Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[Inparadise]

I assume Ambien is by prescription only ...

Where did AS get the Ambien he said he took that night?
Did he have a prescription that he brought from his mid-western home?
Did he have enough pills to have been able to offer some to RZ as well?

TIA

Yes, Ambien is by prescription only in the US, but can be purchased over the internet from suppliers that are outside the US, which is very dangerous. There are 2 dosages: 5 mg & 10 mg. Recommended to take (1 tablet) just before bed time, as it is fast-acting.

 

[*Lash*]

If Dina wasn't considered a possible suspect or at least someone they needed to rule out, then why did LE need to determine her position at all?

On 8-24, Search Warrant 41432 was specifically requested by Det. James for hospital surveillance video. Jonah is named in the warrant as a reason for the request was to establish his statements. Dina is not named.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41432.pdf

Dina's cell phone records were requested in Search Warrants 11-164/65 on 8-24 by Det. Tsuida. The detective specifically states in her opinions and conclusions the reason for her request was to examine Jonah's and Dina's phone records to determine their location at the time of Rebecca's death. The detective goes on further to state the phone records will help evaluate whether the statements given by the Jonah and Dina to LE have been truthful.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

 

[MyBelle]

If Dina wasn't considered a possible suspect or at least someone they needed to rule out, then why did LE need to determine her position at all?

On 8-24, Search Warrant 41432 was specifically requested by Det. James for hospital surveillance video. Jonah is named in the warrant as a reason for the request was to establish his statements. Dina is not named.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41432.pdf

Dina's cell phone records were requested in Search Warrants 11-164/65 on 8-24 by Det. Tsuida. The detective specifically states in her opinions and conclusions the reason for her request was to examine Jonah's and Dina's phone records to determine their location at the time of Rebecca's death. The detective goes on further to state the phone records will help evaluate whether the statements given by the Jonah and Dina to LE have been truthful.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

I think RZ's family considered her a suspect and that's the only reason why LE needed to rule her out. That doesn't mean LE ever considered Dina a serious suspect.

JMO

 

[TorisMom003]

I think RZ's family considered her a suspect and that's the only reason why LE needed to rule her out. That doesn't mean LE ever considered Dina a serious suspect.

JMO

But LE considered Jonah one? Why? Why would LE consider Jonah a suspect? Perhaps because Rebecca was "in charge" of his son when Max had a fatal accident? And if that is the reason for Jonah being a suspect then the same would apply to Dina since she is Max's mother. Actually, since there was such obvious hostility from Dina concerning Rebecca she would make the better suspect than Jonah who appeared to love the woman he lived with.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

But LE considered Jonah one? Why? Why would LE consider Jonah a suspect? Perhaps because Rebecca was "in charge" of his son when Max had a fatal accident? And if that is the reason for Jonah being a suspect then the same would apply to Dina since she is Max's mother. Actually, since there was such obvious hostility from Dina concerning Rebecca she would make the better suspect than Jonah who appeared to love the woman he lived with.

MOO

I think Jonah was a suspect for rather obvious reasons: RZ was found at Jonah's house, she was his girlfriend and he was one of the last people to see her alive. None of these reasons apply to Dina then or now.

I think the hostility RZ's family had for Dina is the ONLY reason LE ruled Dina out. I doubt LE ever considered the parents to be suspects just because they were parents of a gravely injured child who was still very much alive.

JMO

 

[Carioca]

Thanks, time.

There's also a video in which Gore asks someone off camera to provide this information. This suggests to me it was not Gore who reviewed the videotapes. Therefore, other posts above may be arguing over a technicality in that it was not Gore himself who viewed the tapes. JMO.

Here's the part from the Press Conference transcript that refers to Dina not on surveillance. IMO there is no way Gore would NOT have viewed the tapes or been briefed as to whether she was on them or not. Gore is clearly flustered by the question, even resorting to stall tactics:

GORE:
The same with Dina.

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:
Was she on surveillance tape the night of the murder – er, the night of the death, of Rebecca’s death?

GORE:
[Exhales deeply – pushes back from table, sound of two thumps on table, addresses someone in the back of the room]
Um -- I will put… Who do we have back there? Um, Dave, I don't believe we have her -- did you hear the question?

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:
I understand Jonah may have been on surveillance tape but not Dina. Is that right?

GORE:
Let’s get an exact answer for you. Right. Yeah… yeah.

[...near end of PC]

REPORTER:
There was something that somebody was going to check on that we asked about earlier. I don’t know if it came in… you are going to check on that.

GORE:
Oh.. [Woman from back of room delivers document to Gore. WOMAN: Incoming… Airmail]

GORE:
I forgot what the question was.

REPORTER:
Dina on surveillance tape.

GORE:
[Peruses document for 20 seconds] We don’t have her on surveillance tape. Her position was determined through GPS triangulation on her cell phone, which put her in the vicinity of Rady Children's Hospital.

