Fiber Analysis

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I have to agree with you, the evidence we know of will not be enough proof to equate beyond a reasonable doubt, at least it would not if I were on the jury. The fibers in this thread are just one of the pieces of evidence that seem to be more exculpitory than inculpitory. If I were on a jury and was told that there might have been a dead body in the trunk of a car, but there was a bag of maggot infested trash in the trunk of that car for at least a couple weeks in the summer sun of Florida, I would tend to believe there was a strong possibility that any horrible smell from said trunk would probably have come from the trash vs. the posibilty of a dead body. I am certain we do not have all the evidence in front of us, but with the evidence we have been presented so far in this fascinating case, I can't find a verdict of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. When an FBI report says q12 exhibits characteristics of apparent decomposition at the proximal (root) end, as a juror I need more info. Apparent decomp sounds like maybe to me. So, in order for me to find someone guilty in a dp case, I need more than one solitary hair that might suggest decomp. Yes, when a number of circumstances point in the same direction, it can be used to help determine things, but in my opinion, that is not the case here. If for instance, the trunk scenario of having Caylee's body is not pursued by the prosecutor because the fibers do not match, then all circumstantial evidence involved with the trunk will not come into evidence at trial. Were that to happen the smell of death, the coffin wax, the alleged decomp hair won't even come into play at trial. So, because we are all guessing at what might come into play at trial, and because we are speculating and forming opinions based on what we read in these threads and on the docs and pictures we are all allowed our own opinions. As new doc dumps emerge, I may reform a previous opinion based on newly released documents. I am not afraid to change my opinion. I think we all need to keep an open mind and evaluate all newly released evidence. These fibers, the FBI docs, the maggot infested trash, and the relative newness of air sample evidence gives me the opinion that the prosecutor will not go down the trunk road in trial. I know there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence out there, but each new doc dump seems to disqualify some of that mountain. Just my opinion of course, but if the future brings more docs that disintegrate current circumstantial evidence, then the prosecutions case may not be nearly as strong as the early indications were.

(Good post)

I do not know of any trunk fiber evidence that prosecutors have to work with. Nor do they have a fabric match between the duct tape found on Caylee to any duct tape that was sourced from the house. From what I know, fiber evidence is basically a dry hole for the State.

In fact, I do not know of any highly reliable evidence whatsoever that places Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car. Moreover, there's no evidence that I know of that places Casey where Caylee's body was found.

The circumstances surrounding Caylee's death are but guesswork and there's no eyewitness, no confession and no physical evidence that proves any of the State's top three charges. If I were the trial Judge, based on the evidence I know of and at a minimum, I would not let the trial proceed with the 1st degree murder charge.
 
I was just looking at the tags, and I note one tag is 'where are kc's clothes'.. while that might be a relevant question, I assume it was Caylee's clothes whose whereabouts were in question?
 
I guess any defense atty could poke holes in every piece of evidence submitted, after all that is their job. At the end of the day the decision will fall on 12 jurors as to whether Casey has been proven guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt. I see such overwhelming evidence already in this case that points to Casey's guilt, frankly I don't know how the jury will get through it all. I guess some people want a video tape of the murder taking place but rarely do we have that. Compare this case to other cases, evidence wise, and I think most would agree this case has more than enough.
 
BBM

Some fibers may have already been on the tape before it was applied to Caylee. That still doesn't account for all the fibers in her hair. I was just looking at pictures of Caylee's room. Caylee's crib has a dust ruffle on the bottom. I wonder if her body could have been placed under her crib for a time, and her hair pick up fibers there.

I suppose her hair could have picked up fibers if placed on a rug, but I have a feeling Cindy vacuums a lot, so I don't know how many fibers that would account for.

If Caylee were lain on a rug, or possibly on KC's bed with that blue blanket on it, prior to death, and struggled while being taped, tossing her head side to side, that may be how her hair picked up so many fibers. May also be how the tape picked up some fibers. Not scientific - just thinkin'.

O/T - in looking at the pics of Caylee's room, and KC's room, I was struck by how many pics there are of Caylee as a younger baby, alone in the pics, and how few there are of KC with Caylee, and how few of Caylee when she was older. I never noticed this before. My immediate thought was that KC lost interest in Caylee after about her first year.

