Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[Peter Brendt]

What are the "laibafiles"?

laibafiles -> the image files, LAIBA, the government run Chinese news agency, embedded in their articles.

 

[four_seasons]

I thought I was the only one curious about these files :facepalm:

i think it's the site that they used to host the pictures. but you can see all the pictures in the main chinese post at the top of each translation posts.

 

[Peter Brendt]

i think it's the site that they used to host the pictures. but you can see all the pictures in the main chinese post at the top of each translation posts.

Yup, they set the rights so nobody can use the pics without the article. One have to give them, they know how to install servers.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Preplanned murder. Suspects followed her up to LA from San Diego where they had seen her and taken her phone to gain her info and have control over her pings/gps.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Thank you so much for posting. Your personal experience is valuable in this case. But I did want to note that apparently psychosis does manifest in Bipolar II:
Abstract

INTRODUCTION:

Psychotic symptoms in bipolar II disorder, allowed by definition only during a depressive episode, are present in a range between 3% and 45%. Little is known regarding the impact of psychotic symptoms on the clinical course of bipolar II patients. Findings from previous reports are controversial and focused specifically on bipolar I disorder. The aim of this study was to ascertain the clinical characteristics of individuals with bipolar II disorder with and without lifetime history of psychotic symptoms.
METHODS:

The sample consisted of 164 DSM-IV Bipolar II patients consecutively recruited from the Barcelona Bipolar Disorder Program. Patients were divided in Bipolar II patients with (N=32) and without (N=132) lifetime history of psychotic symptoms. Clinical and sociodemographic features were compared.
RESULTS:

Thirty-two out of 164 patients with bipolar II disorder had a history of psychosis during depression (19.5%). Bipolar II patients with a history of psychotic symptoms showed a higher number of hospitalizations than patients without such a history (p<0.001). They were also older but were less likely to have a family history of bipolar illness and any mental disorder than non-psychotic bipolar II patients. Melancholic and catatonic features were significantly more frequent in psychotic bipolar II patients (p<0.001).
CONCLUSIONS:

Our findings confirm that the presence of psychotic symptoms in bipolar II disorder is not rare. Psychotic bipolar II disorder may be a different phenotype from non-psychotic bipolar disorder.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20457470

First off, I'm a bipolar female (bipolar 1 at that) and her behavior is NOT typical of a manic episode. The fact that she was traveling alone and Taking spontaneous measures to assuage her manic up cycle is about as manic as you get being bipolar 2.

If she were bipolar 1 and spinning around in a superman costume while correctly reciting Marc Anthony's aside in Julius Ceasar AND made money while doing it.... That is more believable to me than her dissociated state in that video.

Mania just denotes spontaneous behavior. In manic states most bipolar people are hyper aware of what they are doing which is why Bipolar people hate being medicated and losing that productive natural high (Elisa was the opposite of this in elevator).

I've never acted like that in my life as a bipolar patient on adderall and antidepressant. My father is bipolar as well and has never acted like that.

Plus, you don't mess with a b*tch while in her manic state - we are basically on natural "manic" speed 24/7 and could rip you a new one quicker than you could say "I'm a weirdo!"

Hehe hope this helps.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Preplanned murder. Suspects followed her up to LA from San Diego where they had seen her and taken her phone to gain her info and have control over her pings/gps.

That would make it a stalker type. Stalkers are usually medium to high organized, control-driven when they come as SKs, but then, there are different models why they need that kind of control and for what, it's not as simple as in a Bruckheimer show.
Bottom line, if you are right, you would find dead bodies in the past. To travel from San Diego to Los Angeles means leaving the comfort zone, which means, they have enough self-esteem to strike outside. Get me right, I don't say those Perverse Production guys did do it or not, I only estimate, if the did it, they wouldn't be first timers. And as it is with packs, you have to look out for bodies earlier than the actual victims while the victimology, depending on the group dynamics would be a mix of the tastes of the pack members, proportional basically to the influence factors, the single members establish in the pack.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

That would make it a stalker type. Stalkers are usually medium to high organized, control-driven when they come as SKs, but then, there are different models why they need that kind of control and for what, it's not as simple as in a Bruckheimer show.
Bottom line, if you are right, you would find dead bodies in the past. To travel from San Diego to Los Angeles means leaving the comfort zone, which means, they have enough self-esteem to strike outside. Get me right, I don't say those Perverse Production guys did do it or not, I only estimate, if the did it, they wouldn't be first timers. And as it is with packs, you have to look out for bodies earlier than the actual victims while the victimology, depending on the group dynamics would be a mix of the tastes of the pack members, proportional basically to the influence factors, the single members establish in the pack.

