Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

[wb180]

No one?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Man-who-shot-wife-in-error-can-sympathise-with-Oscar-20140407

Haha, still bringing this up like this somehow backs up the minority case?! Yes, emotionally, it feels the same I know, but for the more critical analysis people, the facts and arguments of this case are different to the facts and arguments presented in OP case.

 

[JudgeJudi]

For all you folk in the UK, there's a documentary on tonight, 17 Sept, on Sky Sports 9.30-10.30 Pistorius: The Full Story.

Well we know for a fact it won't be the full story because there are only 2 living people who know that, OP and Uncle Arnold. If I hear Arnold say that one more time I'm going to scream.

 

[pandax81]

Not to sound childish, but isn't that what I said? Determimed to completely understand this so tell me where I went wrong!

Well, if I read your very first point, this isn't what you said. You do not distinguish between hitting the target and missing the target. You therefore erroneously say if you hit the target and it turns out to be someone else, it is now a valid defence against murder. You further erroneously say for it to be otherwise involves a legal transfer of intent. This leads you to erroneously conclude that there has been a change in the law on this regard and in the past this wasn't a valid defence because of the use of legal transfer of intent: My post says the opposite for all 3 of these things.

- If I want to kill A but kill B instead by mistake, then this in the past wasn't a valid defence against murder as the intent to kill is being transferred from one person to another ("transfer of intent"). This though is no longer the case UNLESS if when B dies instead of A there was at least a small % chance that when I went out to kill A there was a chance I'd kill B. If that's the case, I am convicted of murder (dolus eventualis).

There are then more subtle points about the definition of murder relating to intention directed at a human body in space and time vs a particular identity, subjectively foreseeing a chance vs an objective chance, killing vs unlawful killing. Your 5th point is also confusing because it contradicts your 1st, as you then suddenly say even without a chance of killing B, it is NOT a valid defence against murder that I set out to kill A:

This is flawed as it only accounts for B (Reeva) and ignores the fact that even though it wasn't A, there was still a chance (which brings intent) to kill A (intruder) so his thought of Reeva in bed is irrelevant and so the test is flawed in its limit to B.

Hope that helps.

 

[Scand]

No one?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Man-who-shot-wife-in-error-can-sympathise-with-Oscar-20140407

OMG! It looks to me like OP has used someone else's defence! He added window sliding open, I heard him use the word pedistal several times, he added that he preserved the door opening and that he was startled. All of these details were in this article. I was convinced OP's story wasn't true in the first place, but now it feels more like plagiarism!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here’s yet another little gem, this time from Stander’s wife when she arrived at OP’s home that morning, “They were all outside talking and Mrs Stander made a comment that she hoped this didn’t get out to the papers”. A young woman has been brutally shot to death in a particularly horrific way, her hip shattered, her arm virtually amputated and shot in the head with brain matter spilling out and Mrs Stander’s worried about it getting into the papers!!!

As we know, the first person OP rang was Johan Stander. OP said, “Johan, please, please, please come to my house. I shot Reeva. I thought she was an intruder. Please, please come quickly.” When Stander arrived at the house he saw OP carrying Reeva down the stairs. The interesting thing about this is that OP hadn’t told him that he’d killed Reeva, only that he’d shot her, and Stander never even asked if she was still alive. All he knows is that OP was “broken, screaming, crying and praying”. He never comments on seeing Reeva, no mention at all IIRC.

It’s not just the family that have something seriously wrong with them but it’s their friends and associates too. All my thoughts would have been for Reeva. It wouldn’t even enter my head to think about it getting into the papers. They, like the Pistorius family, all reside on another planet, and I hope that planet gets sucked into a big black hole.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Crowdsourcing would be the way to go. A big block of people who want to see the games but who will in this case, all turn their backs whenever he's on the track. They'd all need to sit together obviously.

He hasn't trained for 18 months. I don't believe for one minute he'll ever race again.

He MUST know exactly what SA and the world thinks of him.

He's got big brass ones, but I'm not sure even he has the guts* to step onto any competition track again.

His old life is long gone and that glory ain't never, ever coming back.

How does one go from being a god to being a global object of hatred and disgust?

If we thought OP was messed up before, we ain't seen nothing yet.

A bitter man with no conscience is a supremely dangerous man.

Count on it, his name will be in future headlines.

It may take months, it may takes years, but it will NOT end well for Oscar Pistorius.


* Just like he'll never have the guts to meet face to face with the Steenkamps (remember, on the stand, he could never even look at Nel!).

 

[Interested Bystander]

I must say here, as a South African who've lived through some attacks by intruders, I would forewarn you as to the fact that they are really as frequent. And they are dangerous and harmful attacks. Please don't think that I am siding with OP at any time. I just want to make clear that intrusions like this are commonplace in South Africa

I think that is why OP lived on a guarded estate surrounded by a very high wall on top on which there was electrified fencing. One would not sleep with a balcony door open (as many of his neighbours did too) if one was nervous about one's situation.

 

[wb180]

I think that is why OP lived on a guarded estate surrounded by a very high wall on top on which there was electrified fencing. One would not sleep with a balcony door open (as many of his neighbours did too) if one was nervous about one's situation.

That's why we need to apply the specific details of the case to the situation and not rely on general statements/viewpoints like what Roux and OP was trying to do and why Masipa fell for it. Also why the minority keeps talking about OP 'core version' because they forget the details.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sports Psychologist Ken Jennings says what Oscar Pistorius needs now is psychological healing.

