FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[GatorFL]

Thanks for that family MSM report.

This is going to go on for years.

Again, can someone like to the MSM Websleuths "media only/no comment" thread. I cannot find it and just know there must be one...???

As far as I know there are not dedicated media threads for topics, just the general one here: ***BREAKING NEWS!*** *NO DISCUSSION*
Maybe click "report" on your post and ask a mod?

 

[Antimony]

IMO the lights that briefly appeared during the collapse were battery powered emergency lights. These are usually required in hallways and such. Many people have them in their homes. They will come on to show the way out during power failures and will automatically come on during a fire alarm. They went on briefly and then off due to the collapse.
IMO

 

[IQuestion]

In answer to your question to me: If, in my capacity as a town official, I was aware of the engineer's report, I would have reported the information with the share holders at the assembled meeting. I would not have owned a piece of that property myself.

CHELLY....Thank you for your thoughtful reply. (I always look forward to your posts.) I totally agree the information should have been shared.
I can't speak for others, but I am a proponent of full and fair disclosure of all available information. ie "Just give me the truth and the facts.... then I can proceed on what I need to do for my family." Dang, I can't reconcile the information in the structural report & need for a $12,000,000 for repairs on one hand versus never saw a report & the building is in good shape on the other. The pendulum swings wide.

 

[Alethea]

Thanks for that family MSM report.

This is going to go on for years.

Again, can someone like to the MSM Websleuths "media only/no comment" thread. I cannot find it and just know there must be one...???

Media threads are usually created in complicated investigations and cases that will stretch years through a trial. However, I'm sure you can ask a mod or create one for this case if you'd like to compile the articles into one location. I don't think there's any hard and fast rule about when a media thread can be created but you can always ask.

 

[GatorFL]

CHELLY....Thank you for your thoughtful reply. (I always look forward to your posts.) I totally agree the information should have been shared.
I can't speak for others, but I am a proponent of full and fair disclosure of all available information. ie "Just give me the truth and the facts.... then I can proceed on what I need to do for my family." Dang, I can't reconcile the information in the structural report & need for a $12,000,000 for repairs on one hand versus never saw a report & the building is in good shape on the other. The pendulum swings wide.

BBM: Isn't that how it always is with something like this? One party is raising a red flag and the other is saying, "move along, nothing to see here."

It sounds like this is going to change building inspections here in FL for the better. Multiple municipalities are going to start inspections immediately on multistory buildings. Sad a bunch of people had to die to make it happen.

 

[juli99]

Something about this whole situation is eerie to me, which is why I've followed from the start. If it's at all linked to climate change, is this just the beginning of a series of catastrophes? What's unique about this building in comparison to its sister building two doors north? Why is it still standing and this one is not? Those are the questions I'd be asking. Apparently, nobody thought there was an urgent issue at this condo building. Could you really predict this outcome and then just go about your day?

 

[Warwick1991]

IMO the lights that briefly appeared during the collapse were battery powered emergency lights. These are usually required in hallways and such. Many people have them in their homes. They will come on to show the way out during power failures and will automatically come on during a fire alarm. They went on briefly and then off due to the collapse.
IMO

Some of the bright lights seemed to be brief flashes from the interior of 2 apartments. IMO these might have been electrical arcs, part of the process of wires snapping. Or, doomed people may have put lights on to see what was going on, but the power went out...

 

[GatorFL]

Something about this whole situation is eerie to me, which is why I've followed from the start. If it's at all linked to climate change, is this just the beginning of a series of catastrophes? What's unique about this building in comparison to its sister building two doors north? Why is it still standing and this one is not? Those are the questions I'd be asking. Apparently, nobody thought there was an urgent issue at this condo building. Could you really predict this outcome and then just go about your day?

That's a big IF, nobody has linked it to climate change yet. What is known is that salt water is incredibly corrosive and the garage flooded at the 8777 frequently.

 

[fred&edna]

Did I miss this info about a searcher falling ?

 

[realanastasia]

I believe it was a police chief talking about his mom? He was allowed on site early on. I doubt a police chief would lie. Who knows.

North Bay Village police chief finds signs of hope after mother is victim of building collapse

 

[juli99]

That's a big IF, nobody has linked it to climate change yet. What is known is that salt water is incredibly corrosive and the garage flooded at the 8777 frequently.

I guess the question is why did the garage flood frequently and does the same thing happen at the identical building two doors north? The other thing that seems to be unique to this building is that it was identified as an anomaly as far as the rate of its sinking.

 

[TexLil]

Some of the bright lights seemed to be brief flashes from the interior of 2 apartments. IMO these might have been electrical arcs, part of the process of wires snapping. Or, doomed people may have put lights on to see what was going on, but the power went out...

Thank you both for these thoughts on the lights which ever so briefly come to life only to be extinguished forever.

Those two little lights have haunted me.

They represent normalcy. It's as if a heart and soul human being turned them on after being abruptly awakened from slumber. Who among us wouldn't grab for a light when hearing such a terrifying sound (and likely feeling movement)? My hope is the lives lost passed quickly from this world. May their souls rest in everlasting peace. MOO

 

[sds71]

There was nothing unusual about the lobby and pool area at Champlain Towers South condo, which looked clean and well maintained to a commercial pool contractor who visited the building last Tuesday, just 36 hours before half of the building unexpectedly collapsed. Then, he saw the basement-level garage.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
“There was standing water all over the parking garage,” the contractor, who asked not to be named, told the Miami Herald. He noted cracking concrete and severely corroded rebar under the pool.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
He also took photos, which he shared with the Herald.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html

 

[GatorFL]

I guess the question is why did the garage flood frequently and does the same thing happen at the identical building two doors north? The other thing that seems to be unique to this building is that it was identified as an anomaly as far as the rate of its sinking.

