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the issue of a physician prescribing or recommending supplements has ethical, financial, and other components

there are different ways a physician can prescribe or recommend supplements such as:
-over the counter supplements
physician advises a patient which ones would be beneficial, informing them which suppplements, in what amounts, and how often they should take them, and directing the patient that they can be obtained over the counter at the store
-compounded supplements
physician writes a prescription for the exact ingredients, strength, and dosage - and instructs the patient to fill the prescription at the pharmacy
-retail supplements
physician either sells the supplements directly from their office, or indirectly thru another party such as in Dr. Sievers practice

in the first 2 examples, the physician does not profit
in the last, they do

jmo

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/your-doctor-as-salesman/index.htm
"...a significant number of mainstream medical professionals are now vying for a share of the $26.7 billion-a-year U.S. supplement market. Indeed, industry analysts predict that health-care practitioners could be among the fastest-growing sales channels for supplements over the next decade."
Very good post.

I think TS was a very astute business woman.

I'm also very uncomfortable with an MD going down this road. However, the sheriff stated that nothing she did led to her death, so whether she was a true believer or a business woman who capitalized on an opportunity, or something in between, really doesn't matter much in terms of solving her murder, imo.

Except, of course, it brought her into close contact with people whose motives were definitely not altruistic.

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I had to be 'gone' a couple of weeks so I am trying to get caught up. This case, this situation, utterly 'blows my mind'. That 'joke' matrix chart (that's been around for years, I believe.......) is NOT big enough for this case IMO !

My feelings & always IMO !!!

1. AmazonRain: You talk about the 'house of cards' coming down. But if any of those cards has their hands on.............say......................$10K, I URGE you physicially to get your self (your body) off the grid of the living right now. I URGE you to be 'unfindable' (which goes waaay beyond 'unlocateable', AR). You obviously are courageous and very loving. Your cyber-appearance here is courageous and so very helpful to us all, but only so long as you physically are completely shielded in protection. AR: YOU know best - perhaps the 'house of cards' is at the last point possible prior to complete collapse right now???

2. I find the many LLC's established and GoDaddy domains purchased to be very, very disturbing. IMO, based on personal life experience, knowledge, blah de blah, IMO only, my impressions of those who spend their 'free time' choosing to dabble in such pursuits:
A. Have that I Am Brilliant defect, and that defect includes the 'I' lacking awareness of how she/he is truly perceived;
B. Have megalomania;
C. Think they are the human form of some recent satirical cartoon character I heard about from a tv show called 'The Southerners' Go To The Park' or somethin'.......(I have no tv set....) - somethin' cartoon-creepy happened to that cartoon modern Mr.Magoo character.
D. Establish a '.org' ??? Oh my $^%^$# ------------------------------ IMO = money making scam. Making money off what sorts of people? Hmmm? People with chronic pain? People with money to throw? People wanting to buy The Music Man's snake oil !! Gimmmeeee more !
E. 'nummygirl.com' ---------------- hmmmm no-brainer on that one IMO. Prob' 'yummygirl.com' & 'youngnummygirl.com' & 'nummygirls.com' were all already taken.
F. Establishing an LLC called 'UNIVERSAL' ANYTHING !???????? !!!!!!! H E L L O ! Megalomania. Dubai- not visions of sugar plumbs dancing in her/his head but Visions of soon owning the penthouse (top 5 floors) in the Kahlifa Tower - and that whole bldg', natch'.

3. About Wright and that past paternity matter, here in MN, it is entirely normal for a purported unmarried bio' dad to be able to have a chit chat with an attorney prior to paternity being adjudicated (finalized). It's such a 'big deal' that it's akin to a 'constitutional right', aka due process, fundamental fairness.

Also, here in MN, if/when bio' mom seeks public benefits, with super-limited exception, the wheels of establishing child support start creaking - - establishing a man's 'paternity' underlies his lawful obligation to provide $ support to one's child.

