the judge was never told he was there, though. Frank's presence was never put into evidence.
wow!! :shame:
the judge was never told he was there, though. Frank's presence was never put into evidence.
I just read this article.
Anette Stipp was referring to Chiziweni?! Did he initially said that he heard a woman screaming then retracted that statement later?! Or was she referring to a female domestic worker?
It's confusing because the article made reference to her husband's statement regarding Chiziweni..then talked about Anette's statement regarding "THE" domestic worker giving the impression that she was also talking about Chiziweni..
Most of you are way more knowledgeable about this case than me..so who was she talking about?
BIB
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html
Mrs Stipp was talking about her own employee, not Frank.
I'm reading through Judge Masipa's judgement again, I'm a glutton for punishment..... so this really irks me...
1. At the time of the incident there was no one else in the accuseds
house except the accused and the deceased. Therefore it could only
have been one of them who screamed or cried out loud.
Frank Chiziweni was sleeping on the premises, I can't understand why J Masipa discounts him. Does not compute. No matter he claims to have heard and seen nothing, he has to be accounted for otherwise it's an misrepresentation of the facts of that night, so what else is missing? It looks to be a sham, smoke and mirrors. :banghead: JMO
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/140915OPJudgment.pdf
The judge was never told he was there, though. Frank's presence was never put into evidence.
Well, not only was Frank on the premises .. but Reeva herself was still actually alive before she was shot, so quite how Masipa can say that 'at the time of the incident there was no-one else in the accused's house except for the accused and the deceased. Therefore it could only have been one of them who screamed or cried out loud.' What an absolute load of nonsense .. Reeva was alive in that house, and she was also more than capable of screaming, at the time of the incident. What planet is that judge on, for god's sake?
The judge was never told he was there, though. Frank's presence was never put into evidence.
True.
Would it have mattered, imo, no.
We've witnessed what was important to J Masipa. OP prayed to god and sobbed and puked = innocent.
Barry Roux does mention him, for some reason J Masipa and her assessors didn't take note.
Carice Stander mentions Frank was at the crime scene outside OP's house when she drove up. Roux and Nel never went any further into that line of questioning.
On the witness list, Frank is number 10 and his address is listed as OP's address.
Curiously, Monday's court hearing also witnessed the first mention of Pistorius' housekeeper, who was in the athlete's house on the night Steenkamp was shot.
Frank Chiziweni, who is from Malawi, is understood to have been asleep in his quarters next to the kitchen, the Telegraph reports this morning. Giving evidence for the defence on Monday, Carice Viljoen was the first person to refer to Chiziweni whom she mentioned only by his first name saying that when she arrived at Pistorius' house, Frank was standing in the road.
Chiziweni is understood to have told police he heard nothing at all. It does seem surprising that this is the first time the presence of another person in the house has been raised during this trial, particularly given the testimony given by various neighbours who were presumably further away about the shouts, screams and shots they say they heard.
The Telegraph reports Barry Roux, Pistorius's lead defence counsel, saying he would not be calling Chiziweni to give evidence: He says he was asleep. Were not going to be calling him.
Chiziweni was listed as a potential state witness, but was not called by the prosecution either.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/06/oscar-pistorius-trial-murder-reeva-steenkamp-6-may
Quick question and I apologize if this has been asked already.
I've read two recent articles that are interviews with Barry Steenkamp, Reeva's father.
He mentions that he and Reeva's mom believe there is more to the story that wasn't discussed in court.
He also said if Oscar is watching (to the interview being given) then he'll know what he's talking about.
What does Barry know???
"but things did happen, and things happened there that haven't been brought up, I know that," said Barry."
"I think there was more to the whole story coming up to the actual shooting, the killing. If he's watching, he'll know what I'm talking about."
Articles I'm referring to:
1) http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/off-the...ther-questions-pistoriuss-version_178621.html
2) http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...pistorius-trial-there-is-still-a-missing-link
But Junebug, there is something objective: Oscar admits to killing Reeva. This isn't a case in which we're not sure who the killer was and just picked on the significant other - we KNOW that OP shot her.
