First Reported Crime Facts - by raisincharlie

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Hi all.

Thought we might bring a couple of previous yet valuable posts across to save us hunting forever or repeating the exercise, lol!

For new posters and reminders to others in Michelle's forum, raisincharlie put this together for us! It might be a great start to a new thread - we can add & adjust as we move ahead?

This is charlie's work - might just stop those Chinese Whispers growing dragon's tails, lol!

Created and thus far amended by raisincharlie:

1. Husband leaves night before murder for a business trip.
2. Husband is last person to speak with wife at 11 pm.
3. Last person(s) known to see victim was (were) friend(s).
4. Wife is 4 months pregnant, therefore statistically at risk.
5. Husband phones SIL the next day asking to retrieve a fax from his home.
6. SIL finds murdered wife.
7. 2.5 year old child left alive and unharmed.
8. Dog in house.
9. Neighbors unaware of anything unusual except outside lights being on
a couple of days prior to the murder.
10. Husband on way to parents home when body is found.
11. Reported child in the neighborhood with supposed behavioral issues.
12. Wife previously lost a baby shortly after an auto accident.
13. Wife works flex time and may or may not have been expected at work.
14. Husband's vehicle is immediately impounded upon return to home area.
15. Husband retains lawyer at some point.
16. Sheriff's spokeswoman indicates the crime is not random.
17. LE indicates no "forced entry" at the crime scene.
18. Sheriff reports neighborhood is quiet with very few problems.
19. Police asked for information about events between 12 and 6 am.
20. Police investigate previous accident involving couple - May 2005.
21. Police have made no further appeals to the public for assistance.
22. Sheriff indicates in interview with Greta, no warrants obtained for collection of fingerprints of several people.
23. Husband complies with Non-testimonial order and gives samples requested in presence of his lawyer.
24. No external tip line established (police tip line exists).
25. No reward for information posted by sheriff or families.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It's going to be very interesting to compare the above - to the final outcome. Thanks again, charlie!

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Sorry this is long - and a repeat - want to f-fwd my rationale behind charlie's list above - as well as my thoughts behind 'actions':

So HERE are my cards:


Very early on our first thread, I believed this guy snuk back, did what he did and - when his "alibi" emerged, there was just FAR "too much going on". He had (IMO) taken far too much time and trouble to ENSURE he could be accounted for.

What he may not be able to account for ... is exactly WHO saw him when he was allegedly on his own at a Hotel, which we figured was approximately an hour away from home. When this over-cooked alibi emerged and with Jasonites rumoured assistance ... I instinctively felt:

He had a business trip on Friday 3 November; some 5 hours away.
At that stage no mention of visiting his parents came in

He MADE SURE he was seen leaving by more than one witness: bags and all.
Michelle had her regular friend/s over to watch Gray's Anatomy: 9:30 - 10:30

He was PARTICULAR about making a phone call at 11 pm, putting him out of town. (H = hearsay)
If true, this was within minutes getting to his room: instant call - showed care.

He apparently calls his wife the next day: no reply. (H)
If true, this action contrasts with previous evening's care/concern: he doesn't call MY's work, friends, family or the doctor and he assumes she at doctor. Does not appear concerned...

Meredith receives a call out of the blue to go by his house, collect a fax.
This is the first time he has ever asked Meredith to go to his home - for whatever reason.

It's not what LE/the press said, it's what they did not and have not said.
We heard nothing more about that supposed fax. We heard nothing about the business trip, allegedly in VA

Meredith obliges: blissfully unaware and unsuspecting; she believes MY is at work.
JY may have led her to believe MY was at work/doctor and he didn't want MY to see fax.

In all good faith, Meredith proceeds.
She arrives circa 1:25 ish if she called 911 within minutes, that is.

Meredith states dog was freaking out, MY cold and unable to move her; bloody footprints all over house.
First part of call, Meredith's anguish clear: baby in house, Meredith pulls herself together under guidance of 911 op. Established MY appears dead.

911-op gives her second strength: Meredith listens and tries to remain calm for Cassie; states MY supposed to be at work.
Cassie does not sound traumatised: coherent and articulate; no sound dog barking in background.

