Feb 9 National Enquirer --Revisiting accident theory based on KMT statements

[Devon]

This is what I think, and it's not popular I'm sure: I think Casey should be in a mental hospital for the criminally insane. I'm not saying she's not responsable for her actions because she's not able to reason or to understand outcome; I'm saying, I think she is as mentally as sick as they come, but somehow, still able to be functionable.

I don't think this was an accident, there's no way to argue accident with the duct tape. If she had jsut been trying to keep fluids from leaking out, she wouldn't have wrapped it around her whole head. That says anger and frustration to me, not that she was trying to plug a leak. I do think, however, it was committed in a fit of rage and that in that moment, she was totally insane.

I think the death penalty is the wrong way to go with her, I think she deserves some mercy due to her age and her obvious illness. JMO.

Bolded by me.

The duct tape was not wrapped around her whole head. The LE report makes clear that it was a piece of tape covering the mouth area.

 

[jon_burrows]

Lina, I'm someone who posted many times that the duct tape over the mouth meant murder to me, (I still think it's possible it was a different perp than KC though, I don't think if she were the perp of a murder she would leave the duct tape on or all the other items that would link back to herself or the A home, or dispose of the body there.)

But this thread is for anyone who wants to revisit the accident theory in light of KMT's statements.

I don't think think the argument that Casey didn't do this because she wouldn't have left items that linked her to the house at the dump site will go over well with a jury. I think most of us can agree that Casey isn't very smart and she is extremely lazy. She stole checks then signed her own name, told lies to LE that were so easily disproven they were laughable, and wiped her friends back account out (hello.....surveillance videos are everywhere in a bank). The list goes on and on. Prisons are full of dumb criminals.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Lina, I'm someone who posted many times that the duct tape over the mouth meant murder to me, (I still think it's possible it was a different perp than KC though, I don't think if she were the perp of a murder she would leave the duct tape on or all the other items that would link back to herself or the A home, or dispose of the body there.)

But this thread is for anyone who wants to revisit the accident theory in light of KMT's statements.

That would mean someone else murdered Caylee and Casey found or was given the body and duct taped it? The body was most assuredly in her car at some point.

You might if you have freaked out and hidden your child's body in your car trunk (because you know you were negligent and are too cowardly to admit you are to blame for her death) and the next time you see your dead baby's face when you can bring yourself to open the trunk hours later, her tongue is grotesquely swollen and there is decomp fluid seeping from her mouth!

IMO in that case it would make more sense to put more bags. Somehow I don't see Casey taping up the mouth of a dead body once it has gotten to that condition.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Several sleuthers proposed the theory early in the case, that KC could have "snapped"/"dissociated", upon finding Caylee's body, to the point that her conscious mind returned to a safe time before the event happened. (Witness JG also suggested he thought KC might lose her tenuous grip on reality if she found Caylee dead.) Could KC still be in that regressed place, or could she have been there in the early weeks or months of the case? These latest details by KMT have made me revisit that theory, what about you?

Actually I find this interesting. And the diary page fits in well with this theory.
If she did write that on June 21st of 2008 it's very strange to me. It sounds like someone who is regressed to me. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but that diary page is very oddly written to me. If I think of Casey snapping or regressing, the page seems to fit though. The writing almost seems like a mix of a younger girl and 20 something at the same time.

Please understand I am not trying to defend Casey at all. But I have also always found her partying pictures curious. Why pose willingly with that huge smile on your face days after killing their daughter? Yes, I suppose a sociopath would, but I've wondered if she hadn't wiped the whole thing from her mind somehow, to the point she saw truly saw no danger in allowing those photos to be taken. Those photos are so damning. Annie said Casey wasn't all that smart, but not smart enough to know those pictures could be used against her? You don't need to be a genius to figure that out.

 

[eddeva]

The duct tape found across the mouth of the skull pretty much ends any possibility of it being an accident. Your kid happens to drown or die of heat stroke or an overdose, you're not gonna duct tape the mouth unless you're Patsy Ramsey!

i've never truly understood the accident theory, i've tried but my mind won't bend that way.
when a child is found w/ duct tape over it's mouth a lot of people are bound to assume that it was part of the murder and not something that came after purely b/c it's not exactly normal to say, 'well there's duct tape over the child's mouth so clearly someone tried to stage a kidnapping to cover up an accident here ..... or at the very least they're getting the benefit of the doubt dagnabit.'
for me, it just isn't a natural progression of thought (i'm only speaking of myself)
i just can't reconcile myself to any of it, even theoretically ... well no more than the yeti if you see what i mean.
it's not just the duct tape - it's soooo many things, but my main problems w/ the accident theory are - why didn't she just call 911?? (i don't believe she was too afraid of her mother to do that) and her behaviour after caylee died.
i can see a lot of reasons to think this was a murder, but none at all to make me think it an accident.

 

[Devon]

I think it's possible that KC placed the tape over Caylee',s mouth after Caylee had died. She probably did this to 'boost' her kidnapping story.

