Identified! FL - Big Coppitt Key, 'Valentine Jane Doe' 49UFFL, 16-25, Feb'91 - Wanda Deann Kirkum *killer died*

[sunnynz]

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks, I'll keep looking around!

Sorry to be a downer! It's the first thing I do now if both people are in Namus - check the DNA tab on their Namus page. It can save a lot of time down a lot of rabbit holes

 

[Littlelotte]

It's okay! Like I said, I'm still kinda new at this so I'm not super familiar with how NamUs works. XP I did find a search option that lets me filter out profiles with submitted DNA samples so I'll be using that from now on.

 

[malaika]

I worked this case originally - we thought she'd be ID'd in a matter of days. Here we are all those years later! I think she's from Puerto Rico.

Hi SpanishMoss,

Why did you think she might be from PR?

 

[carbuff]

Current ruleouts. Estes still isn't on the list https://identifyus.org/cases/6182

The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Lurine Bergeron Unknown Florida
Theresa Fischbach 1969 Texas
Brenda Lambert 1969 West Virginia
Cynthia Perry 1968 North Carolina
Tiffany Sessions 1968 Florida
Charlene Villinger 1958 Virginia
Darci Warde Unknown Washington
Sybil Warren Unknown North Carolina

 

[Kano]

3 dots or lines far more common for a Pachuco cross. I haven't really ran into many people with them that not directly related to gangs though I am sure there are a few people. If it is a Pachuco cross I don't remember it being very popular in the region they think she is from. The Pachuco themselves were a real Cali trend (Zoot suit riots) and the cross outside of prison gangs you would see from Cali to Texas and Oklahoma.

I have also heard of this being used in the early punk/skinhead scene and later when they turned more Aryan in Europe. I can't say much about those groups first hand though.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Cayleigh Elise made it a video for her if anyone is interested. I think she looks alot like Tavia Bailey buy if I'm not mistaken our JD is not from Florida. She had unique clothes and no sun tan. So I doubt she's either tavia or the other JD just suggested.

 

[malaika]

Hi SpanishMoss,

Why did you think she might be from PR?

bumping

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I have also heard of this being used in the early punk/skinhead scene and later when they turned more Aryan in Europe. I can't say much about those groups first hand though.

Skinheads were associated with the right wing, at least in the UK, and tended to be associated with the National Front and later the British National Party, both parties of the far right in this country during the 1970s and 1980s.

Punk was always much more left wing though.

 

[Kano]

Skinheads were associated with the right wing, at least in the UK, and tended to be associated with the National Front and later the British National Party, both parties of the far right in this country during the 1970s and 1980s.

Punk was always much more left wing though.

From what I gather the first generation of punks not really into the race bit at all? More the 'Straight Edge' punk days? The first usage I heard of this symbol with them was from those years and actually if I remember they related it to a straight edge symbol. (Straight edge was the no drugs movement)

I grew up in what considered Chicano neighborhoods but in these years they were pretty intermixed still. I have a Pachuco cross from when I was a kid and associated with that type of thing. I was born in 78 so not far off from the same age as her. I would say it got slightly more well known within 5 years after this girl found. I believe movies like American Me and Blood In Blood Out which feature the Pachuco released in 1992 and 1993.

 

[SisterGrimm]

I don't know her name and I cannot tell you who she is. But what I can tell you is that a murderer named Charlie "Carl" Brandt lived about 1,000 ft of where she was found.

In 1971,Indiana, Carl Brandt was only 13 years old when he shot his pregnant mother taking a bath. He wounded his father in the back while he was shaving and struggled to strangle one of his younger sisters.
He served only a little over a year in a mental institution as Indiana protects youth. His father fought for his custody and never mentioned the incident to him.

