have any remorse and tell anyone where Caylee's remains were? She would have to know that would hurt her case, once the remains were found. I can't see that.

 

[nursebeeme]

This is just my take on this thing and questions I have...

November 8ish JH tells Tim Miller searcher of a tip to that wooded area (exact tip not released but msm alluded that it was based off of a tip that Casey's car had been seen pulled up in that area some time in June). November 15 and 16ish DC tells JH (per Hoover of course) to get out to the area they are going to find Caylee's remains and that she is dead and Hoover tapes DC digging with shovels, probing with rods, looking for specific landmarks like the stones, cutting open black trash bags, etc. Nothing is found there (and I am assuming the water level where the remains were actually found about four weeks later was still high... as it had only been around 10 days that the water was down before Kronk found her..)

All that being said... could the PIs have been privy to any of the Kronk tips that were called in or to the tips called into the Caylee number that the 911 operator directed Kronk to call? Could Kronk have also called in his tip to the number that the Anthony's had put out there that circumvented LE... could the PIs have gotten a tip to that area that way? And the alleged car sighting tip... I wonder when that tip came in to these PIs..

What is even stranger to me is Tim Miller's comment that Hoover had come out to the search and said that the Anthony's must not know he was out there or he could lose his job as security for them but wanted that wooded area searched because of the "car sighting" tip.

It seems to me that Hoover was not as privy to what DC knew as insider knowledge but that over time he was becoming more and more suspicious until he came forward with all he had witnessed including his own tape of DC probing around with shovels and rods in a treasure hunt/x marks the spot sort of way. I am sure Hoover had a lot more to say to LE about the behavior of DC then we know about yet.

I think that DC was working with Casey via Baez and LA. He was looking for the body in a specific location which happened to still be under water partially on nov 15ish time frame. For two more weeks the water level was up. Ten days after the water goes down Kronk finds Caylee in that same area. I do not think Kronk had any connection to this... I think he saw something funny... and went back when the water went down.

Thing is, I think that if Kronk had not found Caylee I think that DC would have. I think he would have continued with his shovels and probes and rods in that area until he found what he KNEW was there... What I do not yet understand is what he would have done once he found what he was looking for.... Could he have been video taping himself searching so that once he found what he knew was there and called LE he would have documentation that he did nothing wrong while searching the area?

Biggest question to me... if it was Baez passing on info to DC... what was his angle in finding the body? Could it have been LA passing this info on to DC (remember the letters casey was supposed to have sent out via her atty)? Either way, I just do not see what is to be gained by DC looking for a body in such a pinpoint and hush hush way. Something smells in tuna town and it aint the hoagie rolls!

Sorry for the long post peeps!

 

[natsound]

In the hearings thread, sleuther's could hear a discussion going on while the judge stepped out of the room. IIRC, someone (the SA's?) said DC was caught in a lie and thought the videos were destroyed. That DC didn't know hoover had a second camera. That's why DC was initially so smug and threatening to sue JH. DC was conned by a con. ha!

IMO, when DC wasn't looking. Hoover put one camera in his pocket and pulled out another one and filmed the ten minute video he has.

Is there any raw video of the hearing available to watch? I watched some of it streamed live. I'd love to hear this conversation. Right now, I'm considering this rumor because it's "someone said that he heard....". Was it inadvertently picked up by a microphone or something?

 

[amethyst221]

Why does anyone have the idea that Casey would have any remorse and tell anyone where Caylee's remains were? She would have to know that would hurt her case, once the remains were found. I can't see that.

I don't think, if she told, she had any remorse or told anyone so they could suddenly find Caylee's remains and reveal it to the general public. Hypothetically, she could have told someone she was close to in a weak moment, or in making decisions about the case, whether to give up the location in exchange for a plea, or to assess the likelihood of the remains ever being found, or to find out their current state, or fill in the blank with possible better or worse stuff. I'm not saying what happened, but I can conceive of hypothetical reasons, especially if you expected the information would be kept totally confidential.

 

[nursebeeme]

Is there any raw video of the hearing available to watch? I watched some of it streamed live. I'd love to hear this conversation. Right now, I'm considering this rumor because it's "someone said that he heard....". Was it inadvertently picked up by a microphone or something?

I believe SuziQ meant that wsers heard it and discussed it while watching live and it is in the thread on it. However, if you want to go back and rewatch it here is a place you can watch again http://www.ustream.tv/search/recorded/all/torbenmiller/most_views/1 there are also lots of jvm and ng shows up there. Just hover over the clip and it will describe which clip is which.