I don't think the kidnapping story even entered her head until her mother caught up with her and had called the police. LA pointed out to her that she wouldn't be able to avoid answering their questions and so she came up with that story on the hop IMO. Before that day, her stories had been 'Caylee with Nanny and having fun' to her friends, and 'KC, Nanny, Caylee etc. all on a trip to Tampa' to her mother.

For someone who allegedly had spent some months fantasising about and planning her daughter's death, it seems her planning skills must have totally deserted her afterwards, because to me all her actions after the fact seem to be reactive and devoid of common sense.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Actually I find this interesting. And the diary page fits in well with this theory.
If she did write that on June 21st of 2008 it's very strange to me. It sounds like someone who is regressed to me. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but that diary page is very oddly written to me. If I think of Casey snapping or regressing, the page seems to fit though. The writing almost seems like a mix of a younger girl and 20 something at the same time.

Please understand I am not trying to defend Casey at all. But I have also always found her partying pictures curious. Why pose willingly with that huge smile on your face days after killing their daughter? Yes, I suppose a sociopath would, but I've wondered if she hadn't wiped the whole thing from her mind somehow, to the point she saw truly saw no danger in allowing those photos to be taken. Those photos are so damning. Annie said Casey wasn't all that smart, but not smart enough to know those pictures could be used against her? You don't need to be a genius to figure that out.

Unfortunately I can't bring myself to use that diary page one way or the other. Not until more information is released - if LE has gotten the ink dated or something. I personally would love to use that diary page to fry her but can't because the date is unclear.

 

[wanetta]

Bolded by me.

The duct tape was not wrapped around her whole head. The LE report makes clear that it was a piece of tape covering the mouth area.

Thanks for saying this -- that's what I got from reading the documents. I'm leaning toward accident because I don't see proof of premeditated murder. Also, without being too gross, am not convinced that the tape would stay in original placement with decomp going on, floods, animals, etc. I think there might be some slippage going on - that's been bothering me from first announcement of tape being involved. I guess I'm not actually "revisiting" an accident, I just haven't ever ruled it out just yet. I think this article is interesting, too, because one night on N. Grace (I think) a "shrink" said that placing hearts would be a sign of love.

 

[seagull65]

I don't think think the argument that Casey didn't do this because she wouldn't have left items that linked her to the house at the dump site will go over well with a jury. I think most of us can agree that Casey isn't very smart and she is extremely lazy. She stole checks then signed her own name, told lies to LE that were so easily disproven they were laughable, and wiped her friends back account out (hello.....surveillance videos are everywhere in a bank). The list goes on and on. Prisons are full of dumb criminals.

the fact that the "lies" were all things that would be immediately disproved is another thing that made some of us wonder about mental illness from the beginning.

some of her friends discussing her here on websleuths (Exit / Dante) said she is smart.

you may have me on lazy :crazy:

 

[NJ Lawyer]

Those photos are so damning. Annie said Casey wasn't all that smart, but not smart enough to know those pictures could be used against her? You don't need to be a genius to figure that out.

Except I think KC planned to make excuses as to Caylee's whereabouts indefinitely and probably figured nobody would demand she produce her for some time (and if someone like Cindy did, she'd simply blow her off). By then, she'd have time to come up with some BS kidnapping story that "just happened" and nobody would know Caylee was actually dead when the nightclub pics were taken. The smell in the car and Cindy's call to 911 put an end to those plans and she fumbled when stating the last time she saw Caylee.

 

[seagull65]

I want to apologize for probably not titling my thread very well, using "National Enquirer" in the title was probably not a good idea. Then I had to go out for a while and couldn't fix or revise it.

I just got back and posted another thread for general discussion of the Feb 9 National Enquirer articles for those folks who aren't interested in revisiting the accident theory.

Thanks very much JBean for restoring order on this thread, it's really appreciated! One day I will get better at creating threads. I'm learning gradually.

 

[JBean]

I want to apologize for probably not titling my thread very well, using "National Enquirer" in the title was probably not a good idea. Then I had to go out for a while and couldn't fix or revise it.

I just got back and posted another thread for general discussion of the Feb 9 National Enquirer articles for those folks who aren't interested in revisiting the accident theory.

Thanks very much JBean for restoring order on this thread, it's really appreciated! One day I will get better at creating threads. I'm learning gradually.

Actually it is done exactly right. we need to have that n the title so that someone can find it when they search in the future.

ETA: LOL, no we are not having 2 threads on this article. oy vey.

 

[JBean]

Last time:

Discuss the accidental theory and why it is a possibility in your opinion.

OR

Challenge a specific point someone uses to bolster the accidental notion

Do NOT just list why it wasn't an accident because there are 50 threads that discuss that at length in the rest of the forum. Trying to get a focused specific discussion here.

I personally do not subscribe to the accidental theory and as such I probably won't post in this thread. Maybe some of you others might consider that as an option as well.

 

[Devon]

That would mean someone else murdered Caylee and Casey found or was given the body and duct taped it? The body was most assuredly in her car at some point.


IMO in that case it would make more sense to put more bags. Somehow I don't see Casey taping up the mouth of a dead body once it has gotten to that condition.