In 1973 the Brandts moved to Florida. Carl married a woman named Teresa. He lived in Big Pine Key.
In 1988 a 4 year old little girl by the name of Patricia Lanza disappeared in Little Torch Key. The community was celebrating on the 4th of July. Her body was discovered sexually assaulted with a head injury. She was tossed carelessly in some bushes.
Later that year in No Name Key Lisa Sanders went missing on December 16th. She was 20 years old and was mentally slow. The Lanza's knew Sanders.
Lisa was also attending a community get together. She was found beaten, stabbed and dragged by a rope behind a car. She also lived in Big Pine Key.

In 1989 a homeless woman by the name of Sherry Perisho, age 38, was living on a Dinghy in Big Pine Key. Her body was discovered in the swimming hole near the North Pine Channel Bridge. Valentine Doe's body was found on a trail by there. But we'll get to her in a moment. Sherry Perisho was found mutilated with her head nearly decapitated and her heart removed. Brandt was named as her killer. But at the time he must have considered that people wouldn't miss a homeless woman and lived out his disturbing fantasy.
Now this brings us to Valentine Doe. What connects these two is interesting. In 1991 Doe was seen attempting to hitchhike on Rt. 1 near where Sherry was discovered.
At this point in time Teresa Brandt was already suspecting her husband of the murder of Sherry. It was Valentine's Day and he had to drive by Rt. 1. He also knew the locals and he knew who was a tourist and who wasn't. I suspect that Brandt saw her attempting to hitchhike and parked his car at home. He walked the trail and bumped into Valentine Doe explaining that he could give her a ride. Shortly after he attacks Doe. Beats her, strangles her with her own bikini top and rapes her violently. But it's Valentine's Day and he's expected home. He steals any identification she has and disposes of it.

In 1995 a prostitute is found nearly decapitated with her heart removed in Miami Florida. Brandt was also assumed to have killed her as he was in the area on that day.

In 1967 Michelle Lynn Jones was born. Carl was obsessed with her and she was his niece. In 1988 she was 21 years old. (She looks very similar to Lisa Sanders in my opinion.)
In 2005 on Sept 15th police were called in Orlando Florida. Teresa and Carl were staying at Michelle Jones' home. Carl had hanged himself in his niece's garage. The bodies of Teresa Brandt and Michelle Lynn Jones were found violently murdered. He stabbed his wife around 7 times. He removed Michelle's heart and decapitated her. He placed her head by her body for police to find.

Brandt was a quiet man but police assume he had more victims than they found. I suspect that he is the murderer of Patricia Lanza, Lisa Sanders and Valentine Doe.

Credit goes to Warren Lanza for helping me. I am so sorry about your little sister. I appreciate your understanding and patience. You were so helpful. My heart goes out to your family.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Lets bump for this, since there is good info on her and a good PM hopefully she can get her identity back soon. Was fascinated me here was the clothing and the fact that she wasn't sun tanned. But where did she come from? not florida atleast.

 

[rats]

I wish DNA Doe would do this case... Do we have a good way to contact investigators?

 

[Moonwalker9]

I've mentioned it for them but it's not on their shortlist so it's gonna take a while. What about parabon? They apparently do the same as dnadoe.

 

[rats]

I've mentioned it for them but it's not on their shortlist so it's gonna take a while. What about parabon? They apparently do the same as dnadoe.

I didn't mean the DNA Doe people. I meant the investigators themselves. It is way easier to get a case through them if the investigators mention it. If investigators weren't into DNA Doe, why would they be into Parabon, tho? Also, IMO I think that we should be going DNA Doe for Does, and Parabon for criminals. That way, the resources are more evenly split.

ETA: I have reached out to the sheriff's office in charge of her case. Here's hoping.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks for reaching out!

This isn't really relevant, just some background stuff:

Investigators might choose to go with Parabon because it's licensed and certified to work with LE in several areas besides the ancestral research. If they want one of those spiffy genetics-based facial reconstructions, for instance, they can have everything done at once. And there are fewer issues about the results; DNA Doe basically provides a tip that has to be confirmed while a company like Parabon that's certified may be able to provide a forensic answer directly. I think they can work with more degraded samples as well.

