EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

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We do know this.

At bond hearing #1 the Solicitor said there had been no contact between HE and SM after 11/5/13 until 12/18/13 at 1:36am. I think we can ascertain this means via phone since they had everyone's cell phone records and logs. Any contact in person? Doubtful. Remember at some point in November SM & family went on a 3 week cross-country vacation to Disneyland in CA and didn't get back until the first week or so in December.

This is why i go back to the theory that the affair really HAD ended, but that SM, out doing a job that night, either got horny or was missing HE. He used a payphone simply because he didn't think he'd get in trouble. I think heather was still on her date so perhaps they talked for a few and she said she would call him back or let her think or whatever. I DO think SM told her he was leaving his wife on that call...if only to try to get "some" or get back in with Heather. I believe once she was home, and thought it over, she tried to call him back and got the pay phone. Then eventually called his cell. I think when she called his cell that set off the events in motion because then TM realized that her hubby had strayed or at least she figured he was in the process of it, and she decided to end it here and now. Just my opinion...
 
She's looking svelte and wants to show she's holding her head high and looking like there's no problemo and this is her 'win' for the moment, the triumph of getting herself and manChild out on bond.

manChild, love it! And I love your wild eyed feline cat avatar too, Madeleine :)
 
Defense thinks they can get around the phone call question because supposedly Bri told them Heather used other people's phones to call him.
 
She's looking svelte and wants to show she's holding her head high and looking like there's no problemo and this is her 'win' for the moment, the triumph of getting herself and manChild out on bond.

I finally watched the video and you got it right. I'll bet she hated that mug shot and couldn't wait to get decked out. Evil just radiates off of her. I think they believed they had their stories right in the first place, but I'll bet they are trying to straighten them out now. I certainly hope they are being watched. Their poor kids, sad situation.
 
I'm wondering how long it will take her to put back on all that weight she lost while in jail. I find it interesting that, in my opinion, he appeared to be about the same weight as he was when he was booked. She, on the other hand, seems to have lost half, if not more, of the weight she was packing on when she got incarcerated. Does the jail do something similar to their booking when someone is released... like another mug shot that includes height and weight?

<modsnip>
 
"There are no unwilling victims." SM is no victim. He's a volunteer.

Agreed...I think he enjoys it,actually. I'm waiting for TM and her gobs of makeup to put his leash on and take him for a walk. He'd like that.
 
All the theories that have SM "caring about" or "being in love with" Heather don't make sense to me. What kind of caring or love involves murdering or allowing harm to befall the beloved? Either one requires knowledge, and there is no way SM is just a clueless child with no idea what was happening.
 
All the theories that have SM "caring about" or "being in love with" Heather don't make sense to me. What kind of caring or love involves murdering or allowing harm to befall the beloved? Either one requires knowledge, and there is no way SM is just a clueless child with no idea what was happening.
Work with me here. Fitting in with the timeline we currently know, I have one theory that has SM calling Heather from the payphone, but all the calls to the cell phone went to TM, who had it in her possession. Is there any reason why TM couldn't have been the one to drive the truck to PTL, throw Heather in the river, drive back and SM had no idea what she had done until later? Then he became accessory after the fact, but that's an additional story. Is there any reason, given what we have been privy to, that that could not have happened? And if it did, is it not possible that SM did care for Heather, but now that TM has (most likely in this scenario) killed her, just went along after the fact to try to save his own skin? (because who would believe he had nothing to do with it?) TIA for the input.
 
All the theories that have SM "caring about" or "being in love with" Heather don't make sense to me. What kind of caring or love involves murdering or allowing harm to befall the beloved? Either one requires knowledge, and there is no way SM is just a clueless child with no idea what was happening.

I've changed my mind on that. He lied to LE not once, but over and over even after he knew how desperately they were looking for her. He didn't care about Heather, if he did he would have told the truth early on. He was in a relationship with her, you would think he would have done all he could to help find her.
 
