Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

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I'm sure most people will have searched to see if a man can scream like a woman. A quick search on YouTube gives many examples.

Here are 3 men screaming...

https://soundcloud.com/giles-10/3-men-screaming/s-dJ8J8

Yet OP was never once able to give a demonstration of being able to scream like a woman, if it's that easy then he should've been able to without any problem. The only thing the DT were able to rustle up was his female neighbours re-enacting what they heard, and the noise they made were 'wails' not 'screams'.

Edited to add: those screams in that clip sound like young boys screaming to me*. A nearly 30 year old bloke like OP would not be able to scream like that.


* and you cannot prove otherwise.
 
I'm sure most people will have searched to see if a man can scream like a woman. A quick search on YouTube gives many examples.

Here are 3 men screaming...

https://soundcloud.com/giles-10/3-men-screaming/s-dJ8J8

would have been cool if you didn't say they were male, we could have guessed. :p

Imo, the first sounded like a pig squealing, second one sounds interesting but I'll reserve my opinion on that one, the third sounded very convincing, like a woman or a child.

I think these show that most people can scream on command, there is no reason that OP cannot reenact his 'scream like a woman', he can't because he didn't and he can't. jmo
 
Yet OP was never once able to give a demonstration of being able to scream like a woman, if it's that easy then he should've been able to without any problem. The only thing the DT were able to rustle up was his female neighbours re-enacting what they heard, and the noise they made were 'wails' not 'screams'.

Edited to add: those screams in that clip sound like young boys screaming to me*. A nearly 30 year old bloke like OP would not be able to scream like that.


* and you cannot prove otherwise.
I think you are probably right, I recorded them a while ago, probably young guys.

I wish Oscar's recording had have been played in court, it would have been revealing... [emoji4]

I think the witnesses reporting hearing a woman screaming must be the most difficult thing to deal with for Reeva's family and friends. To think of her final minutes being like that must be tormenting.
 
I'm all for safeguarding our privacy, but when it comes to serious breaches of the law, the messages, pics should be able to be unlocked by LE. jmo

That is exactly how I feel. I imagine that any intentional evil doers will now make sure that they carry Apple iPhones running on iOS8.
 
"I screamed .. I said 'get the **** out of my house .. GET THE **** OUT OF MY HOUSE!"



Sorry, Oscar, that ain't 'screaming'. It's 'shouting'.

Surely that's "GET THE **** OUT OF MY ARSE!" :tantrum:


Sorry, but that always brings me a little welcome comic relief :floorlaugh:
 
This is not just another rich, white guy’s murder trial. The results of this trial will have far-reaching, immediate and long-term, direct and indirect consequences, not only for the families and friends involved obviously, but the whole of SA society.

Global courts also look with interest at other nations’ cases and rulings. Ideas and attitudes, legal and otherwise, do not have borders - we all learn from each other at the speed of a click. We all influence each other, however subtly. It’s all connected, we’re all connected.

This is not just about Oscar Pistorius - this is about how future televised trials, future murderers, future mental health issues, future disability issues and domestic violence, among many others, will be dealt with.

The Dewani murder trial is coming up very soon. I can tell you it will be compared to the OP trial in many ways. That Court, prosecutor and defense will no doubt have already learned plenty from the mistakes (and successes) made in the OP trial. Perhaps the Dewani judge will want to avoid the massive, stinging backlash Masipa suffered by studiously giving extra-stiff scrutiny to what’s before him/her to carefully avoid any errors in law and fact. If nothing else, the OP trial will be a rich cautionary tale - what to do, what not to do, the pitfalls to avoid.

And we haven’t even gotten to the appeal yet. LOL
 
Originally Posted by JuneBug67

Oscar wasn't sitting behind a keyboard like we are parsing every inch and every moment of his progression. He had a terrible misperception in an instant and then was in a full blown state of fight or flight terror. That part has never been hard for me to understand as a possibility. The biochemical products of fight of flight affect physical, emotional and cognitive processes. Focus narrows and tightens, both visually and mentally. People with adrenaline coursing through their bodies are prone to perceive ambiguous situations as hostile and prone to aggression, particularly if they are emotionally reactive. A single state of mind and body over a couple of minutes, not a highlight reel of Oscar's failures of "common sense".

You mean like during a long, loud, vicious fight with a girlfriend?
 
I'm sure most people will have searched to see if a man can scream like a woman. A quick search on YouTube gives many examples.