4. I had the experience of being taken on a lengthy tour of a large MO jail (not prison - jail) years ago. It was very sad, very sad. Large groups of same-sexed humans in see-thru-wire-barred cages (see-thru all-around - only the floor was solid).

5. Here's something I CANNOT wrap my head around. So, if Teresa knew Wright had any sort of criminal background, LET ALONE DRUG ADDICTION/SALE/MANUFACTURE OF METH', WEAPONS, why would she tolerate him having anything at all to do with her medical doctor's practice ESPECIALLY when she herself was getting into the money-making side line of supplement sales with those loooong tv commercials (ty to whoever posted that video of her selling a certain group of 'pills' (non-prescrp., 'supplements'). Why would Teresa stand for letting Wright have hold of all of the computers?????? EVEN IF Teresa were kept insulated, Teresa had family, 'street smart' folks around her who surely alerted her?????? I guess GUESS that if Wright & Mark were just scheming to sell 'fake pain cream' (see local Mpls. case, today's date...) to the hurting, and Wright were said to be a Changed Man now, then I can see it, I s'pose....

Mark S knew all of Wright's EVERYTHING. Even if Mark S had the lousiest judgment in the world, EVEN IF Mark S was The Most Gullible Doofus ON THE ENTIRE PLANET, can someone explain to me how he would EVER let Wright have ANYTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH TERESA - personally, WORKWISE -------------------------------------- THEIR COMPUTERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????????


6. THANK YOU to Moderators, owner here, for your kindness to all of us.
 
Very good post.

I think TS was a very astute business woman.

I'm also very uncomfortable with an MD going down this road. However, the sheriff stated that nothing she did led to her death, so whether she was a true believer or a business woman who capitalized on an opportunity, or something in between, really doesn't matter much in terms of solving her murder, imo.

Except, of course, it brought her into close contact with people whose motives were definitely not altruistic.

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everything you said
yes!
 
No one said it was a cure. Many natural ingredients and good quality supplements reduce inflammation which causes pain. I have RA and the best thing I can do for myself is to avoid processed foods which increase inflammation and eat a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and take quality supplements to help reduce the pain caused by inflammation. I believe Dr. Sievers wholeheartedly believed in this approach becauze she saw that it worked. How can you say sbe was dillusional?

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I agree. She wanted your body to work the best it could....in all areas.
 
<modsnip> A person with an autoimmune disease (Which one?) is not going to be cured with some supplement being sold on her infomercial. MOO.

The aim is to get your body feeling like it did when you were 20. ..You still keep your other doctors. This can, however help the other symptoms. Maybe you have energy now so you walk 3 miles a day. You are healthier so your other symptoms get better. It's all good!!!
 
Very good post.
....I'm also very uncomfortable with an MD going down this road. However, the sheriff stated that nothing she did led to her death, so whether she was a true believer or a business woman who capitalized on an opportunity, or something in between, really doesn't matter much in terms of solving her murder, imo. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
TY
Yes, I liked dmac55's post, too... and yours. Very helpful for me because:
A. When I was a 'kid', every week my parent would drag me downtown cuz' by sitting still & BEHAVING for 3 hrs. at a table (they gave you little cuppa' milk & plain graham crackers....) then I was a part of the actual little 'kid' audience for this local 'kiddy' show. (Some of us remember Captain Kangaroo?? Mr. Green Jeans?). Even tho' I was LittleMinnesotaMary then, I VERY VERY much KNEW that I was on a tv set - lights! camera! action! and that the purpose was money making (not fer' me tho' - my pay was the graham crackers.....)
B. Yuck, but it happened: Someone got 'free tickets' (yawn........) in the late 1990's and so I sat through a 'videommercial' (sp???) -making yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnn done at the University of MN main campus ------------------------yawn ------------------------------- it was done by the Lifetim@ Fitn@ss CEO and he was pushing supplements - I wanted to skreamm and get outa there but the person I was with drove & kept saying 'oh just stay'............... :jail: https://books.google.com/books?id=7...tness ceo vitamin bahram akradi sales&f=false It was SO obvious it was all about $$$kaching$$$ for CEO ---------------------- reward for 'us' (idi@ts IMO): you guessed it --------------------------------------water bottle with built in plastic straw with CEO's name on it.....:hot:

