Email sent to 490 people who were at Skyline School on 6/4/10

[Jo in Calif]

http://www.nobodycases.com/tips.pdf

If this is a basic script for preparing for trial without a body, I can see why LE put out this email at this stage.

Bumping this, in case anyone might have a question as to why LE is doing what they are doing, and doing it at this time.
Thanks again for this SurfieTx

 

[jadejazzkayla]

My concern about this email is how does LE expect anyone to accurately remember all the people they did or did not see in a relatively short period of time one day 6.5 months ago?

I go to church every Sunday and I could not tell you with any degree of accuracy who was or was not in attendance one month ago, much less 6.5 months ago.

Maybe I'm just not very observant, but even when I go someplace where I know lots of people, I don't necessarily register WHO is there aside from the people I talk to at that time.

Just because a dozen people don't remember seeing someone ~ for example, baby K ~ at the school doesn't prove she wasn't there. People's memories are faulty, especially over half a year later.

I'm assuming LE has a reason for the email, but I personally don't see the validity in asking people to recall things from 6.5 months ago.

bbm...

exactly. someone would have to have proof that the child was not at the school during the time in question for her to be taken off the list OR every single person who was known by le to be at the school would have to NOT see her there.

 

[gliving]

Is there any mention of the creepy guy the students reported seeing at the school that day?

 

[Dee10]

Is there any mention of the creepy guy the students reported seeing at the school that day?

Not that I am aware of and IMO it is important to remember the only one who mentioned the man with two girls was Terri in an email.

 

[Chili Fries]

Bumping this, in case anyone might have a question as to why LE is doing what they are doing, and doing it at this time.
Thanks again for this SurfieTx

That is excellent info. The first sentence under the Trial section:

1. Use thoroughness of investigation as a shield against attack that someone else murdered victim.

I remember Multnomah DA Schrunk making the comment this summer that they do try cases without a body (I don't have the link but it was in a video interview the day Rackner made her first comments outside the courthouse). Still may be a long time until they go forward with a charge and trial, if it ever happens, and obviously new evidence can pop up which changes things.

 

[cluciano63]

Not that I am aware of and IMO it is important to remember the only one who mentioned the man with two girls was Terri in an email.

Actually, there were some comments on a news site where some people claiming to be kids at the school said there was a creepy man at or near the school...no way to know if they were goofing around, it was that first day or second day.

 

[gliving]

Not that I am aware of and IMO it is important to remember the only one who mentioned the man with two girls was Terri in an email.

I'm referring to the man pufnstuf mentioned early on in the case. It's been discussed before:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5253270&postcount=251"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #1[/ame]


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5646055&postcount=356"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Skyline Elementary School[/ame]


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5646288&postcount=384"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Skyline Elementary School[/ame]

 

[SubtleGrace]

My concern about this email is how does LE expect anyone to accurately remember all the people they did or did not see in a relatively short period of time one day 6.5 months ago?

I go to church every Sunday and I could not tell you with any degree of accuracy who was or was not in attendance one month ago, much less 6.5 months ago.

Maybe I'm just not very observant, but even when I go someplace where I know lots of people, I don't necessarily register WHO is there aside from the people I talk to at that time.

Just because a dozen people don't remember seeing someone ~ for example, baby K ~ at the school doesn't prove she wasn't there. People's memories are faulty, especially over half a year later.

I'm assuming LE has a reason for the email, but I personally don't see the validity in asking people to recall things from 6.5 months ago.

True, you may not remember who attended church 6.5 months ago, but I bet you could tell me whether or not youattended, and which of your family members attended with you, especially if one of them were oh, say, singing a solo that day? This was a morning that they were specifically attending a science fair with their kids, I bet they remember who was with them and who wasn't.

I see this as a very positive thing. They are completely weeding out any possibility of a SODDI defense, and trapping Terri, IMO.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I hope that no stone was overlooked for sure. I personally don't know how many individuals were actually interviewed. To me a questionaire is not a interview. Eye to eye contact is a interview. On June 25th there was a article on Orgeonian live (sp)..oh I am not good at cuttin and pasting (under the thread of how many children where at skyline)..it states 350 questionaires were returned...on 12/4..Staton says they interviewed 300 some odd and determined ...and now today, 6 days later we now have 490 people interviewed who were present. I honestly would love to know, and it's not my business for sure, how many people were actually interviewed face to face, eye to eye...not a piece of white paper who can write in on a #2 pencil and erase what you want...were there...the numbers don't add up to me, nor does 7 months later...Thank You Ms.Dee..