Here are 3 men screaming...

https://soundcloud.com/giles-10/3-men-screaming/s-dJ8J8
So we are resorting to using other people's voices as the evidence to back OP's claims? Hahaha

In that case, can we all do a search on google for double taps, GAD, multiple personality disorder, etc. Haha

But you know the irony is? Masipa didn't even need such evidence because she just assumed a claim made by OP/Roux is a fact.
 
“I was scared, I wanted to ask Reeva why ... if she's phoning the police.''
- Oscar Pistorius testimony
April 14 2014 session 3 @16:40 - 17:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l_hle5shsDY#t=1014

“I wish she'd let me know she was there.”
- Oscar Pistorius testimony

These two pieces of testimony do paint an extremely damning picture, don’t they?

(Fascinating how the subconscious truth, no matter how deeply buried, always manages to rise to the top. Freud would have had a field day with Oz.)

Blaming others - never accepting responsibility - one of the hallmarks of a sociopath.

The only one OP hasn’t thrown under the bus is God. And depending on the sentence, I’m not even sure about God.

I have no doubt that OP bitterly blames Reeva 100% - not only for her own death but the loss of his career, lifestyle, house, income, status, the total destruction of his “brand”.

He’s a classic pathological abuser who justifies his abuses - if only she hadn’t done X / said X / made me angry / etc.

On his version:

He screams at Reeva TWICE to call the police.
He screams at the “intruder” TWICE to get the F out of his house.
He NEVER whispers “Reeva, did you hear that?
He NEVER shouts out “Reeva, is that you in the bathroom?”
This entire time Reeva is ... silent.

During this entire “intrusion” incident allegedly involving “three” people, HE is the ONLY one to act, speak and "scream"!

She never shouts what the F is going on?
She never asks why she’s supposed to call the police?
She never asks OP who the hell he’s talking to?
She never expresses alarm at his screaming by calling out to OP to see if he’s OK?
She never even attempts to call the police, even though OP screams for her to do so TWICE?


That she would remain 100% silent during this loud “crisis” is simply not possible. Even under OP’s version, why wouldn’t she speak? Especially since she was locked inside the tiny toilet - OP was in danger from the “intruder”, not her!

Most damning of all - at NO time (bail statement, plea explanation, testimony) did OP ever wonder WHY he never got any responses from Reeva. Not one “Reeva, where are you, answer me!”

In OscarWorld (and now MasipaWorld), that Reeva was deaf, dumb and invisible was perfectly acceptable, perfectly reasonable (she had to be for his story to work).

The truth is that Reeva is dead precisely because she threatened to call police and she would not shut up. (See ear witnesses Burger, Johnson, Stipps, EVDM)

That Masipa finds his bizarre story even remotely reasonable, that she unilaterally condemned ALL highly-credible state ear witnesses as “mistaken”* and “not reliable” is beyond the pale. Now I understand why she was so passive during this trial, why she seemed so disengaged, why she asked so few questions, why she was so solicitous of OP’s well-being with endless kid gloves. She is totally incompetent, star-struck, corrupt or all three.


* What does she base five ear witnesses’ “mistake” on? Nothing! She has zero alternative evidence! She never questioned why Roux never produced hard evidence that OP screams like a woman, as he promised he would. A woman’s screams were the very crux of this case! I guess OP’s “remorseful” crying, puking and praying to God (at the scene and in court) were enough to prove his innocence. Masipa’s severely suspect, highly biased, illogical judicial “reasoning” is setting a pathological killer free and setting dangerous legal precedent.
 
During this entire “intrusion” incident allegedly involving “three” people, HE is the ONLY one to act, speak and "scream"!

She never shouts what the F is going on?
She never asks why she’s supposed to call the police?
She never asks OP who the hell he’s talking to?
She never expresses alarm at his screaming by calling out to OP to see if he’s OK?
She never even attempts to call the police, even though OP screams for her to do so TWICE?
~snipped~

Because OP cried, prayed, and vomited, Masipa didn't need to waste her time questioning how unlikely it was that Reeva didn't utter a sound throughout.
 
Yet OP was never once able to give a demonstration of being able to scream like a woman, if it's that easy then he should've been able to without any problem. The only thing the DT were able to rustle up was his female neighbours re-enacting what they heard, and the noise they made were 'wails' not 'screams'.

Edited to add: those screams in that clip sound like young boys screaming to me*. A nearly 30 year old bloke like OP would not be able to scream like that.


* and you cannot prove otherwise.

The first one doesn't even sound human - sounds like a screaming pig! I know - once upon a time I had a potbellied pig. LOL

Bottom line - if OP screams like a woman, Defense would have produced hard evidence directly from OP himself.

