FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

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Ugh. Really? Says who? Using what exactly as a measure? And please provide proof of correlation and causation, not just anecdotal "back in my day" kind of justification?

Familial and societal connections are suffering. Children need their parents around.
One study done in Australia https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/27357012?selectedversion=NBD41406906

“This study demonstrates the connection between changing working patterns and a general decline in wellbeing associated with relationships - particularly those in families, but also including friendships and participation in the broader community. The cold statistics hide immense human tragedy. If the link between working patterns and family disintegration is accepted, it is incumbent on political leaders to take urgent action to address working time issues - so as to avert emerging social and economic repercussions, and to ensure a stable and sustainable society in the future.'”


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So I understand there's no gun control debate going on here, and I get why. But I don't understand all these posts about day care centers? And women not staying home and taking care of their babies? It's OK to debate getting in a time capsule back to 1952. All righty then.

Some of us were trying to look at things that have changed now compared to the years before these school shootings started. I personally am only trying to look for answers as to how this has escalated over the years, not condemn anyone.
 
Another scholarly article regarding multigenerational familial bonds.
http://www.unc.edu/~ldpearce/soci820/Readings/bengston.pdf

If the aunt (cousin?) quoted in the news was correct, these boys only met their maternal extended family once. I’ve seen zilch from their deceased father’s family in the media.


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Some of us were trying to look at things that have changed now compared to the years before these school shootings started. I personally am only trying to look for answers as to how this has escalated over the years, not condemn anyone.

What are differences from 1952 to now? Violence in movies. Violence in video games. Violence on TV. Violence on the Internet. There were guns on TV back then, but the results were not shown.
 
Familial and societal connections are suffering. Children need their parents around.
One study done in Australia https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/27357012?selectedversion=NBD41406906

“This study demonstrates the connection between changing working patterns and a general decline in wellbeing associated with relationships - particularly those in families, but also including friendships and participation in the broader community. The cold statistics hide immense human tragedy. If the link between working patterns and family disintegration is accepted, it is incumbent on political leaders to take urgent action to address working time issues - so as to avert emerging social and economic repercussions, and to ensure a stable and sustainable society in the future.'”


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Thank you for providing link. I appreciate that you offered it :)

I found an interesting article.

"So the good news, if you think things are getting worse, is that you may be suffering from the psychology of declinism, rather than actual decline."

More at https://www.wbs.ac.uk/news/why-we-think-life-was-better-in-the-good-old-days/

Don't get me wrong--I'm eternally grateful for the fact I had a stay at home mom. I just worry when there seems to be broad assumptions and statements.
 
What are differences from 1952 to now? Violence in movies. Violence in video games. Violence on TV. Violence on the Internet. There were guns on TV back then, but the results were not shown.
A lot of things weren't shown or discussed but they were present! Every era has its strengths. I certainly don't want to bring back the rampant, commonly acceptable sexism, lack of tolerance for people of color and interracial relationships, child abuse that was ignored and swept under the rug, lack of environmental concern, lack of affordable accessable birth control, and on and on.

Imo it really wasn't better.
 
Another scholarly article regarding multigenerational familial bonds.
http://www.unc.edu/~ldpearce/soci820/Readings/bengston.pdf

If the aunt (cousin?) quoted in the news was correct, these boys only met their maternal extended family once. I’ve seen zilch from their deceased father’s family in the media.


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Barbara Kumbatovich told Newsday Thursday she met Nikolas Cruz and his brother, Zachary, only once, when they were 3 or 4 years old, after Linda and Roger Cruz moved from Farmingdale to Florida, where they adopted the pair.

https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/florida-shooter-cruz-long-island-1.16781810

Records show Roger Cruz died in 2004, and the aunt said the boys were all her sister-in-law had and she tried to get them through the loss.


NC dob 9/1998 if he was 2 when adopted 2000, he may not remember roger. My daughter bio dad left when she was 4, she forgot about him in a month & never asked about him after.
 
Here’s a timeline, see full article for expanded timeline with tweets .

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/t...-high-school-shooting/8k6E9rQevLWBlkf0Ix4JsK/

The times were gathered from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office timeline provided Thursday, Palm Beach Post coverage or through Twitter.

2:19 p.m.: Suspect Nikolas Cruz is dropped off at Douglas High by an Uber. He entered the east stairwell and pulled his rifle out of its case, sheriff’s deputies say.