There are several states, (MA, New York, I think Georgia) where LE is required to go to a certified source in state and have to go through mountains of paperwork to get approval for something outside. I think that's probably part of why Mount Vernon Jane's case seems to be stalled. Also known as "turf issues"

And then with meth labs and opiod epidemics and gun running and all the other urgent daily crises most LE agencies are dealing with these days, there's sadly not a lot of spare manpower, energy, or budget to deal with cold cases in many jurisdictions. A local agency near me created a cold case group in cooperation with a couple of other area towns, but all but one of the detectives assigned to it has been pulled back to everyday work. And we're not a high-crime area.

 

[rats]

Thanks for reaching out!

This isn't really relevant, just some background stuff:

Investigators might choose to go with Parabon because it's licensed and certified to work with LE in several areas besides the ancestral research. If they want one of those spiffy genetics-based facial reconstructions, for instance, they can have everything done at once. And there are fewer issues about the results; DNA Doe basically provides a tip that has to be confirmed while a company like Parabon that's certified may be able to provide a forensic answer directly. I think they can work with more degraded samples as well.

There are several states, (MA, New York, I think Georgia) where LE is required to go to a certified source in state and have to go through mountains of paperwork to get approval for something outside. I think that's probably part of why Mount Vernon Jane's case seems to be stalled. Also known as "turf issues"

And then with meth labs and opiod epidemics and gun running and all the other urgent daily crises most LE agencies are dealing with these days, there's sadly not a lot of spare manpower, energy, or budget to deal with cold cases in many jurisdictions. A local agency near me created a cold case group in cooperation with a couple of other area towns, but all but one of the detectives assigned to it has been pulled back to everyday work. And we're not a high-crime area.

As one of the go-tos for the detective on the MVJD case, that is definitely why we are stalled - Det. Dimase has told me that first hand many times. It's especially why we can't get isotope testing done.

I appreciate the look into why they would go Parabon. I just feel like it would be easier to split it up but I get that.

Also YIKES at that cold case group! How sad!

 

[Sleuthster]

I don't know her name and I cannot tell you who she is. But what I can tell you is that a murderer named Charlie "Carl" Brandt lived about 1,000 ft of where she was found.

In 1971,Indiana, Carl Brandt was only 13 years old when he shot his pregnant mother taking a bath. He wounded his father in the back while he was shaving and struggled to strangle one of his younger sisters.
He served only a little over a year in a mental institution as Indiana protects youth. His father fought for his custody and never mentioned the incident to him.

In 1973 the Brandts moved to Florida. Carl married a woman named Teresa. He lived in Big Pine Key.
In 1988 a 4 year old little girl by the name of Patricia Lanza disappeared in Little Torch Key. The community was celebrating on the 4th of July. Her body was discovered sexually assaulted with a head injury. She was tossed carelessly in some bushes.
Later that year in No Name Key Lisa Sanders went missing on December 16th. She was 20 years old and was mentally slow. The Lanza's knew Sanders.
Lisa was also attending a community get together. She was found beaten, stabbed and dragged by a rope behind a car. She also lived in Big Pine Key.

In 1989 a homeless woman by the name of Sherry Perisho, age 38, was living on a Dinghy in Big Pine Key. Her body was discovered in the swimming hole near the North Pine Channel Bridge. Valentine Doe's body was found on a trail by there. But we'll get to her in a moment. Sherry Perisho was found mutilated with her head nearly decapitated and her heart removed. Brandt was named as her killer. But at the time he must have considered that people wouldn't miss a homeless woman and lived out his disturbing fantasy.
Now this brings us to Valentine Doe. What connects these two is interesting. In 1991 Doe was seen attempting to hitchhike on Rt. 1 near where Sherry was discovered.
At this point in time Teresa Brandt was already suspecting her husband of the murder of Sherry. It was Valentine's Day and he had to drive by Rt. 1. He also knew the locals and he knew who was a tourist and who wasn't. I suspect that Brandt saw her attempting to hitchhike and parked his car at home. He walked the trail and bumped into Valentine Doe explaining that he could give her a ride. Shortly after he attacks Doe. Beats her, strangles her with her own bikini top and rapes her violently. But it's Valentine's Day and he's expected home. He steals any identification she has and disposes of it.

