Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[CuriousGeorgia]

Wow. I just found it. WOW.

The Stranger Beside Me, a bestseller about serial killer Ted Bundy. Unbeknownst to the author, Ann Rule was doing research for the book while actually working beside the killer at a suicide prevention hotline at which they were both volunteering in Seattle. It was not until Bundy's trials and convictions that she finally accepted that her co-worker and friend was the sadistic serial killer responsible for more than 30 murders.

http://www.literaryguild.com/author-ann-rule-books-12720.html

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

So she was working on a book about the murders and knew Ted the whole time? Well. That says a lot about both Ann and Ted.

 

[Betty P]

So she was working on a book about the murders and knew Ted the whole time? Well. That says a lot about both Ann and Ted.

Well, it says a lot about Ted, anyway. Or are you implying that Ann Rule was involved in some way to assist Ted with his murders? LOL

I would strongly suggest you read the book instead of making off the cuff assumptions about it based on conjecture and a small book summary.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Well, it says a lot about Ted, anyway. Or are you implying that Ann Rule was involved in some way to assist Ted with his murders? LOL

I would strongly suggest you read the book instead of making off the cuff assumptions about it based on conjecture and a small book summary.

No, I'm suggesting that Ted was a "good" serial killer, and maybe that Ann isn't that good of a crime evaluator. JMO

 

[Betty P]

No, I'm suggesting that Ted was a "good" serial killer, and maybe that Ann isn't that good of a crime evaluator. JMO

If you bother to read the book, you'll find that your accusations against Ann Rule are wrong.

Have you ever read any of her books?

 

[freespeech]

I think both Rhonda's mother and the Zahau's need to start the healing process and accept that the deaths were suicide. You can't get justice for a murder if there was no murder.

I think it is important that we remember and respect that these people act according to the compulsion of their consciences as opposed to doing what could be perceived as expedient to those with guilty consciences who would seek a more profitable future if everyone else just "healed and moved on."
Jmoo.

 

[Inparadise]

If you bother to read the book, you'll find that your accusations against Ann Rule are wrong.

Have you ever read any of her books?

BettyP, When my brother was in law school, one of his closest friends was on Law Review with him. When they graduated, and they were both in the top 1% of their class, and sat for the bar exam, it was discovered that his friend was really an escaped felon that had been convicted of murder. It turned out that when he escaped from prison he assumed someone's identify. But since fingerprints are now a requirement for sitting for the bar, he was found out. My brother, and many others who were close to this person, were totally shocked by it and that they had not suspected a thing. So, the fact that Anne Rule had worked with Ted Bundy and not suspected a thing about his true self, is not a negative reflection on her at all......IMO.

 

[freespeech]

Quite the opposite, IMO.

Anne Rule's book about Ted Bundy, one of the worst psychopaths in US history, was a great tool to educate people about how psychopathic criminals are so adept at fooling others around them. Today, anyone following a criminal case involving extreme psychopaths always recalls Ted Bundy as a prime example of how they can manipulate and fool witnesses, LE and victims.

Her personal story was a great tool for public education.

The mind of the type of sociopath that commits serial murder is so foreign and alien to what normal people think about I don't know that any normal person would have identified Bundy for what he was unless they were that too. It recalls the old saying "If you spot it then you got it" type of common sense.

I don't think we can condemn Anne for not knowing what Bundy was. What normal person would pick up on that when from all reports Bundy was "charming" to the extent that it was probably the one skill that he possessed that enabled him to kill the sheer volume of victims that he did.

I wholeheartedly agree that the American public learned a great deal about the capacities and abilities of narcissistic psycho and socio pathology from the Bundy case.

 

[Betty P]

BettyP, When my brother was in law school, one of his closest friends was on Law Review with him. When they graduated, and they were both in the top 1% of their class, and sat for the bar exam, it was discovered that his friend was really an escaped felon that had been convicted of murder. It turned out that when he escaped from prison he assumed someone's identify. But since fingerprints are now a requirement for sitting for the bar, he was found out. My brother, and many others who were close to this person, were totally shocked by it and that they had not suspected a thing. So, the fact that Anne Rule had worked with Ted Bundy and not suspected a thing about his true self, is not a negative reflection on her at all......IMO.

That's an excellent example of how sociopaths can fool even the most intelligent people. In Ann's book about Ted, she says that they worked together as volunteers at a suicide and crisis hotline back then. IIRC, they worked a few evenings a week, so its not as if she had a lot of time to get to know him. Of course he didn't stay there too long as he quit and eventually moved away.

But it was the brief impression she had of him as a charming, affable, intelligent person that made it difficult for her (and others) to view him as a vicious, crazed serial killer. Ted fooled a lot of people, including his professors at law school and the LE officers who were investigating the killings.

It was a big lesson for her and LEO's. From then on, they viewed any suspect who is charming and ingratiating as a possible sociopath. Everyone became much more adept at looking for those special traits that reveal their true nature.

 

[K_Z]

The mind of the type of sociopath that commits serial murder is so foreign and alien to what normal people think about I don't know that any normal person would have identified Bundy for what he was unless they were that too. It recalls the old saying "If you spot it then you got it" type of common sense.

I don't think we can condemn Anne for not knowing what Bundy was. What normal person would pick up on that when from all reports Bundy was "charming" to the extent that it was probably the one skill that he possessed that enabled him to kill the sheer volume of victims that he did.

I wholeheartedly agree that the American public learned a great deal about the capacities and abilities of narcissistic psycho and socio pathology from the Bundy case.