There are other things we know as well. We know that Reeva had her cellphone with her in the bathroom. We know that she was dressed. We know that she had remarked on problems in their relationship in the past.
If the only thing this case had going for it was the belief that OP couldn't possibly have screamed like a woman, I would agree with you that this verdict was correct. But it isn't.
Any time one person kills another past all possibility of hiding his involvement, of course he is going to make up a story for why he is justified. What other alternative would he have? Those justifications are necessarily going to rest heavily on the accused's state of mind: if he can't say it was a total accident, either he'll claim to have acted in self-defense, or to have not been in his right mind at the time (OP tried a little bit of both). Obviously, we can't read OP's mind to "prove" that he is lying, but neither are we compelled to accept every irrational exculpatory fantasy simply because OP asserted it.
If we did, there would be almost no way to convict someone of murder in domestic violence cases. All the accused would ever have to do was say "I was sleepwalking," or "I thought she was a burglar" or "I believed that the gun was was a toy" and we would have to accept it without question, just because there is no way of absolutely establishing a person's subjective state of mind.
Temper
Gun lover
Alcohol issues
Liar
Womanizer / cheater
Jealous
Sore loser
Perfectionist
Insomniac*
Control freak
Aggressive
Narcissistic
Entitlement issues
History of conflict / assault / arrest / accidents
As you mention above, the prosecution were not required to pin the murder on an individual. This by nature should make the prosecutions task easier.
Their task didn't become easier in this trial, as they couldn't find sufficient incriminating flaws in the version of the accused.
Now, common sense tells us that since the best legal heads in the country of SA have spent countless months, weeks and hours on this case, and still could not provide enough weight of evidence to support their charge, only a few conclusions can be drawn :-
1. The prosecution team were not very good.
2. The judge was inexperienced and naive.
3. The prosecution overcharged their case.
4. The version of the accused could well be reasonably possibly true.
I struggle to believe that the prosecution team were not competent, and I know from Masipa's past that she is certainly not inexperienced or naive.
I agree Jay-Jay..
Masipa said that the screams occurred AFTER Reeva was already shot and incapable of screaming...she totally ignored the witnesses who heard a woman screaming! She ignored everything that points to Pistorius being guilty..
As you mention above, the prosecution were not required to pin the murder on an individual. This by nature should make the prosecutions task easier.
Their task didn't become easier in this trial, as they couldn't find sufficient incriminating flaws in the version of the accused.
Now, common sense tells us that since the best legal heads in the country of SA have spent countless months, weeks and hours on this case, and still could not provide enough weight of evidence to support their charge, only a few conclusions can be drawn :-
1. The prosecution team were not very good.
2. The judge was inexperienced and naive.
3. The prosecution overcharged their case.
4. The version of the accused could well be reasonably possibly true.
I struggle to believe that the prosecution team were not competent, and I know from Masipa's past that she is certainly not inexperienced or naive.
I'm not sure where this presumption that Masipa is one to fall for court dramatics has come from? There's plenty of information that clearly shows the absolute opposite during her long career, indicating that a judge of her calibre isn't the slightest bit interested in anything of this nature. It rather demeans the professionalism of such people to suggest that something so petty would influence her verdict.
BIR - Did Roux actually say that in court? It sounds more like an answer given in response to a question from a reporter.
As you mention above, the prosecution were not required to pin the murder on an individual. This by nature should make the prosecutions task easier.
Their task didn't become easier in this trial, as they couldn't find sufficient incriminating flaws in the version of the accused.
Now, common sense tells us that since the best legal heads in the country of SA have spent countless months, weeks and hours on this case, and still could not provide enough weight of evidence to support their charge, only a few conclusions can be drawn :-
1. The prosecution team were not very good.
2. The judge was inexperienced and naive.
3. The prosecution overcharged their case.
4. The version of the accused could well be reasonably possibly true.
I struggle to believe that the prosecution team were not competent, and I know from Masipa's past that she is certainly not inexperienced or naive.