Back on topic - I was also struck by how very many items there are in both Caylee's and KC's rooms with blue fibers.

After reading about forensic fiber analysis yesterday until my eyeballs gave out, I too wonder how much we'll be able to learn. I hope the new 2,000 page doc dump might give us some more information and test results.

I would think that LE would expect Caylee's remains (I hate to type/say that :furious: ) to contain fibers from the WTP blanket she was wrapped in, as well as fibers from KC's clothing and George and/or Cindy's as she was with them daily up until she went "missing" :rolleyes:. I don't think they'd be surprised to find fibers from virtually any textile at the A home.

If LE found any of the aforementioned, it wouldn't prove anything, would it? The only fibers that would prove something would be if they could link them to someone who wasn't supposed to be with Caylee that last day or so. Or if they could link them to the trunk, because she wasn't, obviously, supposed to be there.

KWIM?
 
I would think that LE would expect Caylee's remains (I hate to type/say that :furious: ) to contain fibers from the WTP blanket she was wrapped in, as well as fibers from KC's clothing and George and/or Cindy's as she was with them daily up until she went "missing" :rolleyes:. I don't think they'd be surprised to find fibers from virtually any textile at the A home.

If LE found any of the aforementioned, it wouldn't prove anything, would it? The only fibers that would prove something would be if they could link them to someone who wasn't supposed to be with Caylee that last day or so. Or if they could link them to the trunk, because she wasn't, obviously, supposed to be there.

KWIM?

But, if they can link the fibers stuck to the duct tape surrounding caylee's remains to someone, or someplace, it's more incriminating. Also, the lack of fibers from any other place (IE zenaida) is also incriminating.
 
But, if they can link the fibers stuck to the duct tape surrounding caylee's remains to someone, or someplace, it's more incriminating. Also, the lack of fibers from any other place (IE zenaida) is also incriminating.

I agree.I have no idea how anyone can say they are exculpatory when we have no idea where the fibers came from,yet. Hopefully LE does.
I also don't get how the human decomp smell can be linked to trash when an occupant of that very car ,someone who was last seen IN THAT CAR,has turned up dead and in a state of complete decomposition. Just common sense,IMO.
 
Thank you. We agree that the single hair recovered from the trunk has not been said (or proven) to be Caylee's hair. And the fiber evidence from the trunk is exculpatory, not inculpatory.

'Guessing' and 'might' do not equate to evidence. Do we know of any inculpatory fiber evidence?
I can't wait to find out if the trunk had been cleaned prior to LE taking possession of the car.
 
I agree.I have no idea how anyone can say they are exculpatory when we have no idea where the fibers came from,yet. Hopefully LE does.
I also don't get how the human decomp smell can be linked to trash when an occupant of that very car ,someone who was last seen IN THAT CAR,has turned up dead and in a state of complete decomposition. Just common sense,IMO.
...and I trust the handlers of the dogs to explain the dogs' behavior. I am so thankful for this "junk science"...so many lost souls have been found as a result of the work of these animals.
 
Does anyone know if there has been information released on fibers (or a lack thereof) found on the canvas laundry bag? I did a search on that thread and didn't see anything.
 
Does anyone know if there has been information released on fibers (or a lack thereof) found on the canvas laundry bag? I did a search on that thread and didn't see anything.

I wasn't able to find anything either. Maybe there will be something in the imminent doc dump.
 
Does anyone know if there has been information released on fibers (or a lack thereof) found on the canvas laundry bag? I did a search on that thread and didn't see anything.

I wasn't able to find anything either. Maybe there will be something in the imminent doc dump.

It is listed on my post #29, on this thread, as Q84 - laundry bag (from the crime scene). It had no fibers matching specimens listed from the trunk.

ETA: view of single post for easier access to some of the fiber analysis results:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4350700&postcount=29"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Fiber Analysis[/ame]
 
It is the 3rd picture on this slideshow: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html

The blanket is blue. It looks like blue carpeting on the floor of KC's room too. Or maybe the carpet is grayish white. It is so hard to tell decor colors on a monitor.