There's something I was thinking about and that is the concept of momentum.

I'm going to use an astronomy analogy and no, I'm not tripping on drugs.

These 3 people were in each other's orbit and while Heather allegedly tried to reach escape velocity at some point, she was pulled back and then into the black hole abyss where, like all matter that is pulled into a black hole, it can't escape and is absorbed into the core and subsumed.

When you look at this case, you see momentum. Momentum of obsession, momentum of anger, momentum of revenge, perhaps some by all of them at varying times and at varying intensities. That momentum grew to 12/18/13. You have to wonder how, when these 3 people were pulled into this momentum of interaction, someone else, purely by coincidence of course, could possibly be involved in the murder and disappearance of one of them, when the 3 of them were in contact with each other all within a span of a couple hours. While not a legal concept, it is one of energy and these 3 are linked.

Then, if you follow the evidence and see how each is linked to each other, a broad picture emerges with some details appearing. We have an outline of a puzzle with a few pieces filled in. Perhaps more of the picture will emerge--I expect more to emerge during a trial when all evidence is presented. If the picture becomes clear enough it will be hard to ignore and discard.
 
Work with me here. Fitting in with the timeline we currently know, I have one theory that has SM calling Heather from the payphone, but all the calls to the cell phone went to TM, who had it in her possession. Is there any reason why TM couldn't have been the one to drive the truck to PTL, throw Heather in the river, drive back and SM had no idea what she had done until later? Then he became accessory after the fact, but that's an additional story. Is there any reason, given what we have been privy to, that that could not have happened? And if it did, is it not possible that SM did care for Heather, but now that TM has (most likely in this scenario) killed her, just went along after the fact to try to save his own skin? (because who would believe he had nothing to do with it?) TIA for the input.

I suppose anything is possible, but I'm not the type of person who is comfortable trying to create theories. My preference is to work with facts and only facts whenever possible.

How well could TM made HE disappear all by herself by throwing her in the river, to the point where no body would ever be found?

If all the calls went to TM, who had SM's phone, why would Heather (who by all accounts was afraid of TM) talk to TM for 4+ minutes, twice, and then put herself in TM's path by going to PTL?

How did SM at the payphone, seen on CCTV making the call at the exact time Heather received a 4+ min call, morph into TM?

And why would Heather lie when she called her roommate in FL several minutes after hanging up the phone with SM and tell her roommate that it was SM who called, if it was really TM instead of SM who called? What purpose would Heather have to make up such a lie?

If SM is really an accessory after the fact, what evidence does the state have to prove he was involved legally as much as his wife (or visa versa) and how were they able to obtain a true bill from the grand jury to indict him for first degree murder?

How would SM saying nothing at all, then lying overAndover when he did speak, and then sitting in jail for nearly a year "save his own skin?" He's charged with first degree murder, heading to trial, and could end up spending life in prison. That doesn't seem like saving oneself at all, or anyone else for that matter.
 
I'm wondering how long it will take her to put back on all that weight she lost while in jail. I find it interesting that, in my opinion, he appeared to be about the same weight as he was when he was booked. She, on the other hand, seems to have lost half, if not more, of the weight she was packing on when she got incarcerated. Does the jail do something similar to their booking when someone is released... like another mug shot that includes height and weight?

<modsnip>
We see weight changes in most cases where an accused is incarcerated. Some gain weight from the starchy menu, and others lose weight because they lose their appetite, or refuse to eat. I wouldn't read too much into it.

JMO
 
Regarding SM's excuse that he called HE in those early morning hours of 12/18/13 (specifically at 1:36am) to tell her to "stop calling and discontinue leaving (notes?) on SM's vehicle."


  • First of all, what calls existed between 11/5/13 and 12/17/13 that had HE calling SM? Or leaving notes on his car?

  • WHY did SM lie about him being in contact with HE until he was confronted with information that LE had the call logs that proved he called her? His wife already knew about the affair and this was LE investigating a missing person and his wife wasn't in the room during questioning. WHY LIE several times?