Meredith says "place doesn't look like it usually does"... Appears full rigor set in giving max 12 hours since TOD at thatb stage.
She only moves a pillow and reassures Cassie until EMS arrive.

The tape, I believe has been spliced at least 4 times.
The op, assumingly may have asked more details (anyone else there, are you safe, where is her spouse, etc)

Jason receives news between circa 2 and 3 pm on arrival his parents.
Visiting parents never came into this initially.

Just as Scott Peterson IMMEDIATELY pulled his Nerkely Mattina receipt, so Jason IMMEDIATELY pulls out his alibi.
Whereas ISP's ticket placed him at the site, JY's info places him outta sight. A new habit he's since enforced, IMO...

Sheriff emphatically reassures community & public not a random crime, no forced entry - death via blunt force trauma.
This, then, was someone known to Michelle, knew property; went specifically to murder MY.

By sewing together facts we know (vehicle impounded on arrival the following day - ..... a Saturday). Recall: Brent drove through the night to get help search for Laci.
Again: direct contrast with IMMEDIATE psyche behind the 'care' call from wherever the hotel was. Why not about turn and head back? What about Cassie? How could daddy assume baby OK? Begs question ... would YOU?

JY brings whole family down; lawyers up instantly with criminal defense attornies.
Court order then issued for all luggage, DNA samples etc, and car to be impounded.

No-one else issued Court Order: not last to be seen with MY - not the person to discover body.
They all complied instantly, forfeiting court order and assisting police.

Court order gives JY right to retain his silence. He does. In 3 weeks we learn he's spoken "only briefly" to LE. Extremely concerning.
This silent treatment continues. Just the day before he warmly (cunningly IMO) calls Meredith, he suddenly has nothing to say to them.

JY leaves house, moves in with his parents up to Brevard.
This isolates Michelle's family and leaving them perplexed, hurt, broken, confused.

MY's mom makes impassoned statement at funeral, leaves JY's name out completely. Claims "every faith" in LE.
JY avoids cameras and MY's family, no remote sign of unity between JY and MY's families.

Jason takes cassie with him back to Brevard. Rising icy atmosphere; JY says, does nothing.
Meanwhile, the Jasonites are in full Internet strength to spam (IMO) JY's wonderful, innocent, kind, goofy, nature; dispell suspicions and justify his every move, thought and reasoning

Earlier car accident emerges: May 2005.
MY was pregnant; loses baby. Heightens suspicions.

To me, it is not the WHO, BeeCharmer. It's the HOW, and exactly WHEN and ..... using WHAT!

The WHY? Well, I suggest we're able to consider the motive. Another sexual interest is involved, IMO, somewhere/somehow. If speculation is true divorce was mentioned ... well? JY only in his job at ChartOne 3 mos. He'd lose his house, custody and would look a jerk walking out on a young Young family. He wanted freedom. perhaps we might say, Jason Young wanted to be Forever Young ?

Thus far I feel he is responsible: he's acted rather like a cold, uncaring, class-act SOB since the murder and MY's family don't deserve that. It's unsavory he appears to have possibly tried to frame his own SIL; just the day before he was banking on her genuine confidence and trust to pick up and hide a fax. The tape is also telling, imo.

There's A LOT more we didn't hear on tape and A LOT more we will hear about all of the above.

And ... well, since 4 November, nothing's really changed. IMO, that is.

 

[lviola]

Sorry this is long - and a repeat - want to f-fwd my rationale behind charlie's list above - as well as my thoughts behind 'actions':

So HERE are my cards:


Very early on our first thread, I believed this guy snuk back, did what he did and - when his "alibi" emerged, there was just FAR "too much going on". He had (IMO) taken far too much time and trouble to ENSURE he could be accounted for.

What he may not be able to account for ... is exactly WHO saw him when he was allegedly on his own at a Hotel, which we figured was approximately an hour away from home. When this over-cooked alibi emerged and with Jasonites rumoured assistance ... I instinctively felt:

He had a business trip on Friday 3 November; some 5 hours away.
At that stage no mention of visiting his parents came in

He MADE SURE he was seen leaving by more than one witness: bags and all.
Michelle had her regular friend/s over to watch Gray's Anatomy: 9:30 - 10:30

He was PARTICULAR about making a phone call at 11 pm, putting him out of town. (H = hearsay)
If true, this was within minutes getting to his room: instant call - showed care.

