FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[SuziQ]

** links pre-approved by mods/admin - do NOT take this as free rein to post non-MSM from YouTube**
There's been some very good engineering info shared on this thread but it's challenging for us laypeople to parse through. In reading last night, I found a Youtube link to a source that was quite informative. I normally wouldn't ask to post any YT sources, but in this case, I requested and received the ok to post. The source is president of a Southwest Florida firm that specializes in engineering consulting for condo associations (and HOAs/individuals). His analyses of the existing specs and reports that have been made public were helpful to me in trying to understand what various engineering info means. Please note that he does not have or claim to have personal knowledge of the structure - his opinions are based on the same publicly available reports and documents that we sleuthers have shared here. Still, it's helpful to some of us to have some of the technobabble broken down into plainer language.

It seems he's posting while on vacation this week; I haven't seen him quoted in MSM yet.
video:

and

To help members judge the video's source, here's his licensing info in FL (licensed since 2008): Date From
and company web page also confirming identity: Staff – Consult Engineering
** again, links pre-approved by mods/admin - do NOT take this as free rein to post non-MSM from YouTube**

I'm quoting your post again as I am recalling something that this guy said. He had an issue with the inspection reports. He said (paraphrasing) that the language in them would raise alarms to another engineer. But would seem to be not a big deal to a lay person (HOA's etc.). For example "timely manner" would mean different things to different people.

My husband, a retired engineer, has said it is really hard to get lay people to understand that you can't patch and paint over a spalling issue. That it is very dangerous to do so. But reconstruction is very expensive and some building owners choose the cheaper route of patching and paint. My husband thinks there was alot of patching and painting for decades and the real problem hidden until it got very bad as seen in the inspection pictures.

 

[moonlessnight]

There are multiple major white flashes coming from behind the building at ground level before, during, and after the collapse. It is possible some building shifting or event in the parking garage caused the transformer room to explode, but more likely the transformer room experienced multiple explosions (due to unknown reason) and brought the building down.

if this had been caused by a bomb or any sort of explosive device, all the windows in the neighboring buildings would have been blown out. In Oklahoma City, all the glass was gone in every building around the site.

The lights you are seeing are just lights in apartments. When you begin to see flashes, it’s a combination of those apartment lights being obscured by dust and then unobscured... And electrical arcs from live wiring being forcefully snapped in half.

Can you explain your theory on what Argentina has to do with this? I’m confused about your last two paragraphs. Is the implication that this was some sort of Argentinian bombing?

I’m genuinely surprised anyone is considering this was caused by an explosion. All of the evidence is pointing to the structural failure caused by failing support beams in the parking garage.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't believe it was a bomb. Nothing to do with Argentina - I included the quoted post for the first 2 paragraph statements by local authorities.

I think electricity or some sort of combustion played a role. Controlled demolitions do not blow out windows of neighboring buildings. Although some of the lights seen prior to the collapse may have been lights on in some apts, and some may have been transformers blowing or live wires, I don't believe all of them were. No building is going to collapse due to degradation over time and leave that kind of (relatively) clean break. I will try to upload the building's blueprints. The building was sheared clean off from N-S along the hallway/stair, and elevator line between apartments without variation and without random chunks breaking off. All the apts on the eastern wall remain in tact. All the apts west of the North-South hallway are gone. The entire SW section of the building is untouched.

On the ground floor, the room adjacent to where the building sheared off was the transformer vault, and this appears to be where the large white flashes originated behind the building in the video, and reflected off the elevator control room on the roof. Maybe some kind of major electrical event in the transformer room occurred. or maybe someone wanted that part of the building gone so they could rebuild without paying for repairs to the existing structure. It would be very interesting to know what kinds of repairs were needed (if any) to the remaining (ETA existing) section of building.

The building would not disintegrate and turn to dust unless there was major seismic activity - sinkhole, earthquake, explosions, or severe fire damage to all building supports. I can't imagine they built a building with only one primary support.

Screen shot at 9:32.20 AM is the floor plan. The building was sheared off exactly at the D point from north to south (ETA - this is the east wall of the hallway).
Screen shot at 9:32.33 AM is the ground level blueprint with the transformer vault, electrical room (with electrical ground) and trash room running in a line abutting the D point (east wall of hallway) from the floor plan blueprint from North-South. Maybe something started a fire in the trash room and triggered the electrical room and the transformer vault exploded multiple times. That would explain those flashes on the video and the noise survivors describe.

From O/P

"Maybe something started a fire in the trash room and triggered the electrical room and the transformer vault exploded multiple times. That would explain those flashes on the video and the noise survivors describe."

"I think electricity or some sort of combustion played a role."

Sorry, not following this post and O/P logic states electrical brought down the pool deck, the center building, the back was to that building, and the left building. Electricity did such? I discount 100% MOO. Those were ALL after the building was collapsing. MOO. Why do you submit your opinion such caused from the information we have? Do you disbelieve the videos and think that they are a hoax?
​

"I can't imagine they built a building with only one primary support."