MY POINT (imo, and, imo all I just wrote IS relevant to my point): Even if Teresa herself was nuttin' but'a lowest'life'form' of a money grubbin' capitalist in this thing, she did NOT GRUESOMELY MURDER herself and leave two little orphaned girls (the girls are not orphaned, but............ IMO.............. it sure is dang horrifying if, at best, their daddy was lifetime-BFF with the whodunnit) !!
 
TY
Yes, I liked dmac55's post, too... and yours. Very helpful for me because:
A. When I was a 'kid', every week my parent would drag me downtown cuz' by sitting still & BEHAVING for 3 hrs. at a table (they gave you little cuppa' milk & plain graham crackers....) then I was a part of the actual little 'kid' audience for this local 'kiddy' show. (Some of us remember Captain Kangaroo?? Mr. Green Jeans?). Even tho' I was LittleMinnesotaMary then, I VERY VERY much KNEW that I was on a tv set - lights! camera! action! and that the purpose was money making (not fer' me tho' - my pay was the graham crackers.....)
B. Yuck, but it happened: Someone got 'free tickets' (yawn........) in the late 1990's and so I sat through a 'videommercial' (sp???) -making yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnn done at the University of MN main campus ------------------------yawn ------------------------------- it was done by the Lifetim@ Fitn@ss CEO and he was pushing supplements - I wanted to skreamm and get outa there but the person I was with drove & kept saying 'oh just stay'............... :jail: https://books.google.com/books?id=7...tness ceo vitamin bahram akradi sales&f=false It was SO obvious it was all about $$$kaching$$$ for CEO ---------------------- reward for 'us' (idi@ts IMO): you guessed it --------------------------------------water bottle with built in plastic straw with CEO's name on it.....:hot:

MY POINT (imo, and, imo all I just wrote IS relevant to my point): Even if Teresa herself was nuttin' but'a lowest'life'form' of a money grubbin' capitalist in this thing, she did NOT GRUESOMELY MURDER herself and leave two little orphaned girls (the girls are not orphaned, but............ IMO.............. it sure is dang horrifying if, at best, their daddy was lifetime-BFF with the whodunnit) !!
OT, but I LOVED Captain Kangaroo!

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No one said it was a cure. Many natural ingredients and good quality supplements reduce inflammation which causes pain. I have RA and the best thing I can do for myself is to avoid processed foods which increase inflammation and eat a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and take quality supplements to help reduce the pain caused by inflammation. I believe Dr. Sievers wholeheartedly believed in this approach becauze she saw that it worked. How can you say sbe was dillusional?

I&#8217;m right there with you. I &#8216;cured&#8217; myself from the debilitating pain of OA. In 2005, the Rheumatologist M.D. who diagnosed me predicted I&#8217;d be in a wheelchair within a decade. The M.D wanted to give me regular steroid injections for my pain. I said &#8220;No Way&#8221;. It&#8217;s been a decade, and I have no pain at all, I am not on any prescription meds (always refused Rx), and I am healthier than anyone I know in my age group.
It took about one year to cure myself. I eliminated most foods that were processed, refined, hydrogenated, etc. I ate fresh whole foods (mostly raw), primarily organic.
This is true for all of us, even the skeptics: &#8220;You are what you eat. You get what you pay for. Pay now or pay later.&#8221;
My FM is currently in the care of Hospice, although will be &#8216;graduating&#8217; soon. (ie getting booted from Hospice, per Medicare recertification guidelines). Our local Hospice has an Integrative Medicine Clinic, managed by an M.D, where my FM has weekly appointments for Acupuncture and Reiki. The M.D is certified in acupuncture and massage. A Reiki Master works with the M.D.
I don&#8217; know how the medical billing entirely works for Hospice, but all of the services of the Integrative Medicine Clinic are 100% covered. I think 80% is reimbursed by Medicare.
My opinion, without personal knowledge, is that Teresa Sievers was a dynamic and inspirational physician, who was light years ahead of conventional doctors. She gets an A+ rating from me!
 