 

[Inparadise]

Here's the part from the Press Conference transcript that refers to Dina not on surveillance. IMO there is no way Gore would NOT have viewed the tapes or been briefed as to whether she was on them or not. Gore is clearly flustered by the question, even resorting to stall tactics:

I remember his reaction to that question......he looked very flustered, totally unprepared and unprofessional. Did they not get together as a group before the dog and pony show to do a dry run of some of the questions that they might have expected to be asked of them?

 

[Zinn]

Here's the part from the Press Conference transcript that refers to Dina not on surveillance. IMO there is no way Gore would NOT have viewed the tapes or been briefed as to whether she was on them or not. Gore is clearly flustered by the question, even resorting to stall tactics:

Thanks, Carioca. That is how I remember it, as well. Flustered and stalling. I also remember wondering if it might have been a way to avoid taking personal responsibility for the public statement he was making. Like you, I assume he had at least been briefed on the topic, though I don't know if he had actually viewed the tapes himself.

Just my opinion.

 

[Inparadise]

Thanks, Carioca. That is how I remember it, as well. Flustered and stalling. I also remember wondering if it might have been a way to avoid taking personal responsibility for the public statement he was making. Like you, I assume he had at least been briefed on the topic, though I don't know if he had actually viewed the tapes himself.

Just my opinion.

If Gore was briefed on the topic, he must have the attention span of a gnat, IMO.

 

[K_Z]

I think RZ's family considered her a suspect and that's the only reason why LE needed to rule her out. That doesn't mean LE ever considered Dina a serious suspect.

JMO

Of course LE considered Dina a suspect-- probably the second suspect. Adam, of course, was the first. (His odd comments and behavior probably only heightened the concern of the responding officers, IMO.

I am also quite confident that police officers and detectives investigations are not conducted and dictated by the wishes of friends and family members of the victims. That would be a pretty poor method upon which to conduct investigations.

I think it's obvious that LE considered Dina a suspect in Rebecca's presumed murder from the very first hours after Rebecca's body was discovered. Indeed, even before the ME arrived, while she was still laying nude and dead and exposed in the grass.

As Dina was leaving the hospital, a Coronado police detective paid her a visit. “Are you aware what happened?” he asked.

“Yes, it’s awful,” Dina answered. Later, at her home, two more detectives asked Dina what she thought about Rebecca’s death. She was in a hurry to return to the hospital to view the results of Max’s MRI. “They said something like ‘Is this related to what happened to Max?’” she recalls. “And my first thought was: ‘What are you suggesting? That somebody hurt Max on purpose? That somebody harmed Rebecca?’… They were intimating [foul play].”

http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

BBM above.

Please note that the words above are Dinas own words. That is a pretty important question when it is asked of you by a homicide detective. It means they think YOU know something, and are directly involved.

Now, the first time I read that I was just astounded at Dina's "whirlwind spin doctoring" of that encounter. Deflection tactics, big time.

You see, I absolutely believe that detectives were paying her a visit not because they suspected foul play in Max's death, but because they were genuinely concerned that she had something to do with what they probably strongly suspected was a vicious revenge murder. They were watching her closely to evaluate her reaction to the news of Rebecca's death, as well as her reaction to their questions. They absolutely suspected her of involvement in Rebecca's murder, at that point in time. No question in my mind. The questions she reports them asking her were the questions that LEO's ask suspects. She was not a family member of Rebecca's. Why else would they ask, or care, what she thought about Rebecca's hanging? It is crystal clear from the encounter Dina herself describes that she was considered a very early suspect. IMO, she immediately went into spin mode, and had even anticipated what she would say.

I don't expect Dina's loyal supporters to agree with my interpretation, but there was no reason, at that point in time, for detectives to be taking her time away from her dying son, EXCEPT that they suspected her of revenge involvement in Rebecca's execution. IMO.

 

[time]

....the first time I read that I was just astounded at Dina's "whirlwind spin doctoring" of that encounter.

Me too... not just astounded though, kind of an ick feeling that she would relay it that way. It just doesn't past the smell test that this was a genuine response to that question. She got two things in there that make it appear premeditated because they promoted her agenda:

1. implying LE was implying that someone hurt Max
2. implying she was shocked Rebecca's might have been murdered

And, the sequence of which came first and which came second is odd.

 

[inthedark14]

Me too... not just astounded though, kind of an ick feeling that she would relay it that way. It just doesn't past the smell test that this was a genuine response to that question. She got two things in there that make it appear premeditated because they promoted her agenda:

1. implying LE was implying that someone hurt Max
2. implying she was shocked Rebecca's might have been murdered

And, the sequence of which came first and which came second is odd.

The entire media campaign was odd. It seemed forced. It's also interesting that AR's chapter on this ended with the discussion of DS' media campaign and how, as to the date of publication, her efforts are not matching her accusations. (Yes, my old school paperback showed up today!)

