GUILTY FL - Carlie Brucia, 11, Sarasota, 1 February 2004

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BirdieBoo said:
For those who wonder what "incited" Smith:


I wonder if the perv had seen the Janet Jackson/ Justin Timberlake sexual violence simulation on TV prior to this.


I heard today that Superbowl Sunday is one of the biggest days of the year for domestic violence & rape crisis hotlines.

Anyone have any insight?

I believe that Danielle van Dam was also murdered on Superbowl Sunday by David Westerfield.


Well Danielle was abducted over Superbowl weekend as well. The perv Joseph Smith could not have seen the JJ video as it occurred at halftime and Carlie was taken before the first kickoff. It is true that domestic violence is at it's peak on Superbowl weekend, which is what makes the janet spectacle worse. I think it is the combo of alcohol and machoman hormones that collide during the superbowl.
 
YadaYada said:
Hi!

Are there any reports anywhere saying that John and Joseph knew each other? I haven't seen anything reported. But I haven't been able to follow the news as closely as some of you. I just can't imagine someone setting up an 11 year old girl to come to this fate. This type of crime is usually committed as a crime of opportunity. Joseph could have pulled into that car wash waiting for someone (any potential victim) to come along. It was reported that the car wash is on a busy street. I'm sure people walked past there frequently. Its just horrible to think more than one person could have planned something like this.

God bless Carlie and her family.

Who is John? Do you mean Ronald?
 
I can't believe that in the year 2004 there are still ignorant people who believe rapists attack based on how provocative and attractive the victim is. :slap:

What about the rapists who target elderly shut-ins? What about the ones who target four-year-olds? There was one rapist/murderer who targeted male newspaper carriers... and he wasn't gay!

But most rapists target whoever wanders into the area at the right time. Most rapists are criminals of opportunity. And those with preferences usually prefer certain hair color, age, build, etc. and it would not matter what the person fitting their particular criteria was wearing. It isn't like they intend to keep them clothed for very long... or even alive for very long.
 
The sickness of these types of predators lies within their own minds, and is not due to something their victims have 'provoked'. JMO, though.
 
The car wash owner didn't spend $12,000 to prevent a child from being abducted. The equipment was for protection of his business. It was simply coincidence that this crime was caught by this camera. I'm glad he reviewed the tape quickly and found evidence for the police to use. It caught the perp, but it didn't save the life of Carlie.

Kids will lie to you. Carlie told the mother of her friend that her mother said it was alright to walk home. The walk wasn't far and it was still daylight. The mother of her friend had no reason to believe the girl was lying to her. We have a policy in our home where either myself or my husband has to talk personally to the parent of any child at our house to give instructions about how she is to come home etc. We have learned not to trust what kids say about having cleared things with their parents. Even if abduction is not a factor, parents can get very angry with you, even sue you, if you allow their children to do things based solely on the word of the child, such as watching PG13 movies, using the internet, talking to boys on the phone etc. (I have only girl children.) It is always better to be safe than sorry.

Taking a child who is visiting your child to the mall (as an example) may be completely against the rules of the child's parents. I personally don't want my kids riding in a car with someone I don't know anything about. Maybe that person has been drinking half of the day. Maybe he/she is simply a lousy driver. Maybe they don't make kids wear seat belts. Maybe when they get to the mall they let the kids go off on their own and meet up with them hours later. These things are all unnacceptable to me.
 
Good for you, Babcat, with regards to children in your home/charge. That kind of mindset protects everybody involved.
 
This guy has been unlocked for the last year...is there a chance of him being responsible for other disappearances? Have any been reported in the area previously?

All I have to say is thank goodness somebody reported what he had done.

I saw her parents on the Today show, her poor mother could barely speak...My heart bleeds for her family :(
 
KOOL LOOK said:
Amend the miranda rights to conclude you have the right to waive a trial and jury and request the state to sign your death warrant within 30 days of your arrest. I feel some crimes and criminals like Joseph, Alphonzo Rodriquez, should be allowed the right to an early exit.

I say give Scott Peterson his trial, speedily though, because their aren't eye witnesses, so be it. But crimes like this one, caught on video, eyewitnesses, forgo the trial and take care of the business of justice for the victims and society. Why do tax payers have to pay thousands and millions on blatant acts against humanity and God. When your caught, your caught, and Joseph is caught.