Ummm, where did you get that idea that the building had only one primary support. We have on threads, you may have missed, the screen shots and the many many many supports in those shared in threads. Did you not see such. VERY intriguing that you are stating only one primary support. I've not seen any such thing, and to me MOO, that isn't even logical that a building had one primary support so 99.99 % here would not agree with you as we have all seen on threads that is INCORRECT information. So lay that to bed MOO.

​

Also MOO, that the first videos were of organizations below the pools deck collapse. MOO I would think that one thing they would do first and would have come out was if explosives were used to collapse such.

I don't think there is a cover up as to bombs either as someone suggested upthread. MOO they would have sensors for "fumes" if that have happened.

MOO... conspiracy theories are starting on MSM now......... not going there myself.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

A resident from apt #611 escaped just before the collapse. She fled her apartment after hearing noises and seeing a large crack appear in a wall. I wonder how much time has elapsed from the first signs until the collapse.

Posted earlier by someone else: Florida survivor recalls escape from collapsing condo

Wow. I'd like to think that I would have the presence of mind to react as quickly as this lady! I did wonder about elevators being non-operational for the upper floors. Thank goodness that she was able to get down the stairs that quickly.

The article says that she purchased her unit for $600,000 in December. So, she was fairly new to the building. It's a good thing that she knew where the stairs were to exit so quickly!

JMO.

 

[Chelly]

Okay CHELLY.....now you have me going down that "what if" rabbit hole. Soooooo, If you were privy to a report that was going to affect the value of your largest real estate holding (let's say $15,000,000 minimum), what would you do?
A. Immediately share the information with all the stake holders.
B. Put your property up for sale before the news hits the market.
C. Ignore the information and continue to watch the deterioration
D. Pay off an official to keep their mouth shut, then put my property up for sale.
E. All of the above scenarios are absolutely ridiculous, huh. Because everybody reads structural engineering reports, right?
(....of course I am wondering if the stake holders had access to the same reports I read. I wish owners or former owners could tell us if they had access to the reports produced in 2018?)

In answer to your question to me: If, in my capacity as a town official, I was aware of the engineer's report, I would have reported the information with the share holders at the assembled meeting. I would not have owned a piece of that property myself.

 

[PayrollNerd]

I apologize in advance for the nature of this question. But I’m wondering why finding the victims has not become easier based on the odor of decomposition. How long does it typically take a body to give off decomposition gases?

I always refer to the putrefaction timeline on Wikipedia. Of course the environment plays a role. In SE FL, even seaside, the heat of June can definitely speed up the process.

Putrefaction - Wikipedia

 

[Katerz]

I have a severe fear of heights (even standing on a 2 step step stool scares the beep out of me) and something like this happening is one of my worst nightmares. I cannot imagine the sheer terror those people felt in the middle of the night. It’s been back to back tragedies here in Florida. This happened, then my neighbor was killed in a car accident in GA along with her unborn child and 3 year old daughter. I didn’t really pay much attention to this because of that going on. From the videos and pictures I’ve seen (and I’m no expert lol), the inner section that collapsed first and the area around the pool all seemed to go in one direction. IMO whatever caused the collapse happened underneath where the middle section of the building was. I believe the death toll will most likely reach that 150+ that’s missing. It would be a miracle at this point if anyone else was still alive especially if they were on those lower floors. I pray that their families find healthy ways to cope with their losses, because it’s catastrophic.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/28/erick-de-moura-condo-collapse-florida/


He wanted to head home to Champlain Towers. His girlfriend wanted him to stay. She may have saved his life

June 28, 2021 at 5:42 a.m. EDT
Erick De Moura woke up at about 5:30 a.m. Thursday to use the bathroom. He was at his girlfriend’s house — a rare occurrence on a weeknight — and walked into the kitchen to get his phone.

That’s when he saw all the calls and text messages.

One text in particular stood out — it was from Rochelle, a doorman supervisor at his building on Collins Avenue in Surfside, Fla., asking if he was okay.

“Oh, my God, you’re alive,” Rochelle said to De Moura, 40, when she answered his call.

“What do you mean I’m alive?” he responded in a sleepy haze.

“The building collapsed,” she said.

Then came the sinking feeling, the confusion and denial. Maybe she meant a wall fell down or there was water in his unit, he thought.

“What do you mean the building collapsed?” De Moura said.

Rochelle then sent a picture of the rubble and debris that was once his home...................

More at link

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Can someone please post the media thread for this? I'm looking for something specific to comment on right now, and I cannot find media thread for this.



TIA

ETA: I still cannot find a media thread for this tragedy of our lifetime. Again, can someone link please as I know there must be one at WS as WS does historical posts of MSM.

TIA

 

[sds71]

statement from engineering firm :



https://twitter.com/jkbjournalist/status/1409574099068784648/photo/1
Morabito Consultants Issues Statement on Building Collapse in Surfside, Fla.