In 1995 a prostitute is found nearly decapitated with her heart removed in Miami Florida. Brandt was also assumed to have killed her as he was in the area on that day.

In 1967 Michelle Lynn Jones was born. Carl was obsessed with her and she was his niece. In 1988 she was 21 years old. (She looks very similar to Lisa Sanders in my opinion.)
In 2005 on Sept 15th police were called in Orlando Florida. Teresa and Carl were staying at Michelle Jones' home. Carl had hanged himself in his niece's garage. The bodies of Teresa Brandt and Michelle Lynn Jones were found violently murdered. He stabbed his wife around 7 times. He removed Michelle's heart and decapitated her. He placed her head by her body for police to find.

Brandt was a quiet man but police assume he had more victims than they found. I suspect that he is the murderer of Patricia Lanza, Lisa Sanders and Valentine Doe.

Credit goes to Warren Lanza for helping me. I am so sorry about your little sister. I appreciate your understanding and patience. You were so helpful. My heart goes out to your family.

Here is an article about Carl Brandt. They think he may be responsible for up to 26 slayings. Murder-suicide probe points to 26 slayings

 

[leilarose68]

Thanks for reaching out!

This isn't really relevant, just some background stuff:

Investigators might choose to go with Parabon because it's licensed and certified to work with LE in several areas besides the ancestral research. If they want one of those spiffy genetics-based facial reconstructions, for instance, they can have everything done at once. And there are fewer issues about the results; DNA Doe basically provides a tip that has to be confirmed while a company like Parabon that's certified may be able to provide a forensic answer directly. I think they can work with more degraded samples as well.

There are several states, (MA, New York, I think Georgia) where LE is required to go to a certified source in state and have to go through mountains of paperwork to get approval for something outside. I think that's probably part of why Mount Vernon Jane's case seems to be stalled. Also known as "turf issues"

And then with meth labs and opiod epidemics and gun running and all the other urgent daily crises most LE agencies are dealing with these days, there's sadly not a lot of spare manpower, energy, or budget to deal with cold cases in many jurisdictions. A local agency near me created a cold case group in cooperation with a couple of other area towns, but all but one of the detectives assigned to it has been pulled back to everyday work. And we're not a high-crime area.

So there isn't actually a difference in terms of the answers Parabon and DDP give investigators... they are using the same exact process and they each generate a highly scientific tip that needs to be followed up on and confirmed. The different is that Parabon is for-profit and it's also really expensive to get genealogy done: about $5k and doing the 'Parabon snapshot' is also $5k. DDP is a non-profit so they only ask $1500 for sequencing costs. I could see agencies going with Parabon though because the work they're doing is more official since they've been contracted by the FBI and are a company that has lots of experience working with law enforcement, probably have really good insurance & have gotten lots of positive press recently.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Those moccasins are bothering me... So I decided to look to Canada's missing children.

I found this 16 year old runaway, Amber Carrie Potts, with substance abuse problems. I noticed her upturned nose, similarity in ears, and multiple piercings, first.
Canada's Missing | Case details
The Doe Network: Case File 312DFON


Actual picture Composite School picture
Photo age progression (altered)

CANADA - Canada - Amber Potts-Jaffary, 16, Etobicoke, Ont, 26 Nov 1988

If she has been suggested before, please ignore.

 

[carbuff]

I don't see Amber on the ruleouts. Unidentified Person Case