There's more to this man than what we've learned so far. A good father, baaaahaaaaa, I don't believe those reports for a moment. A good father wouldn't leave his family with this type of legacy. He needs to be investigated for other crimes. A close investigation needs to be done on his family. There's got to be some abuse somewhere.

After doing some reading and thinking, playing the video tape, I'm beginning to feel Carlie may have been set up by John, the boyfriend. He was seen canvassing minutes prior, then had the car parked and ready for Carlie to approach her. My hinky meters are flashing here.

very good post Kool Look,
good food for thought... It does seem oddly coincidental that Carlie and this creep happen upon eachother at the same time??? Very Strange.

I couldn't agree with you more that a good father would never leave their family this type of legacy. The unfortunate children of creep Westerfield had to legally change their last name... So sad.
 
MrsMush99 said:
You know, the scary thing is, if there was no video tape of this monster taking Carlie, he might have never been caught and he would have been out there to do this to another child.

It sickens me that he was let go several times without being put in prison. I was under the impression that if you violate your parole you were put in prison, end of story. I guess I was way off with that thought. That judge should be ashamed of himself. TWICE he violated his parole, TWICE. Disgusting.


The Judge (Circuit Judge Harry Rapkin) stands behind his decision and says he did nothing wrong!

Below is a partial quote from Herald Tribune http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040207/NEWS/402070581

Rapkin said a probation officer did not provide information to show that the often unemployed Smith was willfully refusing to pay his fines. Rapkin spoke out Friday because he said his role has been misunderstood and he is now getting death threats from outraged citizens.

Corrections Secretary James V. Crosby Jr. countered that the judge never called for a hearing during which a probation officer would have presented evidence against Smith. Instead, the judge put a "sticky note" on the file saying: "I need evidence that this was willful. did he have the ability to pay?" and initialed it.

Smith has a lengthy criminal past that includes at least 13 arrests and a string of probation assignments. Court records show him as a chronic drug abuser who has been arrested repeatedly for prescription drug fraud, cocaine use and heroin possession.

Smith was being supervised by a probation officer in Sarasota who since August had sent the judge two notices that Smith was violating his probation.

Neither violation resulted in Smith being jailed. Rapkin, who assumed Smith's case when he took over a division from another judge, never actually saw Smith in his courtroom.

"What the judge typically should do according to the rules is issue a warrant and have a hearing," Crosby said. "If he had a question on whether we had evidence, we would produce the evidence.

"… The judge has all the power. All we can do is report when the person has not performed as ordered by the judge."

Crosby said he believes probation officers kept Smith under as close watch as possible and reported him every time they caught him violating the terms of his probation.
 
Although this judge did not act on probation violations, I am sure there are many others that also went "unpunished" under the same circumstances. Even though this man had been accused and even tried for abduction... he was aquitted. The judge cannot consider that situation when making a decision. The crimes Smith had actually served time for were drug abuse crimes... generally considered "victimless crimes" and nonviolent. His assault charge was more than ten years old and I believe it was also related to a drug deal. It was another Avilla case where blame could be placed directly on the jury. The jury let this guy walk... just like Avilla's jury let him walk.
 
I have to say that the people who are sending this judge death threats are a little nuts. Smith was not violating his probation by doing anything illegal...he just wasn't paying his fines. The judge wanted proof that he could afford to pay the fines before putting him in jail. Like my aunt used to say about her rarely-employed ex when my grandmother wanted to have him arrested for non-payment of child support, "you can't get blood from a stone." Putting him (Smith or my ex-uncle) in jail wasn't going to generate any money. The probation officer and judge can point fingers back and forth all they want, but in truth if Smith had been jailed he probably would have paid the fines and been out in a matter of hours. It wouldn't, in all likelihood, have prevented Carlie's death.

And I think it's interesting how many people say he should have been in jail for life when he has never been convicted of anything resembling this crime. I doubt it was his first time - he seemed too confident and cool in the video - but it is the first time he's been caught. There is nothing in his record to do with kids or sexual assault. Even the woman he abducted (which he was acquitted of) didn't accuse him of rape. So to say LE should have done something before...well, do they have psychic powers?