2:21 p.m.: Cruz begins shooting into classrooms.

Around 2:30 p.m.: The fire alarm is pulled, presumably by Cruz.

2:32 p.m.: First tweet regarding a shooter “at my school.”

2:34 p.m.: Coral Springs PD tells people to avoid the Douglas High School area due to an active police scene.

2:44 p.m.: First known media report of a shooting and a lockdown at Douglas.

2:55 p.m.: Reports of at least five injuries after shooting.
In another report soon after, the number quickly jumps to 20 hurt.


3:01 p.m.: Deputies say Cruz went to McDonald’s and sat down.

3:10 p.m.: Another student tweets: Still locked in.

3:24 p.m.: Police issue a “be on the lookout” alert for a person who left the shooting scene.

3:36 p.m.: First reports of a death at Douglas.


3:41 p.m.: Broward deputies detain Cruz in Coral Springs.


3:45 p.m.: Gov. Scott says he has spoken with Trump regarding Douglas High.

3:50 p.m.: Trump extends condolences, then shortly thereafter says he has discussed the situation with Scott and law enforcement.

4:11 p.m.: The Broward Sheriff’s Office reports the shooter is in custody.

4:34 p.m.: Reports of seven fatalities at Douglas.

4:48 p.m.: The gunman, identified as Nikolas Cruz, is taken to a hospital.

5:39 p.m.: Broward’s schools superintendent shares his thoughts.

6:31 p.m.: Broward Sheriff Scott Israel says 17 people are dead.




Thank you!!
 
It’s 17 pages, take your time and read it.

https://www.counseling.org/docs/default-source/vistas/school-shootings-and-student-mental-health.p

7d5867afd3d34c296de0c3f7d4c58647.jpg


4dac92d25f21d5bff3a1c7b88323be5e.jpg



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Ha if you never hear me from again that means the Broward county got mad at me !!

I just asked them if they could find somewhere else to hold the pressers cause of the background noises!!!
 
Florida Gov. Rick Scott calls for FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign in wake of Parkland school shooting

“An apology will never bring these 17 Floridians back to life or comfort the families who are in pain. The families will spend a lifetime wondering how this could happen, and an apology will never give them the answers they desperately need,” he said in a statement.

“We constantly promote ‘see something, say something,’ and a courageous person did just that to the FBI. And the FBI failed to act. ‘See something, say something’ is an incredibly important tool and people must have confidence in the follow through from law enforcement. The FBI Director needs to resign.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-resign-in-wake-parkland-school-shooting.html


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I’m not sure if this is correct. I don’t think the alarm was pulled until he was inside. There was a student interviewed who came into contact with the shooter while he was loading the gun and he said Nikolas told him to get out because things were going to get messy and that the alarms were not going off at that time.

Link? I'd like to get it clarified in the thread if this local source is indeed incorrect.

Thank you. :eek:

I’ll look for a link. He was interviewed on CNN yesterday.

I also saw that as well.
The student said he came face to face with Cruz who told him to get out because things were going to get messy, Cruz had not pulled the fire alarm yet.


Nikolas Cruz warned freshman before shooting: 'You'd better get out of here'
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...a-school-shooting-mckenna-20180215-story.html

........As he made his way out of the building, he said, he saw assistant football coach Aaron Feis unlocking a gate in preparation for dismissal.

“I told him I saw a gun,” McKenna said. “He said ‘let me go check it out.’ Then he drove me to the baseball field, dropped me off, and went back to the school. That’s the last I saw of him.”

McKenna said he was still with Feis when he heard the fire alarm that precipitated the rampage."
 
It’s so upsetting to hear the FBI was contacted twice and didn’t make contact with this guy. And the sheriff said they had 20 service calls on him?


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iirc, I think he was employed somewhere, but I'm not sure it paid him enough to afford a weapon, ammo, accessories, etc.

I've seen the weapon advertised for as little as $400. I'm with you — where did he get the money? Maybe a credit card?
Could he have received some sort of inheritance when his adoptive mom passed away in November 2017?
 
Something like autism is often diagnosed when a child is quite young....well before school, using the internet, etc. So the argument that those things contribute to it makes no sense to me.