  • WHY was it *so urgent* that SM contact HE to tell her to stop calling or leaving notes that he HAD to do this after 1:30am Wed 12/18/13, when evidence shows HE was on a date the evening of 12/17/13 and (supposedly) not calling him, not leaving notes and not talking to him, and hadn't since 11/5/13?

  • WHY did SM tell HE that he had left or was leaving his wife and why did he have to make this announcement at 1:36am on 12/18/13? What was *so urgent* that SM HAD to call HE to tell her at that very late hour? This is not a weekend night.

  • WHY did SM and/or TM make 90+ phone calls to HE's cell phone during a 2 hr period some time (weeks?) before HE's disappearance? What was *so urgent* they had to call overAndoverAndoverAndover and couldn't just leave a message or send a txt? 90+ calls? Care to explain that one?

  • If the affair was over and had been since 11/5/13, then WHY did TM send pictures of her and SM having sex in Dec 2013 to HE? What for? The affair was over, allegedly no contact between SM & HE for several weeks until SM called HE from that payphone on 12/18/13 @ 1:36am.

Great points M74!! I also wonder about that supposed $5,000 withdrawal on the 18th. What could that possibly be for?
 
Good questions. Responded in blue. Just guessing here as there's not much to go on yet.

I suppose anything is possible, but I'm not the type of person who is comfortable trying to create theories. My preference is to work with facts and only facts whenever possible.

How well could TM made HE disappear all by herself by throwing her in the river, to the point where no body would ever be found? not sure she was put in the river & don't know if she had help or if alone, she does look strong possibly

If all the calls went to TM, who had SM's phone, why would Heather (who by all accounts was afraid of TM) talk to TM for 4+ minutes, twice, and then put herself in TM's path by going to PTL? maybe talking to SM first then TM grabbing the phone, I do think they were high or drunk, well at least TM

How did SM at the payphone, seen on CCTV making the call at the exact time Heather received a 4+ min call, morph into TM? records are from a different time zone, that happened in a case, I think

And why would Heather lie when she called her roommate in FL several minutes after hanging up the phone with SM and tell her roommate that it was SM who called, if it was really TM instead of SM who called? What purpose would Heather have to make up such a lie? she wouldn't

If SM is really an accessory after the fact, what evidence does the state have to prove he was involved legally as much as his wife (or visa versa) and how were they able to obtain a true bill from the grand jury to indict him for first degree murder? he clearly has put himself closer to Heather than TM but possibly the evidence they do have indicates one covering for the other and clearly which one or two. jmo

How would SM saying nothing at all, then lying overAndover when he did speak, and then sitting in jail for nearly a year "save his own skin?" He's charged with first degree murder, heading to trial, and could end up spending life in prison. That doesn't seem like saving oneself at all, or anyone else for that matter.
spineless, jmo
 
We see weight changes in most cases where an accused is incarcerated. Some gain weight from the starchy menu, and others lose weight because they lose their appetite, or refuse to eat. I wouldn't read too much into it.

JMO

And no alcohol...
 
Headed down slime highway via defense attorneys. jmo & gah...the word blob re: the truck did it for me. The judge might have helped too. Strength to the family & state.
 
I suppose anything is possible, but I'm not the type of person who is comfortable trying to create theories. My preference is to work with facts and only facts whenever possible.
If a person thinks anything about how the case went down, they have a theory. Even one based on facts. I like to rule things out as possibilities if they can be, given the facts.

How well could TM made HE disappear all by herself by throwing her in the river, to the point where no body would ever be found?
Easily. Heather was barely over 5 ft and weighed well under what TM weighed. Add in anger and a shoving match could easily end up in the water. The fact that the body was never found might never have been considered. Bodies that end up in water don't get found a lot of the time.