Even if the Amber Alert had been sent out sooner, I feel that Carlie was dead very quickly (I pray). She was abducted Sunday evening and Smith was at work Monday morning acting strange. She was already gone. The website for her states her date of death as Sunday. LE does have to move quickly, but if they put out an Amber Alert too easily, people would quit paying attention to them - like car alarms and those sirens that go off when you the store clerk forgets to take the anti-theft thing off your clothes.

And as for LE "patting themselves on the back" I think that was merely a show of appreciation to the different agencies who worked together without the usual "turf war" BS. They also thanked the media for showing some respect and decency (imagine that!). They wanted to show their gratitude publicly in hopes that this is how all cases would be worked.

No, Carlie wasn't found in time, but she was found. Smith is behind bars for good - no deals. Ask the Rocha's or the Levy's or any of the families who still don't know if their child is alive or dead if they would settle for that. It doesn't bring Carlie back, but I'll bet it brings some small measure of comfort to know that they got the guy and he's never getting out.
 
Babcat,

we must have been posting at the same time. Great minds think alike! LOL!

You managed to say almost the same thing in much fewer words. Brevity is not my strong suit!
 
Someone asked of anyone knows the distance from Carlie's house to the house she spent the night at. I haven't seen a reply. Does anyone know?
Thanks--
 
YadaYada said:
oops! I did mean Ronald.. Sorry


OK that makes more sense. I called the TV station that did the interview with Ronald and asked them to review the tapes and note how many times Ronald speaks of Carlie in the past tense. This was particularly bothersome since his interview was the night BEFORE Carlie's body was found.

I also noted that Ronald said he had to run an errand to Bradenton on Sunday AM and he took the girls. I believe that several of his and Joseph's arrests were in Bradenton, which is due north of Sarasota and a much smaller city. Ronald and Joseph are very close in age and both work in the automotive industry, both are on probation for various offenses dating back several years. One other thing I noted is that Ronald had a IV-D child support case in which he was listed as the petitioner, the case was dismissed as soon as it went to court. That in itself says that he collected welfare for a child and when the state went after child support from the other parent, he closed his welfare case. Makes you wonder if he ever had custody of the child.
 
I really hope Ronald or who ever that man is (friends moms boyfriend) was not involved. Maybe Joe Smith just went behind this car wash to do drugs, and just by chance that is when Carlie was walking back there.
 
WAIT... This Judge looked the other way twice in the 2 months preceding Carlie's abduction. In November Joseph was brought to the judges attention for failing his drug test ( for the sixth time), in December it was failure to have EVER made ANY payments on ANY of his fines. His crimes were escalating and this was NOT the only violent crime he had been involved with.

This judge is notorious for his leniency and failure to lock up probation violators. Florida has a combined probation/parole system and what is not said is that he was ACTUALLY on PAROLE due to an early release. The citizens of Florida are SICK of these liberal judges that live in their gated communities releasing criminals out of jail to live amongst the commoners. You can bet your butt that NONE of the probationers or sex offenders live in those high-priced gated communities and if they are so much as seen in them the police act immediately. The taxpayors are working hard to get rid of these judges, but the criminals and their attornies join forces with these judges and fight us every step of the way.

I hold this judge accountable to do his job, which includes signing the arrest warrants for parole violators. I hold the jury in the previous abduction case responsible for believing a criminal over the woman attacked and the good samaritans that attempted to help her. I hope they never sleep another night! Shame on those jurors for failing to use common sense.
 
I don't think Smith was necessarily incited to attack Carlie by anything he saw (such as Janet and Justin). From what I've read, attacks like this are often preceded by triggering events in the guy's life that make him feel put down and angry. Wasn't he recently kicked out by his wife? That would be a typical trigger.

If domestic violence really peaks on Superbowl Sunday, it's my bet is on alcohol as the variable. I think an awful lot of crime, particularly domestic violence, involves people who have been drinking or drugging.
 
Maybe people who live there cut through that lot often because it is shortcut from one road to another. If that's the case, Smith may have just figured it was likely someone would be walking through there, especially on Sunday when the business is closed and there are no cars to contend with.
 

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