Good point. Interesting history on autism and the diagnosing of same. We were not advanced on diagnosing many things early fifty years ago.
https://www.parents.com/health/autism/the-history-of-autism/

A study from post Internet age:
11 reasons children with autism are extra vulnerable to screen time effects and tech addiction
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-and-screen-time-special-brains-special-risks

To reword, with the advances of early diagnostics in autism since 1980, I do absolutely believe that some are more vulnerable to adverse effects of technology.

Children are also exposed to a level of violence as entertainment that I never knew as a child. And the other piece is exposure, all day, all night, no down time? Is it monitored?

So I wonder how does this translate over time looking at the mental health profiles of recent mass shooters. And is there any correlation?

So if the shooter in this case was diagnosed autistic what contributed to the escalation to his mass shooting?
 

I remember reading that article a couple few years ago... I found myself wondering... why wouldn't a teacher, who sat in that classroom, with those same youngsters, day in and day out, not be able to just see those patterns right before her very eyes? Did she not see which children weren't being chosen by their peers to work/play with/sit near?

Or the ones who didn't seem to have any friends, the shy withdrawn ones? Why could you not just see that in your own classroom?

I've always disliked those disingenuous writing assignments, many schools use, that are secretly intended to elicit psycho-social information from children without their being aware of it.

I recall when my middle son was in 4th grade, a fiercely independent and intelligent child, his class was assigned a Daily Journal assignment. They were required to write a small paragraph, and draw a picture in their journals, every morning when they got to school. My son found it invasive. He did not feel that he should have to write, what amounted to a personal diary entry and hand it in for his teacher to read everyday.

So his solution was to draw a small picture of an ocean with a ship, a shark and wales. And everyday his paragraph said "A ship, a shark and whales". "Whales, a ship and a shark" ect...

He did not want to refuse to do the assignment, but he felt that he should be able to decide, when and with whom, he wanted to share his personal thoughts.

Later that semester, the teacher wrote in red ink, "Do not write the same thing every day! :)
(I gave him that Journal back,when he was 20 years old, along with other personal mementos I had saved over the years. We all had a good laugh! ).
 
Iirc the word parent was used. I’m a stay at home mom who homeschools our kids and there are several fathers in my local community who stay home and teach their kids. The issue is a complete disconnect even amongst family members. Public school kids in my area usually get on the bus about 6:30-7am, breakfast at school, school till 2 or 3 depending on grade level, have after school care or sports/extracurriculars until 6 or 7 and when mine were in public school were expected to do at least one to two hours of homework and that was in elementary school. Doesn’t leave much family time.


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I went to school all day, like all other non-homeschooled kids...and I am very close to my family. We had quite a bit of family time. And it was higher quality time.

It does not have to be a woman, it needs to be a parent, male or female. Things were better in 1952

Maybe it was better for white males in 1952. But likely worse for just about everyone else.

Good point. Interesting history on autism and the diagnosing of same. We were not advanced on diagnosing many things early fifty years ago.
https://www.parents.com/health/autism/the-history-of-autism/

A study from post Internet age:
11 reasons children with autism are extra vulnerable to screen time effects and tech addiction
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-and-screen-time-special-brains-special-risks

To reword, with the advances of early diagnostics in autism since 1980, I do absolutely believe that some are more vulnerable to adverse effects of technology.

Children are also exposed to a level of violence as entertainment that I never knew as a child. And the other piece is exposure, all day, all night, no down time? Is it monitored?

So I wonder how does this translate over time looking at the mental health profiles of recent mass shooters. And is there any correlation?

So if the shooter in this case was diagnosed autistic what contributed to the escalation to his mass shooting?

I have no opinion on screen time. It's not something I've ever researched. But I do know that most people with autism are NOT more prone to violence like school shootings. So, IMO, if this guy did have a diagnosis on the spectrum, it had nothing to do with him being a mass murderer. I really hope the media doesn't try to spin it that way. It really would harm the autism community. People with autism are already looked down upon. They don't need this unfounded nonsense making it worse.
 
Florida Gov. Rick Scott calls for FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign in wake of Parkland school shooting

“An apology will never bring these 17 Floridians back to life or comfort the families who are in pain. The families will spend a lifetime wondering how this could happen, and an apology will never give them the answers they desperately need,” he said in a statement.