Food. Yes. Just look at plants. Bad soil, poor plant.

But supplements are not regulated. Who can you trust that what is in them actually is there? They are big business. And drugs also are a huge issue. Everyone wants money so who knows whom you can trust.

I totally agree with food. There is no secret that eating cupcakes is not good for you.
 
Anecdote so no link.

I was working in hospice when a dear friend was admitted. All medications were ceased as he was suffering many side effects, he was expected to live just days. He began to show signs of improvement, the only 'treatment' he had was some yoghurt for his oral thrush and a vitamin c pill that his daughter provided. He wanted to see his next birthday some months away.

4 years later he claims that hospice saved his life.
The staff believe there were too many drug interactions and that stopping them allowed his body to 'do it's thing'.
His daughter believes that the vitamin c saved him.
He believes that his prayer chain saved him.


I believe that the human body is an amazing thing, the mind is a powerful healer, and whilst I am very happy for my friend. I place my trust in a healthy blend of good eating, good friends, and minimal medicine (it is life saving for many people).

Supplements work for those who believe in them.
 
No one said it was a cure. Many natural ingredients and good quality supplements reduce inflammation which causes pain. I have RA and the best thing I can do for myself is to avoid processed foods which increase inflammation and eat a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and take quality supplements to help reduce the pain caused by inflammation. I believe Dr. Sievers wholeheartedly believed in this approach becauze she saw that it worked. How can you say sbe was dillusional?

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When I read a post like this, I really think about what a great doctor TS was and how she lived for working with patients like you! TS went back to school specifically to get a masters in metabolism and nutrition because she passionately believed that the presence or absence of vitamins, minerals and inflammation were at the root of all chronic malaise and disease. Whereas she might have been surrounded by snake oil salesmen, she would only endorse or promote a supplement if she FULLY believed in it's power to help or heal. If those around her attempted to bastardize any supplement or any connection or endorsement of a supplement, that would have upset her to a great degree.
 
Dateline special where they have a fake pill and a doctor endorses it

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14856571/ns/dateline_nbc/t/inside-out/#.VgQQcVo8KrU
IMO There are scams everywhere with everything. As a result, it is necessary these days to educate yourself on any given subject. do research, etc. in order to make informed decisions. Common sense comes into play as well espe iLly with weight management supplements. Lots of s ams there. But I agree, the above is most likely not connected to tbe doctor's murder.

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the issue of a physician prescribing or recommending supplements has ethical, financial, and other components

there are different ways a physician can prescribe or recommend supplements such as:
-over the counter supplements
physician advises a patient which ones would be beneficial, informing them which suppplements, in what amounts, and how often they should take them, and directing the patient that they can be obtained over the counter at the store
-compounded supplements
physician writes a prescription for the exact ingredients, strength, and dosage - and instructs the patient to fill the prescription at the pharmacy
-retail supplements
physician either sells the supplements directly from their office, or indirectly thru another party such as in Dr. Sievers practice

in the first 2 examples, the physician does not profit
in the last, they do

jmo

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/your-doctor-as-salesman/index.htm
"...a significant number of mainstream medical professionals are now vying for a share of the $26.7 billion-a-year U.S. supplement market. Indeed, industry analysts predict that health-care practitioners could be among the fastest-growing sales channels for supplements over the next decade."

I know this is not the usual procedure, but it certainly should be if helping clients is truly what doctors aim for. Years ago, I had a doctor who recommended specific supplements because he believed in them. They weren't a shotgun recommendation, there was method based on physical issues. He would GIVE 30 days of what he recommended so we could make the decision of how well (or if) they worked for us. If we wanted to continue, he sold them at a highly discounted price than I could find anywhere else. They weren't a source of income that I could tell for him at least, through his practice. It was never mandatory, it was recommended, but never mandatory to buy from him. I chose to buy after that first month because the product he gave me worked for me. It did, but who knows, the power of our minds may have fostered the placebo effect. In any case, the fact that he was selling them because he believed in them enough to NOT make a profit that I could see.