It has been published there were leaks from the pool, that the pool deck was not angled properly. Also, general elevation, how the road is built, and other factors influence flooding in one area while other areas closely may not flood at all.

From NY Times:

Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

But solving the problem of water leaking down from the pool area into the garage was going to involve major work and cost millions of dollars.

"At the ground level of the complex, vehicles can drive in next to a pool deck where residents would lounge in the sun. Mr. Morabito in 2018 said that the waterproofing below the pool deck and entrance drive was failing, “causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas.”

The report added that “failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially.” The problem, he said, was that the waterproofing was laid on a concrete slab that was flat, not sloped in a way that would allow water to run off, an issue he called a “major error” in the original design. The replacement would be “extremely expensive,” he warned, and cause a major disturbance to residents.

In the parking garage, which largely sits at the bottom level of the building, part of it under the pool deck, Mr. Morabito said that there were signs of distress and fatigue."

 

[sds71]

GUPTA: I think about what has happened here, and part of me sort of wonders, were there any signs?

K. SPIEGEL: This is a fairly modern building. It's only 40 years old. If you look at some of the buildings around us, the one next door is actually brand-new. But the one next to it is probably 50 or 60 years old. And it appears to be fine. But this past weekend there was some water in the garage, and it was coming up. Whether that was the real sign that there was something wrong, I don't know. It would be interesting to find out what the manager did or didn't do that they were supposed to do to find out what was going on…

GUPTA: People all over the world are paying attention right now to what's happening here. What do you want them to know about this place, this community?

K. SPIEGEL: I think that deferring maintenance in the building and all the politics of being part of a condominium where people actually have a voice and a vote, deferring maintenance because you're afraid of your maintenance going up is probably not the right decision for everybody. So my real decision -- my real recommendation to you all is to invest in the infrastructure, to invest in preventative maintenance in your building so something horrific like this doesn't occur.

Son of missing woman: "I hope and pray she's found soon...but it's not a promising sight if you've been here"

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[dotr]

Monday, June 28, 2021 3:43PM EDT rbbm.
Rescuers: Survivors could still be inside collapsed building
''SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) - Rescue workers digging for a fifth day into the remnants of a collapsed Florida condo building stressed Monday that they could still find survivors in the rubble, a hope family members clung to even though no one has been pulled out alive since the first hours after the structure fell.''

''Andy Alvarez, a deputy incident commander with Miami-Dade Fire Rescue, told ABC's “Good Morning America” that rescuers have been able to find some voids inside the wreckage, mostly in the basement and the parking garage.''

“We have been able to tunnel through the building,” Alvarez added. “This is a frantic search to seek that hope, that miracle, to see who we can bring out of this building alive.”

''Israeli Diaspora Affairs Minister Nachman Shai, head of a humanitarian delegation from Israel that includes several search-and-rescue experts, said professionals have told him of cases where survivors were found after 100 hours or more.

“So don't lose hope, that's what I would say,” he said.''

 

[Chelly]

BBM: Isn't that how it always is with something like this? One party is raising a red flag and the other is saying, "move along, nothing to see here."

It sounds like this is going to change building inspections here in FL for the better. Multiple municipalities are going to start inspections immediately on multistory buildings. Sad a bunch of people had to die to make it happen.

This needs to be more than a wake-up-call. This needs to be the beginning of the end of the high-rise craze on our country's eroding beaches! I know it is easier said than done, but get those monstrosities repaired or get them evacuated and imploded. How much are those lives worth?

 

[JMapes]

Monday, June 28, 2021 3:43PM EDT rbbm.
Rescuers: Survivors could still be inside collapsed building
''SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) - Rescue workers digging for a fifth day into the remnants of a collapsed Florida condo building stressed Monday that they could still find survivors in the rubble, a hope family members clung to even though no one has been pulled out alive since the first hours after the structure fell.''

''Andy Alvarez, a deputy incident commander with Miami-Dade Fire Rescue, told ABC's “Good Morning America” that rescuers have been able to find some voids inside the wreckage, mostly in the basement and the parking garage.''

“We have been able to tunnel through the building,” Alvarez added. “This is a frantic search to seek that hope, that miracle, to see who we can bring out of this building alive.”

''Israeli Diaspora Affairs Minister Nachman Shai, head of a humanitarian delegation from Israel that includes several search-and-rescue experts, said professionals have told him of cases where survivors were found after 100 hours or more.

“So don't lose hope, that's what I would say,” he said.''

I would have a lot more hope of rescuers finding additional survivors, had any of the building residents been in the parking garage at the time of the collapse. However, at 1:30am, I'd wager that most, if not all residents who were home at the time, were asleep in their beds. MOO.

(Of course I'd love to be wrong.)

 

[PayrollNerd]

This needs to be more than a wake-up-call. This needs to be the beginning of the end of the high-rise craze on our country's eroding beaches! I know it is easier said than done, but get those monstrosities repaired or get them evacuated and imploded. How much are those lives worth?

I keep saying by the time it’s all said and done, I’ll have oceanfront property. I’m not in a flood zone or even an evacuation zone. But I’m sure at some point, a hurricane will come along and wipe out Siesta Key and Longboat Key condos. People keep right on building out there. I guess the Dolphin Towers debacle wasn’t enough of a wake up call. Sigh.

 

[IceIce9]

This needs to be more than a wake-up-call. This needs to be the beginning of the end of the high-rise craze on our country's eroding beaches! I know it is easier said than done, but get those monstrosities repaired or get them evacuated and imploded. How much are those lives worth?

I have spent quite a bit of time walking on beaches, my steps sliding on the shifting sand, looking at the high rise condos and resorts built on the sand, wondering what marvels of engineering allowed the many-storied buildings to stand?