He apparently calls his wife the next day: no reply. (H)
If true, this action contrasts with previous evening's care/concern: he doesn't call MY's work, friends, family or the doctor and he assumes she at doctor. Does not appear concerned...

Meredith receives a call out of the blue to go by his house, collect a fax.
This is the first time he has ever asked Meredith to go to his home - for whatever reason.

It's not what LE/the press said, it's what they did not and have not said.
We heard nothing more about that supposed fax. We heard nothing about the business trip, allegedly in VA

Meredith obliges: blissfully unaware and unsuspecting; she believes MY is at work.
JY may have led her to believe MY was at work/doctor and he didn't want MY to see fax.

In all good faith, Meredith proceeds.
She arrives circa 1:25 ish if she called 911 within minutes, that is.

Meredith states dog was freaking out, MY cold and unable to move her; bloody footprints all over house.
First part of call, Meredith's anguish clear: baby in house, Meredith pulls herself together under guidance of 911 op. Established MY appears dead.

911-op gives her second strength: Meredith listens and tries to remain calm for Cassie; states MY supposed to be at work.
Cassie does not sound traumatised: coherent and articulate; no sound dog barking in background.

Meredith says "place doesn't look like it usually does"... Appears full rigor set in giving max 12 hours since TOD at thatb stage.
She only moves a pillow and reassures Cassie until EMS arrive.

The tape, I believe has been spliced at least 4 times.
The op, assumingly may have asked more details (anyone else there, are you safe, where is her spouse, etc)

Jason receives news between circa 2 and 3 pm on arrival his parents.
Visiting parents never came into this initially.

Just as Scott Peterson IMMEDIATELY pulled his Nerkely Mattina receipt, so Jason IMMEDIATELY pulls out his alibi.
Whereas ISP's ticket placed him at the site, JY's info places him outta sight. A new habit he's since enforced, IMO...

Sheriff emphatically reassures community & public not a random crime, no forced entry - death via blunt force trauma.
This, then, was someone known to Michelle, knew property; went specifically to murder MY.

By sewing together facts we know (vehicle impounded on arrival the following day - ..... a Saturday). Recall: Brent drove through the night to get help search for Laci.
Again: direct contrast with IMMEDIATE psyche behind the 'care' call from wherever the hotel was. Why not about turn and head back? What about Cassie? How could daddy assume baby OK? Begs question ... would YOU?

JY brings whole family down; lawyers up instantly with criminal defense attornies.
Court order then issued for all luggage, DNA samples etc, and car to be impounded.

No-one else issued Court Order: not last to be seen with MY - not the person to discover body.
They all complied instantly, forfeiting court order and assisting police.

Court order gives JY right to retain his silence. He does. In 3 weeks we learn he's spoken "only briefly" to LE. Extremely concerning.
This silent treatment continues. Just the day before he warmly (cunningly IMO) calls Meredith, he suddenly has nothing to say to them.

JY leaves house, moves in with his parents up to Brevard.
This isolates Michelle's family and leaving them perplexed, hurt, broken, confused.

MY's mom makes impassoned statement at funeral, leaves JY's name out completely. Claims "every faith" in LE.
JY avoids cameras and MY's family, no remote sign of unity between JY and MY's families.

Jason takes cassie with him back to Brevard. Rising icy atmosphere; JY says, does nothing.
Meanwhile, the Jasonites are in full Internet strength to spam (IMO) JY's wonderful, innocent, kind, goofy, nature; dispell suspicions and justify his every move, thought and reasoning

Earlier car accident emerges: May 2005.
MY was pregnant; loses baby. Heightens suspicions.

To me, it is not the WHO, BeeCharmer. It's the HOW, and exactly WHEN and ..... using WHAT!

The WHY? Well, I suggest we're able to consider the motive. Another sexual interest is involved, IMO, somewhere/somehow. If speculation is true divorce was mentioned ... well? JY only in his job at ChartOne 3 mos. He'd lose his house, custody and would look a jerk walking out on a young Young family. He wanted freedom. perhaps we might say, Jason Young wanted to be Forever Young ?