Although it was convenient, but I would NEVER accept that as a reason for any doctor to sell anything through their practice unless it was not for profit or minimal to offset. Otherwise, it's the side-eye from me and I back out the door. When my therapist of a few years partnered up with a psychiatrist I had no problem because the psych can prescribe. However, I let my therapist know how creepy it was when the psychiatrist started aggressively hawking Fen-Phen and selling it there at the office. *Churchlady voice: "How conveeenient."* I saw it as opportunistic, unethical and of course, dangerous and it turns out it was dangerous. Their partnership dissolved not long afterwards. My therapist remained an ethical mental health provider until his death. The psychiatrist was a physically gorgeous, very tall dark and handsome man with smooth accent oozing charm that I'm sure some of the wealthy ladies fell for. I (definitely not wealthy, lol) enjoyed looking at him when I first met him , but it gave me the "ew" factor with the smarmy charm and Fen-Phen crap in addition to the yachting magazines and high-end real estate brochures in the waiting room. Givemeabreak. $$$$. He was definitely catering to a specific clientele rather than wanting (IMO) to genuinely help people. LOL, I visited another doctor's office (with a friend) who had many oil paintings on the walls - for sale. Not his paintings. I guess I still forget that while they may be healers, for so many it's more of a business than a practice. There needs to be a balance.
 
When I read a post like this, I really think about what a great doctor TS was and how she lived for working with patients like you! TS went back to school specifically to get a masters in metabolism and nutrition because she passionately believed that the presence or absence of vitamins, minerals and inflammation were at the root of all chronic malaise and disease. Whereas she might have been surrounded by snake oil salesmen, she would only endorse or promote a supplement if she FULLY believed in it's power to help or heal. If those around her attempted to bastardize any supplement or any connection or endorsement of a supplement, that would have upset her to a great degree.
Well said. Thank you AR! IMO the key to making informed decisions is by educating yourself in an effort to be able to separate the lies from the truth. In fact, before and after blood tests may even be more convincing.


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Today I remembered that I had the personal cell phone number of MS in my phone and decided to do a reverse google search on the number. Interesting that it led me to this - it would seem that MS has reserved many domains this year, including ftmyerspainfree.net ; esteropainfree.net ; naplespainfree.net ; pathways2healingtv.com ; pathways2healing.tv (link: http://reversewhois.domaintools.com/sievers-and-company-pllc) you will notice with a little digging that the phone number associated with these registrations is not the phone number for patients at the practice etc.... This phone number MS has had for well over 8 years, it is his personal number - so I know these registrations were done by him, not to mention that they are affiliated with Sievers and Company, registered under the name of MS with sunbiz.org . A cached page also shows that MS was working with a (slimy IMO) multi-level marketing company out of Utah, although much of his association seems to have been deleted on 9/16/15 ( http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...naplespainfree.com/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us ). There is also an email address associated with the phone number of MS on this cached page - never have seen that email address before. So, I am done sleuthing for the day - it exhausts me. In my opinion, it looks like MS was gearing up to peddle some type of pain free supplement. And again, in my opinion, I can't help but think that the "computer whiz" was involved with all of this "digital footprint" activity.

BBM for emphasis

Very interesting that is was deleted 3-4 days after the MO raids, that eventually led to the arrests of JR and CWW.
 
This notice is on Teresa Siever's website.

To Patients

Due to the recent passing of Dr. Sievers, we have arranged to work with a like-minded physician who is available to follow up with patients via phone consult.

We are searching for a like-minded, like-hearted physician to ultimately step into the practice to continue serving your health needs.

http://www.drteresasievers.com/

Sounds like this was written by "Mark the office manager." How many times can we actually use the words "like minded" in two very short sentences? :thinking: Is there a fee for this?
 

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