Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[Gilgamesh]

Basically, the Patch doesn't moderate posters, and as a result, things have become ugly at times over there.

They have hijacked many people's names. It's ugly, immature and reeks of desperation

 

[bourne]

I appreciate your thoughts. I don't mention JS much but i have never, ever give him a pass.....
BTW, it is interesting that on the Patch someone has hijacked the name 'Mrs. Holmes'. They are clearly on the offensive as well as not being the real Mrs. Holmes from WS. Their postings are supporting the suicide theory. I've seen that happen before. Why hijack the Mrs. Holmes nic from WS? Are these comments from WS (under the names Mts. Holmes)hitting a little too close to home?
The Patch poster is basically attacking THIS Mrs. Holmes and anyone who supports the murder theory. Why?

Other posters' usernames have also been hijacked on the Patch by suicide supporter(s). I think they're just afraid of the "Rebecca was murdered" theory because Becky WAS murdered.

 

[bourne]

IIRC, the info about Jonah wanting to ask RZ to marry him came from an article written by someone who worked/ wrote for his company. As a result, I have never believed.

Whether he planned on marrying Rebecca may or may not be true but as I recall, an insider said that Becky wore an engagement ring given to her by Jonah, and that there are pics of her wearing it.

 

[Inparadise]

Whether he planned on marrying Rebecca may or may not be true but as I recall, an insider said that Becky wore an engagement ring given to her by Jonah, and that there are pics of her wearing it.

None of her family members knew about it.

 

[bourne]

Another thing about JS being seen multiple times on those tapes.... interesting... I really want to know exactly when and hopefully some day see them... if they even still exist.... I want to see if he at anytime glances at those cameras... it could be deliberate that he makes sure he is seen by security cameras...

How does DS avoid being scene on those tapes? Both DS and JS agree they met up at 1AM...

...... I sure hope those tapes exist as evidence..... to see JS's face and demeanor when all of this is going on.... invalueable... very important...

I put credence on what Ann Rule writes because she was a detective and she's been very solid in the past about details such as times and alibis in other cases. I don't believe she would have written that Jonah had a solid alibi if she didn't investigate that time period fully. I also think that when Jonah was caught coming out of his room at RMH and leaving to visit Max at the hospital, he was seen within minutes entering the hospital. I don't see why Ann Rule would be so positive about Jonah's alibi if she didn't at least check out if there were big lapses in time (30 mins or more, I assume to get from RMH or hospital to Spreckels mansion) in which Jonah disappeared from either RMH or the hospital.

 

[bourne]

None of her family members knew about it.

I still recall an insider telling me about Becky wearing Jonah's engagement ring in pics.

 

[bourne]

That first "S" is very ODD.... added on later... the HE is so strong... and then this... spotty S is added....

The "S" is odd, and looks to be painted twice. It looks as if the painter didn't put enough paint the first go-around and did it again. If it were a sober painter, I believe they would have made sure they had plenty of paint right off the bat. That is why I think it was an intoxicated Dina, and that is why she painted wherever the hey she wanted on the door instead of at distinct margins/panels.

 

[time]

I appreciate your thoughts. I don't mention JS much but i have never, ever give him a pass.....
BTW, it is interesting that on the Patch someone has hijacked the name 'Mrs. Holmes'. They are clearly on the offensive as well as not being the real Mrs. Holmes from WS. Their postings are supporting the suicide theory. I've seen that happen before. Why hijack the Mrs. Holmes nic from WS? Are these comments from WS (under the names Mts. Holmes)hitting a little too close to home?
The Patch poster is basically attacking THIS Mrs. Holmes and anyone who supports the murder theory. Why?

I don't really give him a pass either .... so I wouldn't be surprised, I'm just trying to be logical. Some crimes scenes tend to defy logic though!

Interesting about the poster .... lots of goofy stuff like that happening with this case. I think, but am not sure, that posters over there have impersonated others there and here also. And, I definitely think there are some posters running around with several nics. I definitely think it's the 'not murder' crowd. Not sure about anything beyond that except we might consider 'style' and who might have that particular bent :wink:

 

[bourne]

I really see that terrible death scene as something JS & AS created.. it is very MALE... naked and bound... black block lettering message... knives, gloves...rope... a desperate attempt to hide the accidental murder..