Let me see if I can help you out here.
about 350 questionnaire's were returned, June 25th. From these, I would think it is where LE got the names for their people being questioned and on the list to be emailed out.
On 12/4 Staton said they interviewed approximately 300 students, didn't mention everyone else.
I saw the list of people, there were approx. 214 names on that list, including minor children.
This list did not include the students that were present, that day, say approximately 276 students.
When you add the number of names on that list to the number of students, it comes to 490 people interviewed.
I realize the minor children, brought with parents probably weren't interviewed, so we can subtract them, and make up the difference in the students that were interviewed, that were present for the SF.
When LE says interviewed, in my mind it means face to face, especially in what we are talking about here.
Just imagine how long it took to interview that many people, and yes I believe they were face to face interviews.

 

[cluciano63]

It is kind of ironic to me that whenever some news comes out, posters seem to split as to whether it shows good things for the investigation, or not so good.

Juries are comprised of regular folks who need to be convinced, all of them, so that is a little concerning to me, when people can't even agree on whether a new tact means high hopes or hopeless. Just my personal observation. I am seeing this same split on every single board or forum dealing with this case, so it is not just here.

I think this is a case that really needs to find the victim more so than some other "no body" cases we've seen or heard of. Way too many theories as to where Kyron really might be.

 

[Jo in Calif]

It is kind of ironic to me that whenever some news comes out, posters seem to split as to whether it shows good things for the investigation, or not so good.

Juries are comprised of regular folks who need to be convinced, all of them, so that is a little concerning to me, when people can't even agree on whether a new tact means high hopes or hopeless. Just my personal observation. I am seeing this same split on every single board or forum dealing with this case, so it is not just here.

I think this is a case that really needs to find the victim more so than some other "no body" cases we've seen or heard of. Way too many theories as to where Kyron really might be.

I'm pretty sure , when this goes to trial, the jury will be given way more evidence than we are getting.
IMO when it goes to trial, there will be only one theory, being presented by the prosecution.

 

[loves2bmom]

It is kind of ironic to me that whenever some news comes out, posters seem to split as to whether it shows good things for the investigation, or not so good.

Juries are comprised of regular folks who need to be convinced, all of them, so that is a little concerning to me, when people can't even agree on whether a new tact means high hopes or hopeless. Just my personal observation. I am seeing this same split on every single board or forum dealing with this case, so it is not just here.

I think this is a case that really needs to find the victim more so than some other "no body" cases we've seen or heard of. Way too many theories as to where Kyron really might be.

I think this is exactly right Cluciano. I believe they know what happened or most of it but there are just too many holes for the defense to open up. Without the body, I think they are going to have a very tough time getting a conviction. That's not to say I don't believe they have evidence, I think they do but they don't feel confident enough to convince all 12 members of a jury. Last week I thought they might just go forward with what they have come February. Now.....sigh.....I just don't know! I pray they find Kyron and bring this person to justice.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

It is kind of ironic to me that whenever some news comes out, posters seem to split as to whether it shows good things for the investigation, or not so good.

sbm...

any evidence, weather it is released to us as news or not, that will lead the investigators to the pervert who kidnapped kyron is good for the investigation.

 

[ami]

My concern about this email is how does LE expect anyone to accurately remember all the people they did or did not see in a relatively short period of time one day 6.5 months ago?

I go to church every Sunday and I could not tell you with any degree of accuracy who was or was not in attendance one month ago, much less 6.5 months ago.

Maybe I'm just not very observant, but even when I go someplace where I know lots of people, I don't necessarily register WHO is there aside from the people I talk to at that time.

Just because a dozen people don't remember seeing someone ~ for example, baby K ~ at the school doesn't prove she wasn't there. People's memories are faulty, especially over half a year later.

I'm assuming LE has a reason for the email, but I personally don't see the validity in asking people to recall things from 6.5 months ago.

Perhaps they think it couldn't hurt to remind people to think back on that day again, and maybe something would occur to them now they didn't think of then. But I don't think that's exactly the reason, somehow. LE has always been vocal about wanting to interview people quickly, before too much info has come out on the news, so they don't create new memories based partly on reality and partly on something they heard about the case. So I don't think they're looking for new information that breaks the case wide open or anything.

I'm thinking it's more that they don't want the chance of a surprise someone there that day who says that they saw a creepy dude wandering the halls - without LE being able to say that after 2 interviews, a questionnaire and an email follow-up, this witness never reported said creepy dude, nor did the 300+ others they interviewed. If they needed time to jog their memories, a 6 month later follow up went out asking specifically about this. Etc.