How freakin hard would it have been to do a professional audio test AT THE CRIME SCENE, with OP screaming in the bedroom, bathroom then toilet (with various windows open and closed) - all those screams captured by audio equipment directly from the Stipps' house, EVDM's house and from Burger/Johnson's house?

They never did it because it's all a bullsh#t LIE.
 
I also think he only stuck his hand in her mouth to be sure she couldn't speak, by the time Carice arrived it was clear Reeva was dead but OP even had her stick her fingers in Reeva's mouth - how was that supposed to help her breath anyways? Blocking air from getting into her mouth? Such a sham but the judge bought it, hook, line and sinker.

I'm wondering if possibly Masipa always knew she couldn't convict him of a murder charge and the reason she seemed to be reading the verdicts for the first time was because she had her assessors write them up and is possibly blaming them for her looking like such a contradictory (if not corrupt) fool worldwide now.

I never thought for one second I would be wholeheartedly agreeing with a post like this at the beginning of the trial ..................I'll say it again and I'm a nobody with no legal training whatsoever.

The judge and the assessors have totally ignored every piece of evidence given by the prosecution and it's witnesses in favor of a man 'fighting for his life' who would be willing to say anything.
It beggars belief his story could be believed.......................not possible unless the judge disregards the witness statements,which she has !!
She should be dis-barred immediately and I don't care about her previous work.
I'm an electrical engineer and if i did something wrong that killed someone I'd be in jail myself...........simple.
She should be struck off with this 'pile of crap' verdict as half the world is agreeing with me !

I'd hazard a guess that 99% of the people who have watched/listened/analyzed this trial know this guy is a murdering XZat....................including his family and friends btw.

Masipa and her assessors should be barred from ever entering a court of law again after this debacle.....................what the hell were/was someone putting in their tea ffs !!!!

Utter disgrace and these are their best?
 
Oscar wasn't sitting behind a keyboard like we are parsing every inch and every moment of his progression. He had a terrible misperception in an instant and then was in a full blown state of fight or flight terror. That part has never been hard for me to understand as a possibility. The biochemical products of fight of flight affect physical, emotional and cognitive processes. Focus narrows and tightens, both visually and mentally. People with adrenaline coursing through their bodies are prone to perceive ambiguous situations as hostile and prone to aggression, particularly if they are emotionally reactive. A single state of mind and body over a couple of minutes, not a highlight reel of Oscar's failures of "common sense".

Defense’s entire case revolved around Oscar’s “terror”.
Without it, OP’s whole intruder story instantly disintegrates into a puddle of toxic, corrosive sludge.

However, Defense never explained, never presented any detailed, logical rationale for why OP would feel IMMEDIATE, paralyzing “terror” upon simply hearing the bathroom window open. (If one is, in fact, totally ALONE and hears a window open or door slam, then yes, genuine terror may be entirely justified.)

Was OP unaware that Reeva was staying at his house that night?

Was OP unaware that she had just been in his bed, speaking with him?


Insanely ridiculous questions, aren’t they?!! Which makes his claim of instant “terror” = automatic “intruder” (completely bypassing Reeva altogether) utterly impossible. Why would his first thought be “intruder” and not oh, it’s just Reeva? What sane, rational person would instantly jump to such a conclusion?

Did he hear a big metal ladder being moved around outside, being noisily slammed up against the house? NO.
Did he hear his two big dogs outside in the yard (you know, with the intruder :lol:) going crazy barking? NO.

He knew he wasn’t alone, had just spoken with her but never, ever first called out, “Reeva, is that you?” Why? Because his version demanded an “intruder” and a 100% silent, invisible Reeva.

Every single ear witness that night (both defense and state) first queried their partner/family about truly alarming sounds: gunshots, screams, cries.

What “terrified” OP? Open windows and closed doors.
What macho male sports hero would even admit to such utter ridiculous crap - unless he was lying to save himself from prison for murder?!!

Everyone verbally checked with others EXCEPT Oscar (who, interestingly, has a documented history of checking with his girlfriends and house guests in similar “strange noise” instances, even drawing his gun - but never killing anyone. Fancy that.). Inexplicably, that ONE night only - Feb 14 - he radically deviated from his normal behavior - he never checked with Reeva at any point for any reason (he had multiple chances under his version). This one red flag alone damns him.

Oscar was not a “terrified”, “vulnerable” man that night - he was a brutal, raging, murderous man. Look at the horrific crime scene photos (including the damaged bedroom door and bathroom damage - it looks like a freakin war zone). He was never even remotely in danger or under threat of any kind - he admits this on the stand.