It would quite likely have been in that condition by the time she drove back to her parent's house for the first time (likely June 17 or 18) and backed into the garage. I suspect that up until that point Caylee was wrapped only in the blanket. The first decomp. or purge fluids start quite soon, as does swelling of the tongue, while the rest of the body may not show many outward signs of the early decomp. process taking place within. It's possible that KC may not have been able to handle Caylee's body in order to transfer it into the bags before covering up that undoubtedly unpleasant sight.

 

[JBean]

is this the same issue that talks about what sent george over the edge? i ask because we have a whole thread on that issue. this is fine the way it is, but if anyone wants to discuss other things in that issue please bump the old thread.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

The duct tape found across the mouth of the skull pretty much ends any possibility of it being an accident. Your kid happens to drown or die of heat stroke or an overdose, you're not gonna duct tape the mouth unless you're Patsy Ramsey!

LOL, good one. This case reminds me of the Ramsey case in so many ways. Except this mom was able to get the kid away from the murder scene (a short distance away...)

 

[per_curiam]

I know one thing about the Enquirer: They got it right on the NC Senator, John Edwards with his photographer, having a relationship with her. I've always made fun of the Enquirer as something that old hillbillies read and believe. I still regard it as a "rag". However, I remember thinking, "John Edwards?? Are you kidding? He's the family man of all times, too sissy acting to have an affair (with a woman, anyway), and his wife has cancer." But he admitted to the affair after the Enquirer busted him.

The Enquirer wants to make money and doesn't want to be sued. They have probably busted a gut to talk to anyone they could find. I can imagine Casey Anthony having gone to that area, perhaps when she was younger and it wasn't so wooded. It would attract kids. I won't rule out the story of the pet cemetery. I've always felt that there was a reason Casey put Caylee there. It's close to her home. (Casey had a feeling that Caylee was "close by".

But I still wonder, why the dead body smell in her car? WHY would anyone keep a body long enough to smell, if they killed the body? Let me tell you, it most likely wasn't "squirrels" that died in her car. A squirrel can get into and out of anything. They are smart enough to stay around trees and food sources in nature. I doubt squirrels like Cheetos and Pez for much more than a taste.

Why didn't Casey just go straight to the dump site instead of letting a body make her car smell? That tells me that maybe Caylee died away from her home and she was kept in the trunk until Casey found a convenient time to dispose of her? I don't know, really.

This whole thing is still unanswered, but it is so hard to figure out completely.

 

[per_curiam]

To tell you the truth, the OP's question is really not just one question. She puts forth ideas about the Enquirer, Casey's friends and Casey having pets buried in the area where Caylee was found, Casey's possible regression, psychologically, and other items of note.

I read the first post and went to make my comment. I hope I don't get put into time out for not figuring out exactly what the gist of the OP's post was...

Is the OP talking about Kiomarie, Casey's childhood friend? I assumed that.

If I were still back in college, my mean English teachers would make me restate that original post, and then she'd jump all over my posts here. Ha.

I've also said this before: I can see Casey taping Caylee's mouth because perhaps Caylee began to go through some of the after-death happenings as mentioned in an above post, such as mouth open, bodily fluids coming out of mouth. Casey would probably not want to see that. She'd put tape over her mouth, I guess. I don't know if the tape was done before or after her death. Casey is unpredictable to an extent that her mental illness could cause any sort of scenario.

 

[seagull65]

I've been a supporter of the accident theory since the beginning. It is possible that she either did something that led to an accidental death or the child had an accident; fell in to the pool etc.

While 90% of us would call for help, someone like Casey would fear the loss of the rest of her family and her only means of support (other than stealing from friends).
I'm not saying she had a psychotic break over the whole thing but it is possible that she disassociated herself from the thought that the truth would come out.

great post

I've heard that compulsive lying/fibbing is known, in many cases, to occur in people who grew up under the constant fear of punishment. I know the Anthonys had strict standards for KC such as the religious morals they expected her to adhere to, but I have the impression if KC feared punishment it might have been from some experience other than with her own parents. Who knows? Her mom worked, she might have been with other caregivers during the days. Purely theoretical on my part, of course. But whatever is at the root of her compulsive lying, whether it's just a biological/medical/brain problem or some conditioning or fear, I think it would also have been at the root of her reaction when faced with such a situation....that she would not have believed she could tell anyone, and either like you said, dissociated herself from the thought that the truth would come out, or dissociated herself completely from the memory of Caylee. (OK I'll quit, you said it better than me.)

 

[seagull65]

To tell you the truth, the OP's question is really not just one question. She puts forth ideas about the Enquirer, Casey's friends and Casey having pets buried in the area where Caylee was found, Casey's possible regression, psychologically, and other items of note.

I read the first post and went to make my comment. I hope I don't get put into time out for not figuring out exactly what the gist of the OP's post was...

Is the OP talking about Kiomarie, Casey's childhood friend? I assumed that.

If I were still back in college, my mean English teachers would make me restate that original post,

Sorry you thought the original post was so inadequate. I thought the title stated what the thread was about (the accident theory revisited in relation to KMT's statements in this article.)
Then my first post discusses the accident theory revisited in relation to that.

You can discuss any of the points in the opening!