About a potential jury versus us: a jury won't be speculating with vague and indirect information and trying to read between the lines while the people with the info sit there, mainly silent, with poker faces. I would think they'd be given facts, evidence, lists, maps and transcripts and the like. I think if we were given that we'd be closer to an agreement... though I don't suppose we'd all every fully agree!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think this is a case that really needs to find the victim more so than some other "no body" cases we've seen or heard of. Way too many theories as to where Kyron really might be.

SBM

I think that if Kyron's body is not found, there is likely to be a question in many people's minds, along the lines of "well, Elizabeth Smart was found alive, so was Steven Staynor, so was Shawn Hornbeck, so was Jaycee Dugard... how can we be sure the same thing isn't going to happen with Kyron?"

Yes, those were extremely rare cases but they did exist. They show that it is not impossible. That in many ways, there can be a reasonable doubt if a child disappears that they will be found months or years later.

 

[scandi]

I just reread the letter. LE wants to include everyone who was seen there or who is believed to have been there. Or not. Between 8 am and noon. So, 490 people would include staff and visitors. I'm still not sure about delivery people.

There is also a daycare onsite all the time. So, everyone present or dropping off a child for daycare during those hours.

Extending the time to noon would include anyone seen after Ky went missing. Say, a perp who removed Ky from his usual space and secreted him on the grounds; then returned later to pick him up.

Hi Pinktoes, When I heard this on the news today {KGW News} what hit me was the end of the statement which you have said with 'or not'.

It made my mind instantly go to someone who was suppose to be at school but was really not there. I am racking my brain to try and remember if I got that feeling from what the newscaster said or the way it was said. But possibly that is a sticking point in the investigation, where someone who would normally be there and said he/she was present, was not there at all. Maybe there are comments about this person from others who were there that they don't think they saw that person until after noon ???

Just sayin' IMO xox

 

[scandi]

What would be really interesting to me is for someone to say - hey, the minor child of Terri and Kaine's is listed on here, but I did not see her in the school with Terri. Maybe she was in the truck with the mystery person. People who know Terri should be able to remember if she had baby K with her or not.

ETA: I doubt though that she would have left her in the truck with someone - because that would screw up her story.

Hi Jules, Yes, that makes allot of sense to me. It also makes me wonder if this person they might be wanting to place is the second person who was either in the parked Horman truck or said to be standing close to it. I immediately flash on Kaine's brother only because we last read he was a part of the investigation - nothing further said about him. xox

 

[ThoughtFox]

As far as whether people can remember who they saw at the school on the day Kyron went missing, I would point out that Kyron was reported missing by the end of the afternoon on a Friday. People had all weekend to think about it, and then the long searches began along with the interviews of parents, teachers, and kids.

It seems to me that anyone out there with kids of their own attending that school would have the day burned into their brain because if Kyron was taken then their own kids might be at risk. So there was a good motivation for remembering that particular day, which wasn't ordinary at all.

To me, if even one person recalled an out-of-place visitor or a parent acting strangely, then that email is worth it.

I'm still sticking to my theory: Either LE wants someone to know their presence (or absence) was noticed and counted, in order to pressure them to come forward, or they want someone else who is involved to get nervous and possibly flip on Terri.

 

[scandi]

Well, it does make you wonder what's going on in the investigation when in the last week we've had the publication of this list, and Staton stating that LE has no physical evidence of Ky or tying Ky to the perp.

WHY would closed-mouth Staton, right now, state publicly that they have no physical evidence???

And is that info-release related, or not, to the use of "The List"??

Hi again Pinktoes, Because at this point in time stating what they have to the media and also giving the public knowledge of the list email []B]will serve to enhance the investigation]/B] IMO. It is commonly done by LE. Look at the Lindsey Baum case. A source affiliated with LE told a searcher they were using the media as a tool to hopefully enhance their investigation. And they were just as tight as they are in this case.

I think that goes right in line leading to the thoughts Cash and Thoughtfox have about LE targeting someone to get them to come forward or flip on Terri.

I think it could be the 'other person possibly involved' that Stanton alluded to in his 6 mo presser. LE already asked the public to let LE know if they saw the truck parked on the side road that day - told the public about a second person seen in or by the truck. I think LE's use of the media now has to do with that person.

It could turn out in the end that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle will smile down on these investigators. It might have been a brilliant move, eh? xox

 

[pinktoes]

Hi Scandi
I can see everybody's thinking with the release of the List. What has me more confounded is why Staton would now make it public that they have no physical evidence of Ky or linking the perp to Ky.

On the face of it, that seems that LAST thing LE would want to make public. Did Staton lie about that??? To trick the person who grabbed Ky into thinking he's safe to flip on his co-conspirators?

Or, is it really true? And maybe Staton is preparing the public, and his voters, for the February revelation that the investigation is still slogging along with circumstantial evidence only?