I don't have children... but I try to imagine how I would feel if my relatively new boyfriend... of several years... was alone with my dog and then suddenly my dog is on life support at the vet...and is going to die... once I learned that I would want answers and I would not be very rational...

and now add JS's previous violent history with his exes... then add AS and his *advertiser censored* watching and knowledge of knots....

I think JS was back at the mansion with 1/2 hour of learning from the doctor that his son was brain dead.... and demanding questions.... NR says the light was on when she went there...NR or DS being there speaks to how badly MS's parents needed answers from RZ.... and JS would be the most likely one to ask those questions.... I think RZ was already being attacked at the time NR walked over to the mansion.. early on in the evening.... when RZ died exactly... hard to say...it is possible she was unconscious.. mistaken for dead and hung up.... then died of asphyxiation.... the rigor mortis in her body is confusing....

with HL living right behind the mansion.... JS could have had his car... I don't think it would be hard for JS to get a car, cab or rental... and get back to the mansion...and then the hospital....

I actually don't see maleness in the murder scene. The letters painted on the door are feminine to me. Generally when women write "S" we make it curvy; men tend to write "S' with slight points at the arcs. Also, I don't know how poetic Jonah is but the painted words are almost poetic and lyrical: "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER".

I also don't think it was a spontaneous, impulsive rage murder that happened out of the blue in the murder room. It looks to me it was premeditated for many hours before hand. Estimated measurements of the lengths of ropes needed to be made in advance, the ropes had to be cut in advance, paint and paintbrushes needed to be bought/found, planting *advertiser censored* on Becky's computer using a Southwest account, what words to paint on the door, etc. All these things needed to be carefully planned in advance. I don't think it was on impulse that Becky was suddenly killed.

 

[time]

I don't know that Jonah ever said anything about 8pm to 1am......why telegraph your punches? IMO, he is keeping his mouth shut, and only responding when necessary. If you think about the supposed 3am TOD, and the mysterious VM at 12:30am............he had an alibi for the period 1 am to 7 am..........so why offer up your where abouts prior to that if you don't have to?

I know what you are saying ... unfortunately, it's difficult to tell because I think Jonah's strategy, being in the position he is in and maybe his personality, would be to say nothing! And, I agree with someone previous post that he would turn things over to handlers. I don't think this is uncommon given past lawsuits, PR demands, employee stuff, who knows... peoplein his position often do this. I wonder more about bozos like Drew whatshisname that mouth off all the time.

 

[time]

I actually don't see maleness in the murder scene. The letters painted on the door are feminine to me. Generally when women write "S" we make it curvy; men tend to write "S' with slight points at the arcs. Also, I don't know how poetic Jonah is but the painted words are almost poetic and lyrical: "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER".

I also don't think it was a spontaneous, impulsive rage murder that happened out of the blue in the murder room. It looks to me it was premeditated for many hours before hand. Estimated measurements of the lengths of ropes needed to be made in advance, the ropes had to be cut in advance, paint and paintbrushes needed to be bought/found, planting *advertiser censored* on Becky's computer using a Southwest account, what words to paint on the door, etc. All these things needed to be carefully planned in advance. I don't think it was on impulse that Becky was suddenly killed.

I know I've said this before, but the whole thing seems like some modern vampire movie/Twilight series/anime/romance novel verbage.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

They have hijacked many people's names. It's ugly, immature and reeks of desperation

I put credence on what Ann Rule writes because she was a detective and she's been very solid in the past about details such as times and alibis in other cases. I don't believe she would have written that Jonah had a solid alibi if she didn't investigate that time period fully. I also think that when Jonah was caught coming out of his room at RMH and leaving to visit Max at the hospital, he was seen within minutes entering the hospital. I don't see why Ann Rule would be so positive about Jonah's alibi if she didn't at least check out if there were big lapses in time (30 mins or more, I assume to get from RMH or hospital to Spreckels mansion) in which Jonah disappeared from either RMH or the hospital.