 

[SuziQ]

Here is the post regarding the second camera:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3147688&postcount=634

Yesterday, 02:31 PM
jusdafacts

Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5


So here is what I transcribed starting at 18:26
http://www.wftv.com/video/18440731/index.html

"Casey was saying, … Casey said that everything Hoover said was a lie because he thought that the tapes had all been erased and he didn’t know that he had a second camera and didn’t realize that something happened (too garbled to make out), and he recorded on the second camera and Hoover didn’t realize until December that he’s got this whole (pause) Casey’s already called him a liar and said this never happened that this whole thing is ….. "

Then the judge walks in….

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Good point. I'm reminded though about JB's hissy fit about bring his laptop into the jail. Maybe he was hoping KC could view the footage and give better directions? That would be awfully risky though.

Good point but not all that risky, because client attorney priviledge and all, not taped, so he could show her anything on the laptop and they could discuss it 'till the cows come home....if it had been allowed that is. Was DC in JB's employ at this time?

 

[natsound]

I believe SuziQ meant that wsers heard it and discussed it while watching live and it is in the thread on it. However, if you want to go back and rewatch it here is a place you can watch again http://www.ustream.tv/search/recorded/all/torbenmiller/most_views/1 there are also lots of jvm and ng shows up there. Just hover over the clip and it will describe which clip is which.

:blowkiss: Thank you.

 

[nursebeeme]

Here is the post regarding the second camera:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3147688&postcount=634

Yesterday, 02:31 PM
jusdafacts

Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5


So here is what I transcribed starting at 18:26
http://www.wftv.com/video/18440731/index.html

"Casey was saying, … Casey said that everything Hoover said was a lie because he thought that the tapes had all been erased and he didn’t know that he had a second camera and didn’t realize that something happened (too garbled to make out), and he recorded on the second camera and Hoover didn’t realize until December that he’s got this whole (pause) Casey’s already called him a liar and said this never happened that this whole thing is ….. "

Then the judge walks in….

sorry... had to bold and big it peeps! Couldn't help it! Who is the liar? LOL.. So glad Hoover had that video. We all know who the real liar is...

And thanks Q for that transcription!!!:blowkiss:

 

[SuziQ]

Nursebeeme, that's a good synopsis. What I can't get past is if DC wanted to bring Caylee home, why not call LE to begin with? That really bothers me.

 

[amethyst221]

The use of headphones is suggested.

 

[jerchers]

Yes! Which is why JB was so worried about LE questioning DC. IMO, JB can't admit he rehired DC to search that spot and use attorney client priviledge, because that would be too damning and JB would have too many questions to answer.

JB wanted Caylee body found. The bigger the case the more he could cash in. Kc could have told him-he passed it on-now he can do nothing- that would be the end of his day as as lawyer-Kc has such an ego she thinks jb loves her. She getten what she deserves JB

 

[Hot Dogs]

Nothing is found there (and I am assuming the water level where the remains were actually found about four weeks later was still high... as it had only been around 10 days that the water was down before Kronk found her..)...

He was looking for the body in a specific location which happened to still be under water partially on nov 15ish time frame. For two more weeks the water level was up. Ten days after the water goes down Kronk finds Caylee in that same area. I do not think Kronk had any connection to this... I think he saw something funny... and went back when the water went down.

My comment here is just about the water. I don't think it has been established as fact, nor is there good reason to assume, that Caylee's remains were covered by water in mid-November (when JH was there) and in the weeks prior to Dec. 11.

The reason this matters is because some people are saying that the remains were un-discoverable because of water.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

But Shaeffer never said that the video looked odd. It would show constant stop/start or the appearance of being shoved into a pocket.

I have a video surveillance camera which is hooked through a button hole is my shirt or coat and takes running videos. I am sure he has something like that, particularly if he was wanting to do it without it being known to DC.

I have mine because I need/want to video at times searching the terrain and can't have my hands tied up with a camera, but I do know they are used a lot of undetected filming.

 

[SuziQ]

Good point but not all that risky, because client attorney priviledge and all, not taped, so he could show her anything on the laptop and they could discuss it 'till the cows come home....if it had been allowed that is. Was DC in JB's employ at this time?

If he was, JB would be crazy to admit to it. It would be too incriminating and point to JB being behind the search to begin with. So JB's only option was to ask to somehow control what the detectives ask DC.

 

[BeanE]

Do you think it could be that Baez & Casey were trying to make a plea deal for the location of Caylee's body, and LE said they had one and only one chance to tell the truth of Caylee's location, and Baez, knowing what a liar Casey is, sent Dominic to verify the location?

Maybe they were still going to try to verify the location to proceed with a plea deal, when unexpectedly, along comes the MR and finds Caylee's body. This would make Casey's reaction of "I can't believe this is happening" make perfect sense - there went her plea deal, and would be something I can believe would make her have an anxiety attack and need a sedative.

Just some thoughts. What do you all think?

 

[amysmom]

Two days that we know of.

How many days was he out there alone, poking around and looking for rock arrangements?

From Hoover to his lawyer to KB he (Casey) was out there searching alone 2 days (maybe more) after the days with Hoover..