You don't find dead bodies all around LA bc many make it across the border or out to the desert in pieces. There are rape gangs here in SoCal. I believe your Bruckheimer remark was a read, which I'll take

However, seeing as IAM from here and hear about more stories than what is read in the news, I'll give you some information:

The mexican mafia is huge here. In fact, the Mexican community rules here. We have coyotes (not the canine type, but real people who kidnap and hold people ransom across the border in Mexico and they LOVE to do it to foreigners/visitors bc they don't expect it),

and the concept of gang rape isn't so far off considering many sex traffickers are in gangs.

Even this week 3 military personnel were tried in the kidnap and raping and killing (through bondage sex) a marines wife. (which is more creepy being that they were military!)

Perhaps it was intended that her body be taken out of the Cecil and buried elsewhere (Mexico/desert/you choose), but they were unable to leave the building with her body without being caught on camera or by police surveillance at the entrances/lobby, so the only sure fire way to not be seen on surveillance with her body (in a large bag or no) would be to transport it up to the roof.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I find it interesting also that when the police found Elisa's body in the tank, they payed special attention to the storage room. The doors were open and investigators were walking around inside there while firefighters were gettkng Elisa's body out. I wonder what the significance of the storage room was? Just to see if anything was missing from it? If Elisa's body had been in there at some point?

Any ideas

 

[Peter Brendt]

You don't find dead bodies all around LA bc many make it across the border or out to the desert in pieces. There are rape gangs here in SoCal. I believe your Bruckheimer remark was a read, which I'll take

However, seeing as IAM from here and hear about more stories than what is read in the news, I'll give you some information:

The mexican mafia is huge here. In fact, the Mexican community rules here. We have coyotes (not the canine type, but real people who kidnap and hold people ransom across the border in Mexico and they LOVE to do it to foreigners/visitors bc they don't expect it),

and the concept of gang rape isn't so far off considering many sex traffickers are in gangs.

Even this week 3 military personnel were tried in the kidnap and raping and killing (through bondage sex) a marines wife. (which is more creepy being that they were military!)

Perhaps it was intended that her body be taken out of the Cecil and buried elsewhere (Mexico/desert/you choose), but they were unable to leave the building with her body without being caught on camera or by police surveillance at the entrances/lobby, so the only sure fire way to not be seen on surveillance with her body (in a large bag or no) would be to transport it up to the roof.

Now, I am not from SoCal, but since I study serial killers, terrorists, the crazies of history and some related types of people for more than two decades now, maybe I should point out some little details:

Gang rape isn't uncommon. But it usually doesn't end with the death of the victims because especially in gang rape cases, the gang has a feeling of safety since they can cover each other's stories and it ends up word against word.
When it comes to your coyotes, they are only in some aspect different from snake heads, traffickers in the Middle East and Schleppers in Germany when the GDR still existed. Those little differences apply mostly to their attitude to smuggle also other stuff, mainly drugs, on the same routes. But otherwise, it's the same business model.
Now, those guys have rather a gang than a pack mentality. Means, they don't hide bodies. The bodies they leave behind in deserts are there because they drove them out and killed them there or because they were there anyway because they were bringing them to the desert into the US and decided to have some "fun" on the way. This is an entirely different behavior than hiding a body in a water tank. The water tank indicates the need to hide the body for a time. Which in itself indicates a time frame and an entirely different mindset than the usual gang way of thinking (gang used here as psychological term, please don't misunderstand it here as gangsta gang or something).

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

You may have all shared this, but it is one I hadn't seen out there at all. It is raw extended footage of the roof just after the LAFD arrive. They still are trying to figure out how to retrieve the body, and it gives some excellent aerial shots.

Anyways, while we all wait on toxicology, watch this video and see if it changes your mind about anything... (2 min after annoying ad)



Extended video: police probe roof of LA hotel

The one thing that it reinforces for me is that girl did not just fall or lower her self into that tank. Those pipes are all in the way. She would have to lift her weight up over the pipes. Possible as she was fairly athletic, but it would hardly be a graceful maneuver if in any altered mind state, imho.