I can appreciate that..... it depends though... on exactly when JS interacted with RZ.... I think she was attacked and questioned early in the evening when NR saw the light on in that room... I still question the RZ time of death and with AS involved.... he may have been the one to "finish her off" so to speak.... the loud music and the screams....important clues...

geez..... AS.. the "bedside manner" remark...admitting to watching *advertiser censored*...
the *advertiser censored* viewed earlier in the day at the mansion.... bizarre...
and if RZ actually managed to do all this to herself.... she was already planning her death before the supposed trigger voice mail? yeah right...

AS defineately involved... alone or with JS... it would be bizarre if it was AS & DS..

The ambien defence.... how convenient.... a lawyer defence strategy...

man there is alot of flotsam and jetsam with this death....

 

[Inparadise]

I put credence on what Ann Rule writes because she was a detective and she's been very solid in the past about details such as times and alibis in other cases. I don't believe she would have written that Jonah had a solid alibi if she didn't investigate that time period fully. I also think that when Jonah was caught coming out of his room at RMH and leaving to visit Max at the hospital, he was seen within minutes entering the hospital. I don't see why Ann Rule would be so positive about Jonah's alibi if she didn't at least check out if there were big lapses in time (30 mins or more, I assume to get from RMH or hospital to Spreckels mansion) in which Jonah disappeared from either RMH or the hospital.

There were a lot of things that Ann obviously didn't fact-check in this book......obvious things, which I found to be surprising knowing her background in LE.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I don't recall there ever being a case where a woman murdered another woman in the manner that RZ was killed.... but certainly cases where men have done this kind of thing to a woman....

I would love to see a PI report on AS... who is HE? We know NOTHING...

 

[time]

I don't recall there ever being a case where a woman murdered another woman in the manner that RZ was killed.... but certainly cases where men have done this kind of thing to a woman....

I would love to see a PI report on AS... who is HE? We know NOTHING...

I have to agree, there are far more gruesome murders committed by men towards women than women towards men, and really towards other women probably is more rare. It happens though and I'm still thinking it happened here.

 

[Bonepile]

I would love to see a PI report on AS... who is HE? We know NOTHING...

and to know SOMETHING will start the process of solving this case I am certain of that.

 

[iSleuth]

I don't recall there ever being a case where a woman murdered another woman in the manner that RZ was killed.... but certainly cases where men have done this kind of thing to a woman....

I would love to see a PI report on AS... who is HE? We know NOTHING...

hmmmm This is a very good point. What do we know?

We know that his brother is the charismatic- PHd -founder and principal of a mega company -botox competitor- who had billions, 3 beautiful children and an exotic and very selfless GF! And he is/was grown man with ( add and sleep meds?) who works as tugboat worker????From the crime scene we know.... a ton of bizzar comments and connections in this timeline. hink factor

you know who I bet knew A LOT about AS? a certain ex sister in law and her sibling. I know my ex Brother in law very well.

This case is haunting to me and a big tangle for everyone because there are so many players with similar motives and dna- who are stake holders- who knew one another intimately. :banghead:

I am praying for justice for Rebecca.

 

[bourne]

I don't recall there ever being a case where a woman murdered another woman in the manner that RZ was killed.... but certainly cases where men have done this kind of thing to a woman....

I would love to see a PI report on AS... who is HE? We know NOTHING...

I don't know of any case that is an exact duplicate of how Becky was murdered, but there are many cases whereby a scorned woman killed her husband's new mistress in a passion rage killing. “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”. As we've seen in the news the past few years, there are women who would kill their own babies, e.g., Casey Anthony, and I would think there is nothing more heinous and depraved than mothers killing her own biological children and covering the murders up.

But here is one on scorned wife who kills her husband's lover:
"she ran over her husband’s mistress and the woman’s 4-year-old daughter, and then stripped naked and laid down in the street to block the ambulance attempting to save their lives."