I think that's sort of poignant. The skepticism throughout the chapters is definitely there. I realize that DS' campaign came at a point when the book was probably going to press (timing, anyone?) and it can be argued that is why the chapters ended that way. I'm just not sure WHY though. I have to wonder how Ms. Rule would have ended the chapters had DS not had her media blitz prior to the book being published...what were the original ending thoughts?

Always, MOO

 

[K_Z]

And I forgot to add to my post above about the timing of the web designer eyewitness. Remember that he and his wife saw a woman he says was Dina acting oddly at the front door of the mansion just hours before Rebecca's estimated time of death. He wasn't inserting himself into the headlines of a high profile case when he went to the police the NEXT MORNING. The news reports probably hadn't even barely begun at the time he went to police, according to AR's book. He says he heard the sirens in the morning, recalled the oddly acting woman, and went immediately to police to say what he saw. They took him very seriously, and interviewed him several times.

Now, factor that in to the hanging scene, and the homicide detectives paying personal calls to talk to Dina, in the midst of scene management where the ME had not yet even arrived. Yes, unquestionably, Dina was a suspect.

I have to wonder what she may have said about Rebecca to police when they finally found her the day of Max's fall, or to docs and detectives at the hospital. They knew she was the ex wife. Did they also know, at that point in time, how much animosity she harbored against Rebecca BEFORE Max's accident? What did she say to police when they finally roused her the day of the accident? Did she make a scene at the hospital, making accusations against Rebecca? Did investigators already know about her and Jonah's contentious divorce , and domestic violence reports?

 

[Gilgamesh]

I'm going over the book again, focusing on the crime info. It's odd ( didn't notice it the first time) that AR stated that Adam could not - or would not -give the 411 operator the address for Spreckels. Would not? Why did she make a point of saying that? Strange.

 

[Inparadise]

And I forgot to add to my post above about the timing of the web designer eyewitness. Remember that he and his wife saw a woman he says was Dina acting oddly at the front door of the mansion just hours before Rebecca's estimated time of death. He wasn't inserting himself into the headlines of a high profile case when he went to the police the NEXT MORNING. The news reports probably hadn't even barely begun at the time he went to police, according to AR's book. He says he heard the sirens in the morning, recalled the oddly acting woman, and went immediately to police to say what he saw. They took him very seriously, and interviewed him several times.

Now, factor that in to the hanging scene, and the homicide detectives paying personal calls to talk to Dina, in the midst of scene management where the ME had not yet even arrived. Yes, unquestionably, Dina was a suspect.

I have to wonder what she may have said about Rebecca to police when they finally found her the day of Max's fall, or to docs and detectives at the hospital. They knew she was the ex wife. Did they also know, at that point in time, how much animosity she harbored against Rebecca BEFORE Max's accident? What did she say to police when they finally roused her the day of the accident? Did she make a scene at the hospital, making accusations against Rebecca? Did investigators already know about her and Jonah's contentious divorce , and domestic violence reports?

I am sure that if Dina did have an outburst at the hospital over Rebecca, plenty of nurses and other hospital staff heard/saw it.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Ok. Re-reading the part about Adam allegidly finding RZ hanging. I'm trying to picture it.
... He pulls the table over ( when did the leg break off? Does anyone know?) then allegedly cuts her down. What did that entail, I wonder. Where was the rope cut exactly? How did he hold her when he was both standing on the table as well as placing her on the grass? When did the table leg break off and how did he balance if he was holding her? I'd like to see the re-enactment of that.

 

[passionflower]

JUST STARTED TO READ CHAPTER ONE ON JOSH POWELL
very good. (sorry about caps)
anyway brought back allot i missed or forgot.





i

 

[bourne]

I'm going over the book again, focusing on the crime info. It's odd ( didn't notice it the first time) that AR stated that Adam could not - or would not -give the 411 operator the address for Spreckels. Would not? Why did she make a point of saying that? Strange.

Even though Ann Rule appears neutral in retelling the Spreckels mansion murder mysteries, she does somewhat hint that Adam or a stalker may be involved or that Adam may not be telling the whole truth about certain things.

As far as I can tell, Adam's the only one in the main suspect list of six that Ann Rule intimates that she has some suspicions about. She seems to give a pass to the others, IMO.

 

[bourne]

I am sure that if Dina did have an outburst at the hospital over Rebecca, plenty of nurses and other hospital staff heard/saw it.

Does this mean you don't think Dina ranted in public about Rebecca in the hospital subsequent to Max's accident?

 

[bourne]

It caught my attention when a marriage counselor stated that Dina never mentioned Jonah was physically aggressive toward her.

I'm glad you caught that info in the book too because to me, it suggests that Jonah was never physically violent towards Dina, and that the physical violence in Jonah and Dina's marriage stemmed from Dina's side alone. In fact, it appeared that Jonah's dog was so afraid of Dina's violent rages against Jonah that the dog stepped in to protect Jonah from Dina's physical assaults of Jonah.

I would go so far as to say that based on this info, I don't think Jonah was physically involved in Rebecca's murder but that Dina likely was, along with her sister Nina.