Also from this angle, it also looks like it would have been quite easy to lower a body into the tank from the top of that storage area (up the red ladder).

Totally agree on the lowering of the body into the tank via up red ladder to top of storage room. I've believed this was how she was put into tank. Thank you for clarifying it better than I ever could! Haha

 

[Peter Brendt]

I find it interesting also that when the police found Elisa's body in the tank, they payed special attention to the storage room. The doors were open and investigators were walking around inside there while firefighters were gettkng Elisa's body out. I wonder what the significance of the storage room was? Just to see if anything was missing from it? If Elisa's body had been in there at some point?

Any ideas

Or whether they could find in there evidence for a struggle, rape, the clothes ...

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Now, I am not from SoCal, but since I study serial killers, terrorists, the crazies of history and some related types of people for more than two decades now, maybe I should point out some little details:

Gang rape isn't uncommon. But it usually doesn't end with the death of the victims because especially in gang rape cases, the gang has a feeling of safety since they can cover each other's stories and it ends up word against word.
When it comes to your coyotes, they are only in some aspect different from snake heads, traffickers in the Middle East and Schleppers in Germany when the GDR still existed. Those little differences apply mostly to their attitude to smuggle also other stuff, mainly drugs, on the same routes. But otherwise, it's the same business model.
Now, those guys have rather a gang than a pack mentality. Means, they don't hide bodies. The bodies they leave behind in deserts are there because they drove them out and killed them there or because they were there anyway because they were bringing them to the desert into the US and decided to have some "fun" on the way. This is an entirely different behavior than hiding a body in a water tank. The water tank indicates the need to hide the body for a time. Which in itself indicates a time frame and an entirely different mindset than the usual gang way of thinking (gang used here as psychological term, please don't misunderstand it here as gangsta gang or something).

Gang rape invites drugging in most cases, and in many cases the suspects overdose the victim accidentally, panic, and dispose of body in fear of being caught. Not every latino gang member looks like a cholo and wears a bandana. Not every coyote looks like Benecio Del Toro and is a deug dealer. I've studied murderers in general for a while as well.

I do see your points and they have helped me narrow down my theory that it was a gang rape situation, but by men who intended on only drugging and raping her. I think she died due to complications with the rape drugs and the suspects freaked out. They couldn't get her body out of the building before the police had arrived, so they put her body in the tank. Where was her body between the time of the overdose on part of suspects and the tank? I trust you to help me with this as you have no tuberculosis theory. Those ppl scare me. Lol

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Or whether they could find in there evidence for a struggle, rape, the clothes ...

I agree! For some reason that storage room screams out to me and I thought maybe they put her belongings (clothes) or assaulted her in there?

Thanks for regarding this idea!

 

[Peter Brendt]

Gang rape invites drugging in most cases, and in many cases the suspects overdose the victim accidentally, panic, and dispose of body in fear of being caught. Not every latino gang member looks like a cholo and wears a bandana. Not every coyote looks like Benecio Del Toro and is a deug dealer. I've studied murderers in general for a while as well.

I do see your points and they have helped me narrow down my theory that it was a gang rape situation, but by men who intended on only drugging and raping her. I think she died due to complications with the rape drugs and the suspects freaked out. They couldn't get her body out of the building before the police had arrived, so they put her body in the tank. Where was her body between the time of the overdose on part of suspects and the tank? I trust you to help me with this as you have no tuberculosis theory. Those ppl scare me. Lol

She died probably during the night to Feb 1st. The room service came to look for the room not before 9am, I think. So that would have not only given enough time, but also some low traffic hours before anybody could realize, EL is missing. So, there was time and opportunity to get the body out. Unless, the killer(s) had no vehicle, In that case, the next step, after bringing the body out of the hotel, would have been a problem and therefore made the tank as body storage rather attractive. I think, the weak part of your theory is the transportation part. The guys, you have in mind would have a car. They could have transported the body out and way, the wouldn't have need for that tank stunt.
Now, if this would be my theory, I would look at parking possibilities around the Cecil, especially the possibility to bring a car to a back exit or something.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I agree! For some reason that storage room screams out to me and I thought maybe they put her belongings (clothes) or assaulted her in there?