“We constantly promote ‘see something, say something,’ and a courageous person did just that to the FBI. And the FBI failed to act. ‘See something, say something’ is an incredibly important tool and people must have confidence in the follow through from law enforcement. The FBI Director needs to resign.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-resign-in-wake-parkland-school-shooting.html


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I’m thinking whoever did not pass the information on is the one who should be fired. The director cannot be everything.
 
iirc, I think he was employed somewhere, but I'm not sure it paid him enough to afford a weapon, ammo, accessories, etc.

I've seen the weapon advertised for as little as $400. I'm with you — where did he get the money? Maybe a credit card?

Was it stated that NC had more than one weapon and if so where did he keep them if only the “15” rifle was kept in a locked cabinet where he was living?
 
Thank you for providing link. I appreciate that you offered it :)

I found an interesting article.

"So the good news, if you think things are getting worse, is that you may be suffering from the psychology of declinism, rather than actual decline."

More at https://www.wbs.ac.uk/news/why-we-think-life-was-better-in-the-good-old-days/

Don't get me wrong--I'm eternally grateful for the fact I had a stay at home mom. I just worry when there seems to be broad assumptions and statements.

I think the cell phone is awful. From day one -- never had one. Never wanted one.

There isolation machines. You cant even say hi to someone behind you in a grocery line -- there all glued.

You pass people sitting at restaurant -- they all have their cell phones in their faces. MY thought had always been well heck however you all are talking to invite them up to the table and you can talk face to face over a meal

its insanity

I think the generation at the school are going to have a horrible time with marriage. There is no communication skills development happening

Those emo things or whatever they are called are silly Feelings are not a happy face or a mad face or a tears face

Human emotion is a dash more complicated than pushing a button

de friending someone or unfriending whatever it is called is not conflict resolution -- a skill anyone in adult life needs.

In marriage kinda significant!

They create a total inability to develop any frustration tolerance skills. Everything is ordered ahead so there is no waiting. Waiting for an ambulance can be a problem for a cup at Starbucks not so much!!!

That generation has learned no way to make somewhat of a complicated narrative .

I have teased some folks (who have kids) . before cell phones emails had some substance .

I have watched as there entire world has turned into 140 characters and check that off your list

i teased anita that if I emailed her that my head fell off last night her response would be.

Sorry to hear this. Feel better.

Its an addiction in the purest sense of the word and no different than heroin smoking etc etc

the core definition of addiction is any entity which results in feelings of anxiety if separated from which is really harmful

Separating from a fire extinguisher while the kitchen is ablaze is appropriate anxiety!

the notion that they make things easier is not born out by reality. it is obserdity

For cell phone addicts meeting someone at a restaurant at 7 PM is like this !!

Lets just make it two people for typing reasons !

START 6 PM

hi we on for 7

min later sure

3 min later I was wondering do we to go to *advertiser censored* instead

2 min later I am not sure hold on

3 min later where do you want to go

2 min later

1 min later XXXX

2 min later ok

3 min later ok see you there

2 min later ok

15 min later I may be a little late I am running into XXXX to grab something

2 min later While your there can you get me *advertiser censored*

2 min later sure

1 min later what do you want

1 min later XXXXX

1 min later OK

2 min later do you want large or small

1 min later small

2 min later I did not hear from you so I got you large sorry about that

1 minlute later can you just return it

2 min later No I am back in the car

1 min later thats ok

2 min later I am pulling in the reataurant

1 min later I am about 10 min utes away

1 min later ok

2 min later I got the table

3 min later great

1 min later you want me to order you a coke

1 min later sure

1 min later make sure it is diet

1 min later pepsi or coke

2 min later i dont care

1 min later make it a coke

2 min later i think it is a pepsi should i have them take it back

1 min later no that is ok

1 min later where are you

2 min later about 5 minutes away

1 min later ok

3 min later at a long light

1 min later OK

2 minutes later I am pulling into the parking lot

1 minute later I am at a table on the right

1 min ute later on the right or left side

1 minute later on the right

2 min later I am pulling in

1 min later OK

1 min later what kind of appetizer do you want

2 min later I am going to BR first

1 mi later OK


arrive

sit down

say hi

pick up your cell phones and sitting across from one another do nothing other than tweet or whatever people that are NOT at the table

=====================================
OUR VERSION OF THIS :

6 days ahead of time Want to go to *advertiser censored* Fri at 7 Sure sounds good 6 days later at 7 the two of you sit down and talk and eat .............

compare and contrast

give me a break!!
 
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