Interestingly, the wife did not strip the mistress nude, but she stripped herself nude. http://www./266643/scorned-woman-runs-over-husbands-mistress-blocks-ambulance-trying-to-save-her/

Here is an investigative discovery tv show called "Deadly Women". You can watch clips here. http://investigation.discovery.com/tv-shows/deadly-women

This webpage gives listing of episodes on "Deadly Women". [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Deadly_Women_episodes"]List of Deadly Women episodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Here is some episodes of women killing other women out of hate, scorn, anger, etc.

In "Mommy's Little Helpers" several murdering mothers convince their own children to help torture and kill women in their lives, including a grandmother and gfs, and also to help clean up the crime scenes. One mother committed murder just to keep stealing money from the grandmother.

In "Kinky Killers" Janice Buttrum and her husband befriend Demetra Faye Parker, and one night they decide to use Demetra in a kinky sex game. Demetra is beaten and raped, and stabbed 97 times by Janice."

In "Ruthless Revenge, Heather Stephenson Snell is a well-educated psychotherapist by day, and a hard-laced biker gang leader by night. After a failed courtship with her lover, Heather wants revenge, and she sets her sights on her ex-lover's wife, Diane Lomax."

In "Too Close for Comfort, Ellen Etheridge is ecstatic when she gets to marry her new millionaire husband after his wife passes away. However, she's not so fond of having to fight for his love due to her eight new stepchildren and finds pleasure in poisoning them with arsenic to get her way. She ultimately kills four children and is suspected of killing her husband's first wife as well. Pamela Gourlay takes a dangerous mix of pills and pot with her boyfriend, but soon finds herself low on cash as a result. High as a kite, she fixes her problem by brutally stabbing her neighbor Melanie Sturton to death and stealing a few dollars and a gift card. "

In "Thrill Killers", Melinda Loveless's jealousy sparks a revenge rampage that leads to the kidnap and torture of an innocent 12-year-old. 16-year-old Brenda Spencer opens fire on a schoolyard, killing two and wounding nine because she "doesn't like Mondays" (the case inspired the song "I Don't Like Mondays" by Irish punk rock group The Boomtown Rats). In Brisbane, Australia a so-called "lesbian Vampire murder" - a tale of satanic rituals, and gothic goings-on, culminates in the slaying of a male victim to satiate Tracey Wiggington's lust for blood.

Here's one you may have heard of: Betty Broderick
"Till Death Do Us Part", Betty Broderick helped put her husband through law school and gave him four beautiful children, but he repaid her by cheating on her. After divorcing Betty, Dan and his new wife took custody of the kids and made it a priority to make her life miserable. However, when they went too far, Betty snapped and shot them both as they slept in their mansion.

 

[bourne]

Why do women kill ?

"With most of the worlds female serial killers, there is usually only one motive, money, and as much of it as they can get their hands on. Financial security is important to most, but some people go to far, they will kill, maim and kill again to get their hands on insurance policies, house deeds or anything else that is of value, they will kill husbands, children and even their own fathers, just for the mighty greenback.

A staggering 32% of child fatalities in the USA between the years of 1992 and 1996 involved women causing the deaths, and over the last century, there have been over 100 female serial killers, that is equivalent to one female serial killer every year, and over half of these were captured in America.

"Female murderers who have shown no compassion of their crimes against other women, men and children, occasionally dissecting their victims in an attempt to disguise the corpse if they are found."

http://billericky.hubpages.com/hub/Women-Murderers-Women-who-kill-for-pleasure


""The traditional female role is a nurturer, not a murderer. Extreme violence is far more alien to females than to males," he added. "When a murder is committed by a female, it's more likely to be self-defense or can reflect some sort of mental illness."

Though women committed roughly 10 percent of murders between 1976 and 2005, they were involved in nearly 35 percent of murders of intimate partners and nearly 30 percent of murders of where the victim was another family member, according to the Justice Department.

According to the Justice Department, roughly one in 10 homicides are committed by women. And when women kill, their victims are more likely to be someone close to them, like their children, boyfriends or spouses."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7326555#.UMCmO4NQWuw

 

[bourne]

There were a lot of things that Ann obviously didn't fact-check in this book......obvious things, which I found to be surprising knowing her background in LE.

Such as?