In the Greta interview the blue coverlet is folded up at the end of the bed. There was a white coverlet under it. Blue and while fibers where found on the tape.
 
In the Greta interview the blue coverlet is folded up at the end of the bed. There was a white coverlet under it. Blue and while fibers where found on the tape.

It looks like there are white and light blue cotton pillow cases too. Plus an animal print throw was on her bed in one picture. It had black, white and beige furry stuff. If you were getting a child held down and taping over her mouth I expect there'd be a little struggle that would result in fibers being in Caylee's hair and on the tape.
 
While it would certainly suggest something ominous to me if there were any fibres from KC's bed cover or carpet, I guess it really wouldn't mean much legally.. why wouldn't she have fibers from both the carpet and the bed, if she slept and played in that room a fair amount of the time?
Even fibers from the trunk wouldn't really carry much weight, fibres do get around, and a few fibers might well have got on her laundry, then been transfered to her hair, for example.
Still, it would be interesting to know where the fibres originated.. then we could make up our own minds about the route they took from their original article, to that little body.
 
It is listed on my post #29, on this thread, as Q84 - laundry bag (from the crime scene). It had no fibers matching specimens listed from the trunk.
If Caylee was bagged and put into the trunk right away, in the shortage of air she'd putrefy quickly and in a most foul way.
Bacteria break down tissues and cells, releasing fluids into body cavities. They often respire in the absence of oxygen (anaerobically) and produce various gases including hydrogen sulphide, methane, cadaverine and putrescine as by-products. People might find these gases foul smelling, but they are very attractive to a variety of insects. http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/decomposition/putrefaction.htm

DNA would break down and degrade.

Next Caylee was tossed out in a marsh, endured a hurricane outside unprotected, and then Caylee went underwater. Caylee''s clothes were down to the a shirt collar and tattered shorts. Animals dug through and scattered her bones. The trash bags were in shreds. As were Caylee's pull-ups. The laundry bag is covered with mud, mold and algae. Plants grew through it. Hair and fiber and fabric often end up in mouse and bird nests. If they can tie the fabric in Caylee's hair and on the duct tape to jean shorts they took of KC's or KC's blanket, pillow or her carpet...that would be a big deal.


imo
 
While it would certainly suggest something ominous to me if there were any fibres from KC's bed cover or carpet, I guess it really wouldn't mean much legally.. why wouldn't she have fibers from both the carpet and the bed, if she slept and played in that room a fair amount of the time?
Even fibers from the trunk wouldn't really carry much weight, fibres do get around, and a few fibers might well have got on her laundry, then been transfered to her hair, for example.
Still, it would be interesting to know where the fibres originated.. then we could make up our own minds about the route they took from their original article, to that little body.

Fibers from the Anthony house would place Caylee at the Anthony house during the last day of her life. If she struggled with KC on the floor or in KC's bed, it makes sense that fibers would end up in Caylee's hair. I think some fibers were found on the adhesive side of the tape too. That would happen if Caylee moved her head, got fiber in her hair and moist parts of her face and the tape went over it.
 
From what I've seen on Court TV and other programs, it doesn't seem that fiber matching is very conclusive. Most of the time it seems the best science can do is to say the fiber is similar to fibers found say in a Pontiac Firebird carpet but couldn't say it definitely came from a particular Firebird carpet. So, even if they had found fibers that might have come from her car, I don't see where that would have been great evidence. As other posters have stated, any fibers found that came from house or car really only prove that Caylee was in the house and car. Even fibers from KC's clothes wouldn't really prove that much, at least to me. To me it is the combination of all the circumstantial evidence that is going to prove this case, missing child for 31 days, telling no one, acting as everything is normal, stealing gas cans, borrowing shovels, panic when Dad gets near the trunk, telling friends her car smells due to a dead squirrel, car smelling like death, myspace posts regarding killing, searches for neck breaking, hair with death band in trunk and there are probably 20 more I'm leaving out. I just don't see this as a hard case to win. Poor little Caylee, I get sick reading these posts that speculate on KC holding her down to tape her little mouth. I hope that there was some drugs involved to sedate her, I really hope she didn't know what was happening.
 

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