 

[Chelly]

Live updates: Florida condo collapse survivors and death toll

10 people are dead and 151 people are unaccounted for after a residential building partially collapsed in Surfside, Florida, Thursday.

• Search and rescue teams continue to race to find survivors. The missing are from at least nine countries, including six Latin American countries, and multiple faith communities.

• Emergency officials are also asking people to call 305-614-1819 if they have relatives who are unaccounted for.

• The cause of the collapse is still unknown, but new details are emerging about the integrity of the structure noted in an engineering report in 2018.

 

[moonriverfarm]

One of the most heartbreaking stories I have read is the one about the land line repeatedly calling family members, who answered the calls to hear nothing but static. What if the family members trapped really were trying to call out from a pocket under the rubble? Gut wrenching.

 

[PayrollNerd]

In Florida, the email of public officials is normally public record, so should be available for public records requests. Also, I didn't see a MSM link in the original post, but here's one from NY Post: Ex-inspector denies getting copy of damning Florida condo study

It is possible he's forgotten but like you say, it can be tracked. It also could be a misstep in the email too.

I used to work for a payroll software company, so lots of important emails dealing with lots of important people and millions of dollars. One time this owner sent an email to his rep who had the same first name as me but spelled differently. He went up the food chain screaming my name, swearing up and down he emailed me and I was to blame for whatever. Ummm, wrong email...... oh, and his rep was on vacation.... what a fiasco that was, poor guy.

 

[moonlessnight]

“There’s no reason for this building to go down like that,” Burkett said, “unless someone literally pulls out the supports from underneath, or they get washed out, or there’s a sinkhole or something like that, because it just went down.”

"I mean it looks like a bomb went off, but we're pretty sure a bomb didn't go off," the mayor told NBC’s “TODAY” show.

“I’ve been here since 1993, and I’ve never seen something like this happen,” Zalewski added, referring to Thursday’s condo collapse. “You would think any problems that large would have been detectable. If a recertification was being done, expect reports that say what problems currently exist in the building.”

“I have a feeling that something else is going to be discovered that happened that we can’t assume right off the bat,” Zalewski added.

Collapsed Miami condo was built on a barrier island, which scientists say presents risks

 

[moonlessnight]

"The Champlain Towers East Condo Association recently hired an engineer to develop specifications for electrical and structural changes needed to obtain the recertification, a requirement"
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252325063.html

start at 1:11

 

[sds71]

SURFSIDE, Fla.—The developers of the collapsed Surfside condominium tower worked around local building codes by adding a penthouse that wasn’t part of the original plan, a review of town building records shows.

Plans submitted by the developer of the Champlain Towers South initially called for 12 floors of residential units. The developer decided to add a penthouse, which increased the building’s height by 15 feet with an additional floor. That put the tower slightly above the town’s legal height ordinance at the time.

The property owners built the penthouse after the Surfside town commission granted a special exemption to local height limits, according to a 1981 article in the Miami Herald. That allowed for these rooftop apartments at Champlain Towers South and a little later at Champlain Towers North, which was built around the same time.

It isn’t clear if the addition of a penthouse put undue stress on the south tower, though any possible irregularity related to the building is receiving new attention from local authorities and engineers after its sudden collapse.

Miami-Area Condo That Collapsed Skirted Local Codes With Penthouse

 

[SuziQ]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252394393.html

Snipped
That is little solace for Cordaro, whose condo unit is gone, demolished in a massive tangle of crumbled concrete and bent rebar. She and her husband, Francisco Cordaro, would have been in their home when the building collapsed early Thursday, but instead they had made a fortunate decision to return to New York for business.

The Cordaros bought their condo in 2019 for $525,000 because Miami reminded her of their native Sicily. The home inspection revealed nothing unusual, but Rosalia said she and the neighbors she became friends with would talk about “little things that bothered us.”

Her front door never closed properly. There was always water leaking into the garage. And when she and her friend, Linda March, sat by the pool, they noticed cracks in the foundation.

When they asked the building manager about it, “They would always say: ‘Don’t worry about it. We’re going to fix that’,’’ Cordaro said. “And when I would complain about the [garage] cracks, nobody listened to me.”

 

[dixiegirl1035]

One of the most heartbreaking stories I have read is the one about the land line repeatedly calling family members, who answered the calls to hear nothing but static. What if the family members trapped really were trying to call out from a pocket under the rubble? Gut wrenching.

Do you have a link? Is it in a media thread here at Websleuths? Has WS created a media thread for years from now ?

 

[GatorFL]

Do you have a link? Is it in a media thread here at Websleuths? Has WS created a media thread for years from now ?

Google works good: Grandparents’ landline keeps dialing grandson from collapsed Florida building — and there’s no one there

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Google works good: Grandparents’ landline keeps dialing grandson from collapsed Florida building — and there’s no one there

Thanks for that family MSM report.

This is going to go on for years.

Again, can someone like to the MSM Websleuths "media only/no comment" thread. I cannot find it and just know there must be one...???