If all the calls went to TM, who had SM's phone, why would Heather (who by all accounts was afraid of TM) talk to TM for 4+ minutes, twice, and then put herself in TM's path by going to PTL?
SM called Heather from the pay phone. If he asked her to meet him at PTL at that time, and Heather called the cell phone and got TM, she would have known that TM had taken SM's phone and likely believed that SM was tired of being controlled and was leaving TM. Heather is not putting herself in TM's path, to her knowledge. I do see a problem here where there is no actual way for TM to know Heather is going to PTL. I may be able to rule this one out based on that.

How did SM at the payphone, seen on CCTV making the call at the exact time Heather received a 4+ min call, morph into TM?
I don't understand your question. I said that SM called from the payphone. No morphing needed.

And why would Heather lie when she called her roommate in FL several minutes after hanging up the phone with SM and tell her roommate that it was SM who called, if it was really TM instead of SM who called? What purpose would Heather have to make up such a lie?
Again, no lie here. SM called from the payphone. Heather just never talked to him on the cell phone in this scenario.

If SM is really an accessory after the fact, what evidence does the state have to prove he was involved legally as much as his wife (or visa versa) and how were they able to obtain a true bill from the grand jury to indict him for first degree murder?
Just because the Grand Jury returned a true bill, it does not mean the evidence to convict is there. It just means the Grand Jury found probable cause to go forward with a murder trial. Probable cause can be only what we have seen, if they think that is enough. I am, however, assuming they saw more than we have.

How would SM saying nothing at all, then lying overAndover when he did speak, and then sitting in jail for nearly a year "save his own skin?" He's charged with first degree murder, heading to trial, and could end up spending life in prison. That doesn't seem like saving oneself at all, or anyone else for that matter.
If neither of them speak, both are safe in absence of any other evidence. The second a person opens their mouth, anything they say can be construed in a way they did not mean, or they can accidentally say something incriminating. There are countless cases out there where one of the perps says " I was told that if I didn't do what *the other perp* said, they would just say I did and I would still go to jail". So they said nothing. I don't think for a moment that SM could say "I didn't have anything to do with her disappearance" and have anyone believe him after there was video evidence of him making the phone call from the pay phone. Logic says just say nothing, especially if you are incapable of not telling a lie.

The only reasons I have for the scenario to be a no-go are "How would TM know to go to PTL, if she were the person on the cell phone?", and "Would a Grand Jury return a true bill for first degree murder, even if there wasn't enough evidence to convict for murder?"-to which I know the answer is yes, because people who are accused of murder get acquitted on a regular basis.

Thank you for the thought process.
 
Headed down slime highway via defense attorneys. jmo & gah...the word blob re: the truck did it for me. The judge might have helped too. Strength to the family & state.

Do you think they are going to drag Heather through the mud?
 
I've changed my mind on that. He lied to LE not once, but over and over even after he knew how desperately they were looking for her. He didn't care about Heather, if he did he would have told the truth early on. He was in a relationship with her, you would think he would have done all he could to help find her.

I've also changed my mind about how much, and to what extent, SM was involved in the planning process. I honestly didn't even believe a predicated murder took place. I found it much more likely that whatever unfolded that night started when TM saw them together at PTL & flew into a fit of rage. (I also think that's what I WANTED to believe because it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that there are evil people in this world who actually plan out ways to harm others---even though deep down I know it happens far too often.)

Anyway, I didn't previously think SM called HE from the pay phone to lure her out of the house. I thought maybe he actually wanted to see her... that maybe he'd been arguing w/ TM (& she possibly took his phone when he threatened to leave). I wondered if that call had set off a terrible series of events... that maybe TM followed him or tracked him down & saw them together.

BUT after hearing about the video footage where he was seen sneaking out from behind a dumpster to use the phone... I no longer believe that.

Why would he be sneaking around behind dumpsters to make a phone call if his intentions were innocent? I guess he could have worried about TM spotting him & he didn't want her to see his truck. I doubt that theory though. I'm now convinced he was an active & willing participant that planned to harm HE.


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