Thanks for regarding this idea!

The problem is, police going into a room doesn't mean they found something in there. In other parts of the county, I should might add "doesn't mean even there is something" but LAPD had a rather good record in such matters in the past.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Something got messed up in the course of this situation. My original saying was, that everybody who got involved in any way with this case got involved only after it was already clear that something happened to her. Which consequently changed the perception. You look different at a person's behavior if you know, she disappeared from a hotel or she was found dead in a water tank. What under other conditions would be the playful behavior of a young person together with other young persons in a hotel, now becomes in the perception now something sinister. And from thereon everything, she ever wrote., mentioned or ate will be reinterpreted as drugs, psychotic breaks and so on. Get the order right. The psychological problems discussion stems, IMO, at least partially from the knowledge something happened to her. Not vice versa.

Youre right! It seems as though they looked elsewhere before they became worried and began checking the hotel with dogs to find a body. Maybe this is where her lost cell phone is significant. If they tried to find her by tracing her phone, maybe they traced it back to something in San Diego that tipped them off to foul play? That the cellphone was planted in order to throw off police while searching for her? Maybe this made the police realize they needed to go back to square one: the Cecil and last place she was seen. But this time with dogs bc they found something suspicious that turned the investigation from a missing person to possible homicide.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/elisa-lam-s-body-found-on-l-a-hotel-rooftop-police-confirm-1.1163193

The picture on the left shows the storage room being searched and a fireman is deep inside

 

[Peter Brendt]

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/elisa-lam-s-body-found-on-l-a-hotel-rooftop-police-confirm-1.1163193

The picture on the left shows the storage room being searched and a fireman is deep inside

Given the number of umbrellas, I now suspect some of those cops just to find a place safe from rain?

 

[noodled1]

I find it interesting also that when the police found Elisa's body in the tank, they payed special attention to the storage room. The doors were open and investigators were walking around inside there while firefighters were gettkng Elisa's body out. I wonder what the significance of the storage room was? Just to see if anything was missing from it? If Elisa's body had been in there at some point?

Any ideas

It was out of the rain.

Firemen were possibly in it to shut water valves off for the tank

 

[Conductor71]

Youre right! It seems as though they looked elsewhere before they became worried and began checking the hotel with dogs to find a body. Maybe this is where her lost cell phone is significant. If they tried to find her by tracing her phone, maybe they traced it back to something in San Diego that tipped them off to foul play? That the cellphone was planted in order to throw off police while searching for her?

Not sure if you read this but she "lost" her cell the night she was at the Speakeasy in SD. Not so sure that it was lost...she must have used a calling card with hotel phone?

It is interesting that the LAPD when asked about her cell phone replied he did not want to talk about it "very much". This is odd because the police or media have never mentioned her phone that I know of beyond this instance and this is during the Missing Persons press release on Feb 6th. That phone is vital to this case.

Maybe this made the police realize they needed to go back to square one: the Cecil and last place she was seen. But this time with dogs bc they found something suspicious that turned the investigation from a missing person to possible homicide.

I think all along they have suspected homicide. This is why such little detail is being released. Interpol has been involved from the beginning and this means her disappearance is by default assigned to the LAPD Robbery and Homicide Division. A toxicology report reveals more than drugs in the system; it may be necessary to rule out drowning and to find any evidence to determine if she were dead before she was ended up in water. For example, EL, if she had been drugged, could have easily been suffocated with a pillow. There is no shortage of those in a hotel. This would really obscure the cause of death as both drowning and smothering are both essentially death by asphyxia or cutting off air supply.

She died probably during the night to Feb 1st. The room service came to look for the room not before 9 am, I think. So that would have not only given enough time, but also some low traffic hours before anybody could realize, EL is missing. So, there was time and opportunity to get the body out. Unless, the killer(s) had no vehicle, In that case, the next step, after bringing the body out of the hotel, would have been a problem and therefore made the tank as body storage rather attractive.

Another mystery is that police searched the roof with dogs that first week very near the missing person's press release on Feb 6th. The dogs did not pick up her scent. This is highly unusual per our K-9 expert. If you haven't yet visited the K-9 thread, I suggest you read it.

There is a lot of stuff that says this case is really unusual.