Thus far I feel he is responsible: he's acted rather like a cold, uncaring, class-act SOB since the murder and MY's family don't deserve that. It's unsavory he appears to have possibly tried to frame his own SIL; just the day before he was banking on her genuine confidence and trust to pick up and hide a fax. The tape is also telling, imo.

There's A LOT more we didn't hear on tape and A LOT more we will hear about all of the above.

And ... well, since 4 November, nothing's really changed. IMO, that is.

Excellent post!

 

[fran]

I agree with everything you said PSA. :clap:

IMO, the things that really stand out at me are

1. First time Merideth is ever asked to go to the home when no one was there and voila, Michele has been murdered.

2. The NOT talking to LE except for the initial contact. He's got a high powered attorney to protect him! What's the deal?!

It's quite often the small detail, something obscure, that can lead to the perp's identity. It's been weeks! Doesn't this guy want his wife's murderer caught?

3. Like I said somewhere else, answering questions BEFORE they're asked, ie having his buds run around the internet posting JY's EXCUSES.

4. Alienation from the victim's mom and sister. That is a biggy, IMHO
Been there, done that (not murder), but the inlaws are family, for crying-out-loud! and this was their daughter and sister. This guy is cold, cold, cold! IMHO

I don't know what the motive is yet,.........$$$$??? gf???? bf???? FREEDOM???

IMO, IF JY did this, the motive COULD be very clear soon. On the other hand, we still may be scratching our heads for awhile as to the motive. Remember how long it took everyone to figure out SP's motive and it still wasn't all that clear except for the FREEDOM part.

Thanks PSA for bringing RS's list for it's own thread!

JMHO
fran

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Thank Iviola and fran: measuring against what we're know is generally a better bet. What we have in the first post is the list published or, connfirmed reports relating to the crime: this list may be added to as we go along ... but it's the interpretations. All of us will have a different take on each factor. Right now, and until more comes to light, I feel JY is involved.

We've been given, may a fraction of what lies behind this investigation. The balance of what is released might go another route altogether. For instance we've heard he's travelling to/from Raleigh regularly. I only hope he's made a concerted effort to meet with MY's family and LE in more depth. It's a pity (or is it ironic??) that when a brutal crime like this happens, some people have the right to be protected from investigators.

How far will this go? What if a juror one days claims he/she has the right to silence? far-fetched ... but...?

However, I cannot help but be guided by JY's actions before and since the murder. Some things do not make sense to me.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Two things make me think the husband is responsible:

1.) Calling the sister to go to the house when he had never done this before. She stated this was unusual.

2.) Not meeting with LE. I don't care HOW suspicious of LE this family claims to be, the mother of his child was murdered in their home! If he was innocent, he would want to help LE, not hide behind his "rights", which is what he is doing.

 

[raisincharlie]

Two things make me think the husband is responsible:

1.) Calling the sister to go to the house when he had never done this before. She stated this was unusual.

2.) Not meeting with LE. I don't care HOW suspicious of LE this family claims to be, the mother of his child was murdered in their home! If he was innocent, he would want to help LE, not hide behind his "rights", which is what he is doing.

Yes Ma'am !

 

[jilly]

Two things make me think the husband is responsible:

1.) Calling the sister to go to the house when he had never done this before. She stated this was unusual.

2.) Not meeting with LE. I don't care HOW suspicious of LE this family claims to be, the mother of his child was murdered in their home! If he was innocent, he would want to help LE, not hide behind his "rights", which is what he is doing.

I agree and can't believe how we haven't heard a peep from this guy pleading for information from the public. Instead his mother-in-law gets to do that by herself! Even if Michelle's mother and sister didn't have any use for him beforehand and pointed the finger at him after the murder, he could have still had his own press conference. It's making me think that this guy followed the Peterson case: What not to do!

And the fact that no reward has been offered. Maybe his family thinks the police should do that but in the meantime you can bet that they've handed over a big fat retainer to the lawyer!! What the heck is the matter with this family??

It would be interesting to know the background on this step dad McIntyre. Why does he not trust LE? Does he have a past experience with LE as someone else has previously suggested? Could it be something as simple as the Durham rape case or does it run deeper than that.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

What is the matter with the family is that they are far too much like the Petersons!