In fact, he actually testified that he had no reason to shoot.

David Smith ?@SmithInAfrica Apr 10
Nel: "We know for a fact you had no reason to shoot, objectively." #Pistorius: "That is correct."


NO REASON.

This automatically eliminates his entire defense arsenal:

Self-defense (PPD)
Fear
Vulnerability / Disability
Anxiety (GAD)
Sounds
Noise
Wood movement
Automatism
Slow burn

So, what’s left?

MURDER.

Under his version -

HE was the only actor (Reeva and “intruder” were invisible).
HE was the only speaker (Reeva and “intruder” were silent).
HE was the only ‘screamer’ (hey, we all know seriously injured people never scream, right?).
HE was the only aggressor (unless you count the sliding bathroom window and slammed door).
HE was the only attacker (unless you count the locked door and magazine rack).

Ask yourself why.
There can be only one answer.

Reeva and the “intruder” - both silent and invisible - simply did not exist in his one-man play.

Deaf, dumb and blind covers a multitude of heinous sins, doesn’t it?

OP controlled the “perfect storm” of bizarrely implausible events in his fairytale.

He simply morphed from sports hero to tragic, ‘falsely-persecuted’ hero.

Oscar Pistorius: “I always win.”


Sociopaths - slick, calculating, manipulative liars.

JuneBug, with all due respect, your cowardly pretty boy is nothing but a vile, pathological killer.
 
Judge actually said :common cause
- Op was seen trying to resuscitate the deceased
- OP accused called for help

Seemed very odd to me that anyone could conclude that those events should be read at face value. Apparent vs inetntion!!

shouting " help" is not = calling for help in my book
Fingers down someone's mouth in front of witnesses, after an admitted crying over body delay is not= to someone trying to resus someone using a credible technique

Gawd almighty that post says it all IMO.

The judge and the assessors ignored all this it is so obvious.
They should not be allowed near a court of law ever again after 'their ruling' in this case.

Reeva was dead upstairs in the bathroom after the first shot so couldn't have been the one screaming it must have been OP.......so says Masipa and her assessors?
But.......................................god knows how many minutes later (10?) it must have been an accident according to Masipa because he was trying to resuscitate her at the bottom of the stairs in front of the standers...............even though she was already dead !!!!!
Give me strength !
 
It's a long post Lux so I won't quote it but that certainly doesn't mean it's not worth the quoting. Great post and one which puts so many aspects of Pistorius's ludicrous 'version' and his supposed actions and reactions within that version into a clear light. I especially liked the 'He was the only ...' part and as you say it beggars belief that his only communication to Reeva S was a soft 'get down and call the police' and her only reaction throughout the whole insanity that supposedly followed was, well no reaction whatsoever were we to believe him. Again, excellent post that anyone who considers him 'innocent' should take the time to read carefully and have a good think about all the points you raise.
 
Van der Merwes at 180
Motshuanes at 285 (I think)
Nhlengthwas at 287

There have been other pics posted in previous threads, but I haven't manage to find them yet.

ETA There's one in this post, but for some reason I can't repost the pic.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ad-34-14-05-06-Day-27&p=10516700#post10516700


Thanks. I'm so incensed at the stupidity of this verdict that I'm working up my own timeline presentation, but need to fit it in around work and family commitments.

As part of the research, I'm listening to testimonies again. Anyone doubting Pistorius' guilt should look at a map of where Pistorius and the van der mewre's houses are, then listen to mrs van der mewre's testimony. It's such a close account to what most of us understand happened.

And Mr VDM clearly hears Oscar after the shots. How does the judge dismiss the other witnesses accounts before the shots on a confusion basis? It would be laughable if someone hadn't been murdered.
 
C4EF7012448B4F009D4EF51D33360A19.ashx



I'm not a body language expert by any means, but maybe we should have read more into J Masipa's 'body language' while OP was on the stand. :doh:

It was picked up in a different picture:

24njrm9.jpg
 
"I screamed .. I said 'get the **** out of my house .. GET THE **** OUT OF MY HOUSE!"



Sorry, Oscar, that ain't 'screaming'. It's 'shouting'.

absolutely. the stipps et al, heard a scream, not a string of words.

i think he chose the wrong moment to attempt a demonstration tbh.
if he did indeed shout 'get the ****** out of my house' like that [or much louder]... then the ear witnesses would have been testifying to hearing someone shouting those words in a high pitched voice.
 
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