“Oscar has gone through a lot, he is emotionally and mentally drained. What he now needs is some kind of healing process that will lift him out of his negative space. However, this healing process will take some time, I cannot say how long it will take, it won’t be overnight,” adds Jennings.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b829cb...o-compete-again:-Sports-Psychologist-20141609

I’d say 52 days is more than enough time to pick up where he left off with his last girlfriend.

 

[Interested Bystander]

No one?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Man-who-shot-wife-in-error-can-sympathise-with-Oscar-20140407

Well what a lucky boy OP is. A ready made alibi. Saved him wracking his troubled brain at all. Wrecklessly kill somebody and use someone's excuse. It must have taken seconds to recall that incident. Now any man in SA has a charter to murder his partner and get off Scott free. I wonder who the judge and assessors were.

 

[wb180]

Sports Psychologist Ken Jennings says what Oscar Pistorius needs now is psychological healing.

“Oscar has gone through a lot, he is emotionally and mentally drained. What he now needs is some kind of healing process that will lift him out of his negative space. However, this healing process will take some time, I cannot say how long it will take, it won’t be overnight,” adds Jennings.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b829cb...o-compete-again:-Sports-Psychologist-20141609

I’d say 52 days is more than enough time to pick up where he left off with his last girlfriend.

Ken Jennings is a moron. Yes OP was so emotionally drained. That's why he went clubbing during the trial to pick up girls.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Well what a lucky boy OP is. A ready made alibi. Saved him wracking his troubled brain at all. Wrecklessly kill somebody and use someone's excuse. It must have taken seconds to recall that incident. Now any man in SA has a charter to murder his partner and get off Scott free. I wonder who the judge and assessors were.

IB, that case is interesting for another reason as well. That article was published the day before OP started his testimony.

He loves to surf the net. Guess he found this case just in the nick of time.

 

[eimajjjj]

Well, if I read your very first point, this isn't what you said. You do not distinguish between hitting the target and missing the target. You therefore erroneously say if you hit the target and it turns out to be someone else, it is now a valid defence against murder. You further erroneously say for it to be otherwise involves a legal transfer of intent. This leads you to erroneously conclude that there has been a change in the law on this regard and in the past this wasn't a valid defence because of the use of legal transfer of intent: My post says the opposite for all 3 of these things.



There are then more subtle points about the definition of murder relating to intention directed at a human body in space and time vs a particular identity, subjectively foreseeing a chance vs an objective chance, killing vs unlawful killing. Your 5th point is also confusing because it contradicts your 1st, as you then suddenly say even without a chance of killing B, it is NOT a valid defence against murder that I set out to kill A:



Hope that helps.

You used the word 'erroneously' too much so I switched off. Sorry.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Ha ha. I just went to a site I’d visited before “Oscar verdict could be overturned – expert” and up came “this site is too busy to display the page” or words to that effect. The rage continues to grow.

http://citizen.co.za/243043/oscar-verdict-overturned-expert/

 

[kittychi]

Sports Psychologist Ken Jennings says what Oscar Pistorius needs now is psychological healing.

“Oscar has gone through a lot, he is emotionally and mentally drained. What he now needs is some kind of healing process that will lift him out of his negative space. However, this healing process will take some time, I cannot say how long it will take, it won’t be overnight,” adds Jennings.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b829cb...o-compete-again:-Sports-Psychologist-20141609

I’d say 52 days is more than enough time to pick up where he left off with his last girlfriend.

Its absurd to discuss a healing process for poor little Oscar. The Steenkamps will never heal from this.
Let OPs "healing process" happen in jail. Tho I feel the fix is in for no jail time.

 

[Really?]

I too doubt that OP will see the inside of prison.

However, I do believe in karma.....he'll get his someday.....maybe he has already. Moo

 

[Exchange973]

OMG! It looks to me like OP has used someone else's defence! He added window sliding open, I heard him use the word pedistal several times, he added that he preserved the door opening and that he was startled. All of these details were in this article. I was convinced OP's story wasn't true in the first place, but now it feels more like plagiarism!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Do you think he did a google search for possible defences after he shot her. Would explain the delay between the shots and calling for help...?

 

[Interested Bystander]

IB, that case is interesting for another reason as well. That article was published the day before OP started his testimony.

He loves to surf the net. Guess he found this case just in the nick of time.

Hi JJ, I imagine he had to get it in place well before that but is not the case 3 years old? Maybe I have missed the point. It was a Judge Brian someone-or-other. I have forgotten already. I haven't had a chance to see who the assessors were, not that it matters because already that case has created a precedent for murdering your partner and getting away with it, IMO. SA justice has been set back years due to OP's miscarriage of justice.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

 

[jay-jay]

Perhaps that's why he was always smiling in court.

Strange and frightening family.

~rsbm~

.. and to me, this was the strangest and most frightening part of the whole thing .. the re-enactment video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxyoiuYbaO8

.. how the hell could he re-enact that shooting with such apparent ease? .. and worse still, how the hell did he re-enact the part of Reeva slumped on the toilet, and then to cap it all, those bits with him carrying his sister Aimee down the stairs? I've honestly never seen anything so creepy in my whole life! Sick, the whole lot of em.