The next thing you know we'll see a picture of Jason's mother carrying an ironing board out of the house!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Imo, the most significant part of this case to date is LE impounded his vehicle and has kept it in their possession.

The summary and list are great though.

Sure doesn't look good for Jason. Now how long will we have to wait for the arrest?

IMO

Ocean

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

What is the matter with the family is that they are far too much like the Petersons!

The next thing you know we'll see a picture of Jason's mother carrying an ironing board out of the house!

LOL, although it's not funny, AS, I found myself chuckling reading that - now what on earth is amusing about this leaves little to be desired. Perhaps there is a part of me that remembers oh-so-well how Scott's clan, IMO, made fools of themselves... - or maybe their actions were just so head-shakingly ludicrous, one could only laugh at itn all, but not with it all...

Hmmmmm: when this does eventually burst right out into the open, I envisage some pretty acidic remarks, blame and banal accusations coming out.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Imo, the most significant part of this case to date is LE impounded his vehicle and has kept it in their possession.

The summary and list are great though.

Sure doesn't look good for Jason. Now how long will we have to wait for the arrest?

IMO

Ocean

Hey there, OCean ... charlie's list set the action-replay buttons for me:

For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

And, IMO, Jason Young has reacted quite the opposite of the norm. Seems like they have everything connected to JY: from his car, clothes, phones, laptop, attitude, to investigating said fax, said purse, said business meeting, said hotel, said calls, said timeline. If they're happy with their progress - as we've been advised - then maybe there's only one piece of the puzzle they have not got. And that, IMO, is slap-bang in the middle of the puzzle board:

Jason Young himself.

With his legal team, his metal weight is so heavily enforced, seems his magnetic charm has suddenly issued two south poles: he's pushing far too unnaturally hard against landing on LE's board!

 

[peepers20056]

He followed Sp. Map allthe way.:doh: :doh: :dance:

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I agree and can't believe how we haven't heard a peep from this guy pleading for information from the public. Instead his mother-in-law gets to do that by herself! Even if Michelle's mother and sister didn't have any use for him beforehand and pointed the finger at him after the murder, he could have still had his own press conference. It's making me think that this guy followed the Peterson case: What not to do!

And the fact that no reward has been offered. Maybe his family thinks the police should do that but in the meantime you can bet that they've handed over a big fat retainer to the lawyer!! What the heck is the matter with this family??

It would be interesting to know the background on this step dad McIntyre. Why does he not trust LE? Does he have a past experience with LE as someone else has previously suggested? Could it be something as simple as the Durham rape case or does it run deeper than that.

Hi jilly ... !

You've eclipsed my thoughts to a T. OK ... so it's fine to get a lawyer - but if it was me ...

I'd have turned around THEN AND THERE and headed back home.

If the drive was too much for me, I'd have asked LE, my Step-Father ~ or whomsoever was able - to immediately drive me back. Or I'd fly back ...

I simply wouldn't wait to travel the next day - this is not about convenience - this was my murdered wife and new baby ~ what about my toddler daughter??? How was she? Where was she??? Was she hurt??? I need to see her - I need to get her & NOW .. !!!!

NO WAYS would I have my Step Dad speak on my behalf about "doubting Law Enforcement" or anything else for that matter ...

NO WAYS would I seek a criminal defense attorney without first getting the facts from my wife's family and investigating officers - I WOULD DEMAND TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. They'd talk - I WOULD ASK the questions and make notes (if I was capable of standing up by then - as I'd possibly require sedating...).

I'd only just called my SIL to help me hide a surprise gift - NO WAY would I ice out my wife's family. Why? What for?

I'd offer a lie detector test - and would agree to take that detector test with my attorney present: THAT'S WHEN I'd consider my legal options.

Jason's action cause people to ask what he has to immediately defend?

 

[Bee Charmer]

Hi jilly ... !

You've eclipsed my thoughts to a T. OK ... so it's fine to get a lawyer - but if it was me ...

I'd have turned around THEN AND THERE and headed back home.

If the drive was too much for me, I'd have asked LE, my Step-Father ~ or whomsoever was able - to immediately drive me back. Or I'd fly back ...