I'd also like to add tht Ann Rule continues to provide a valuable service to the public. She is a prolific author-- I think it is just fine that she is able to make a living this way, and I don't agree that she is making money off other's misery. I don't think she is exploiting the survivors or the victims.

Many people do not read technical and professional journals, and are not in professions where they would learn about the traits of serial killers. Ann Rule's books have reached a substantial population that may not have otherwise known about such dangerous individuals. That she is able to write engagingly is a bonus. Knowledge is power, and teaching the public how murderers cull their victims is a noble pursuit, imo.

Think about authors such as Bill Bass-- who have taken something as gruesome as the decomposition of human bodies under various conditions, and has educated the public about this very interesting and important area of forensic science. He also has some fiction he has collaborated with other authors on (the "Jefferson Bass" non de plume series.)

I'm glad someone like Ann Rule is as successful as she is. I celebrate her success. I guess if there are people who don't like her, or her books, they don't have to read them, right?

I hope this book also makes the NYT bestsellers list. The Powell case contains some very powerful lessons, as well-- lessons for CPS departments, etc. I wish her every success with this book, and thank her for all of her work on behalf of the victims and survivors.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

They say Rebecca was charming. I'm not saying she is a serial killer, but she certainly could have harmed Max. She had a great reason - to get Dina out of Jonah's life.

 

[K_Z]

They say Rebecca was charming. I'm not saying she is a serial killer, but she certainly could have harmed Max. She had a great reason - to get Dina out of Jonah's life.

Wow-- I'm glad you said you're not saying Rebecca is a serial killer.

Gosh-- there are so many charming people involved in this case, right?! It is entirely possible that Rebecca's murderers were VERY charming people, affable....likable, with lots of loyal friends, etc. Charming, but with erroneous and misguided zeal for vengeance. I suspect they wish they had never murdered Rebecca now, a year later. Their life is not better for it, imo.

 

[Betty P]

They say Rebecca was charming. I'm not saying she is a serial killer, but she certainly could have harmed Max. She had a great reason - to get Dina out of Jonah's life.

From what we know about Rebecca, she seemed to be missing the key characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath:

• Manipulative & Conning
• Grandiose Sense of Self
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
• Shallow Emotions - Superficial charm
• Incapacity for Love
• Irresponsibility or Unreliability

 

[Inparadise]

Wow-- I'm glad you said you're not saying Rebecca is a serial killer.

Gosh-- there are so many charming people involved in this case, right?! It is entirely possible that Rebecca's murderers were VERY charming people, affable....likable, with lots of loyal friends, etc. Charming, but with erroneous and misguided zeal for vengeance. I suspect they wish they had never murdered Rebecca now, a year later. Their life is not better for it, imo.

And wasn't it Rebecca who said in the police car (and overheard by a police officer) that "Dina is going to kill me?" I don't recall any mention anywhere what so ever to Rebecca wanting to get Dina out of Jonah's life......am I missing something here?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

From what we know about Rebecca, she seemed to be missing the key characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath:

Or did she???

• Manipulative & Conning - Told various storied about where she was when Max fell
• Grandiose Sense of Self - stated she was a Princess
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt - Went shopping and planned Thanksgiving while Max was in ICU
• Shallow Emotions - Superficial charm - <modsnip>.
• Incapacity for Love - Hangs herself while the person she "loves" son is in the ICU.
• Irresponsibility or Unreliability - Shoplifting at 30, and Max "falls" on her watch.

 

[Betty P]

And wasn't it Rebecca who said in the police car (and overheard by a police officer) that "Dina is going to kill me?" I don't recall any mention anywhere what so ever to Rebecca wanting to get Dina out of Jonah's life......am I missing something here?

It makes you wonder if Rebecca had a real fear of Dina, if she had been threatened or bullied by her in the past. I wonder if LE interviewed anyone close to the family who may have witnessed threats or violent behavior directed at RZ by Dina. We know Dina had a history of domestic violence with Jonah, its not a stretch to think RZ may have also been a victim of her temper in the past.

MOO

 

[K_Z]

I'm observing that it seems that this thread is heading in the direction of being derailed again.

I'm equally sure Ann Rule will not say in her new book that she thinks Rebecca was a serial killer.

 

[Inparadise]

It makes you wonder if Rebecca had a real fear of Dina, if she had been threatened or bullied by her in the past. I wonder if LE interviewed anyone close to the family who may have witnessed threats or violent behavior directed at RZ by Dina. We know Dina had a history of domestic violence with Jonah, its not a stretch to think RZ may have also been a victim of her temper in the past.

MOO

And we really don't know if perhaps Jonah shared information with Rebecca about Dina's temper and past violence.

 

[Betty P]

Or did she???

You'll need to provide some links for proof. Sorry, but I can't take your word on this, unless you register here as an insider to the case with special knowledge.

Told various storied about where she was when Max fell - during the short time she was alive after Max's accident, her accounting of her whereabouts was consistent.

stated she was a Princess - Link?

Went shopping and planned Thanksgiving while Max was in ICU - link? No evidence of that. You keep bringing that up, but have yet to provide proof.

<modsnip>. - Link?

Hangs herself while the person she "loves" son is in the ICU. - There is ample evidence indicating she did not commit suicide, but was murdered

Shoplifting at 30, and Max "falls" on her watch. <modsnip>

 

[Betty P]

I'm observing that it seems that this thread is heading in the direction of being derailed again.

I'm equally sure Ann Rule will not say in her new book that she thinks Rebecca was a serial killer.

Yep. There's a regular pattern to it.