I simply wouldn't wait to travel the next day - this is not about convenience - this was my murdered wife and new baby ~ what about my toddler daughter??? How was she? Where was she??? Was she hurt??? I need to see her - I need to get her & NOW .. !!!!

NO WAYS would I have my Step Dad speak on my behalf about "doubting Law Enforcement" or anything else for that matter ...

NO WAYS would I seek a criminal defense attorney without first getting the facts from my wife's family and investigating officers - I WOULD DEMAND TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. They'd talk - I WOULD ASK the questions and make notes (if I was capable of standing up by then - as I'd possibly require sedating...).

I'd only just called my SIL to help me hide a surprise gift - NO WAY would I ice out my wife's family. Why? What for?

I'd offer a lie detector test - and would agree to take that detector test with my attorney present: THAT'S WHEN I'd consider my legal options.

Jason's action cause people to ask what he has to immediately defend?

I agree with everything you say, but especially the part about the polygraph. If innocent, I would definetly take one. I don't know why any innocent person would not, they cannot be used against you in court and even if you fail, that can be chalked up to being upset and the police are aware of that. Nope, people who refuse to take one always look bad in my eyes.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with everything you say, but especially the part about the polygraph. If innocent, I would definitely take one. I don't know why any innocent person would not, they cannot be used against you in court and even if you fail, that can be chalked up to being upset and the police are aware of that. Nope, people who refuse to take one always look bad in my eyes.

Right. It looks bad that is for sure. Daniel Horowitz' advice to Jason is that he should have immediately cooperated with LE, offering to take a poly, anything that may help them find the killer.

I am leery of polys though. They told Steve Greone he failed one part of his and they even said that Ruth Lunsford's poly showed red flags. That information leaks out every time and it does harm the person especially if they are guilty of nothing.

IMO

Ocean

 

[close_enough]

Blunt Force Trauma

Blunt force trauma occurs whenever you make contact with a hard dull object in a way that hurts you. Abrasions are injuries that result in the removal of the superficial layer of skin:
1. Sliding abrasions occur when an object scrapes or brushes away the skin.
2. Stamp abrasions occur when a blunt object strikes the skin crushing it and leaving behind a raw area. These types of abrasions tend to be small and discreet and may reflect the general shape of the object that made them.
3. Patterned abrasions are a special type of stamp abrasion where the blunt object strikes you leaves its pattern or the pattern of clothing or any other material between the object and your skin.
Abrasions inflicted after death have a characteristic color and character that identify them as post mortem injuries. Because circulation has stopped blood cells and serum don’t accumulate at the injury so these scrapes take on a light brown parchment like appearance. If the abrasion occurs in an area of lividity it may s how some red discoloration but cutting into the tissue will reveal the absence of hemorrhage.(181 Lyle).

http://www.freewebs.com/forensicprofilers/forensicinformation.htm


there's a good chance that if LE hasn't found the weapon, they know what it was...

 

[close_enough]

clotting & drying times of blood....

The clotting and drying times of blood can be used to determine the time an offense was committed. Blood usually clots between 3 and 6 minutes after it has been shed. A medium velocity impact produced by a beating creates bloodstains with diameters of 1 millimeter or larger. During a beating with an instrument blood does not come to the surface immediately. After blood covers the area it will produce spatter and blood will adhere to the beating instrument.
As this is raised and swung back by the attacker it produces multiple cast off patterns along the path of travel. The minimum number of blows can be established by counting the individual cast off blood trails.
One additional blow should be added to the total because the first blow rarely produces a cast off pattern.(74-76 Wecht)

Normal clotting time for blood is 3-15 minutes but clotting time is extremely individual and can be affected by certain diseases and various medications.

When blood first begins to clot it forms a dark shiny jelly like mess. With time the clot begins to contract and separate from the yellowish serum. Investigators use the state of blood clotting as a rough guide to estimate how much time has passed since the blood was shed. If the blood is still liquid the bleeding occurred only a few minutes before. If it’s a shiny gelatinous pool, bleeding occurred less than an hour earlier and if the blood is separated into clot and serum several hours have probably passed.(86 Lyle).

http://www.freewebs.com/forensicprofilers/forensicinformation.htm