FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #14

[amicuscurie]

He is claiming they killed Dan and then told him they’d kill someone else in his family if he told? any normal person would go straight to the police, not pay the money. That’s not how extortion works! Extortion isnt where someone calls you and says “I will kill you unless you pay me.” (Kidnapping maybe, but then they have your family hostage so you have to pay them). What incentive would there be to pay in Charlie’s case? The incentive would be to go to the police, so you didn’t have to pay, and so they wouldn’t kill you. Especially if you know who they were!

Extortion/blackmail works when someone has something on you that you want to keep quiet, so you pay them so it does not get out there. Not when someone has something THEY want YOU to keep quiet. (Like ”I killed someone. Keep Quiet or I will kill you! Said no murderer, ever. I mean, why?)

Now, if they say “I killed someone BECAUSE YOU HIRED ME, and I’m going to go to the police,” or “I know you had someone killed, and I’m going to tell“ then you would pay them. That’s how extortion works.

There’s a saying that the best lies have some element of truth to them. I believe that a lot of what theyre saying is true. They WERE blackmailing him, because they DID have something on him, the murder he set up (they’re incriminating themselves if they tell, but theyre not too bright). More likely Katie was blackmailing him, or at least continuing to ask for money and favors, which is consistent with the evidence. (That explains why he continued to pay Katie regular checks through the dentist office, and why he had to tell Donna, although I believe she was in on it. It could still work as a defense if Donna is ever charged, that she knew after the fact only).

in other words, their theory about the killers actually applies to Charlie. HE has Dan killed without the mom knowing, because HE overheard them complaining constantly about Dan and wanting Wendi to move. Then Katie starts asking for more money, or he just doesn’t have enough, so he has to tell Donna to pay her through the business. Katie doesnt think she is “really” guilty, because she didn’t do the crime, so she’s happy to extort him and also figures he won’t go to the police because it incriminates him. That’s the extortion. That’s why their theory fits a lot of the evidence. Because they didn’t have to make a lot of it up out of whole cloth. Thats also why they were so willing to believe they were being blackmailed a second time after the bump, because Katie probably had already told him there were people who knew, and might tell if he didn’t pay.

 

[Tapeartree]

I just don't understand this family dynamic at all. If my ex ( children's father) was killed by my brother/family or they even knew about it and didn't convey it to me in nine years, I would absolutely be furious with them. I wouldn't get up on the stand and defend it. I don't know what it is, maybe because this is the third time I have watched her testify, but I can see her lies more clearly. Before, I have always thought she was not in the loop and didn't know, but I am thinking she played a role. Poor Dan, he didn't see it coming. He even invited her for a walk that day. It appears that he was trying to get along with her and be civil. All the while, she whines how mean Danny was to her....

 

[clearskies1]

He is claiming they killed Dan and then told him they’d kill someone else in his family if he told? any normal person would go straight to the police, not pay the money. That’s not how extortion works! Extortion isnt where someone calls you and says “I will kill you unless you pay me.” (Kidnapping maybe, but then they have your family hostage so you have to pay them). What incentive would there be to pay in Charlie’s case? The incentive would be to go to the police, so you didn’t have to pay, and so they wouldn’t kill you. Especially if you know who they were!

Extortion/blackmail works when someone has something on you that you want to keep quiet, so you pay them so it does not get out there. Not when someone has something THEY want YOU to keep quiet. (Like ”I killed someone. Keep Quiet or I will kill you! Said no murderer, ever. I mean, why?)

Now, if they say “I killed someone BECAUSE YOU HIRED ME, and I’m going to go to the police,” or “I know you had someone killed, and I’m going to tell“ then you would pay them. That’s how extortion works.

There’s a saying that the best lies have some element of truth to them. I believe that a lot of what theyre saying is true. They WERE blackmailing him, because they DID have something on him, the murder he set up (they’re incriminating themselves if they tell, but theyre not too bright). More likely Katie was blackmailing him, or at least continuing to ask for money and favors, which is consistent with the evidence. (That explains why he continued to pay Katie regular checks through the dentist office, and why he had to tell Donna, although I believe she was in on it. It could still work as a defense if Donna is ever charged, that she knew after the fact only).

in other words, their theory about the killers actually applies to Charlie. HE has Dan killed without the mom knowing, because HE overheard them complaining constantly about Dan and wanting Wendi to move. Then Katie starts asking for more money, or he just doesn’t have enough, so he has to tell Donna to pay her through the business. Katie doesnt think she is “really” guilty, because she didn’t do the crime, so she’s happy to extort him and also figures he won’t go to the police because it incriminates him. That’s the extortion. That’s why their theory fits a lot of the evidence. Because they didn’t have to make a lot of it up out of whole cloth. Thats also why they were so willing to believe they were being blackmailed a second time after the bump, because Katie probably had already told him there were people who knew, and might tell if he didn’t pay.

The only explanations I think he can give the jury for not going to the cops: 1) tremendous guilt and shame about the death of Dan (he felt responsible for hanging out with/blabbing to someone like Katie) so he tried to manage it on his own without the police so that his family wouldn't find out; and 2) he didn't trust the cops to protect him from the Latin Kings. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Charlie Adelson Trial State & Defense Witness List Murder of Dan Markel

I did not hear Sigfredo Garcia's name so this probably explains why he's not been transported to the County jail like KM and LR.

 

[amicuscurie]

The only explanations I think he can give the jury for not going to the cops: 1) tremendous guilt and shame about the death of Dan (he felt responsible for hanging out with/blabbing to someone like Katie) so he tried to manage it on his own without the police so that his family wouldn't find out; and 2) he didn't trust the cops to protect him from the Latin Kings. JMO.

ok, but what about after they had been arrested? Could he have believed the rest of the gang was still after him? BUT- the payments to Katie from the dental office stop around the time Sig is arrested. So they must’ve thought he was not going to blackmail them anymore from jail. So why not go to the police then? Big hole in their argument, if you ask me. I’d like to see how they explain why these installment payments suddenly stopped but he still hasn’t gone to the police and waited until he had sat in jail for over a year to mention it. Why not volunteer what you know about these people who were arrested for the murder of your nephews’ father?

the more I think about their theory, the more I realize how dumb it is! But the jury doesn’t know what we know. I’m sure the state will make these points better than I can!

 

[clearskies1]

ok, but what about after they had been arrested? Could he have believed the rest of the gang was still after him? BUT- the payments to Katie from the dental office stop around the time Sig is arrested. So they must’ve thought he was not going to blackmail them anymore from jail. So why not go to the police then? Big hole in their argument, if you ask me. I’d like to see how they explain why these installment payments suddenly stopped but he still hasn’t gone to the police and waited until he had sat in jail for over a year to mention it. Why not volunteer what you know about these people who were arrested for the murder of your nephews’ father?

Yes, I was just throwing out thoughts, not advocating for them....he needs to explain it.

 

[Weki]

Their theory is basically going to play out like a slow admission of guilt. Charlie knows he’s cooked. That’s why he looks so defeated. When Rashbaum said ‘yeah the stapled money, that’s Charlie’s’ I had goosebumps. That’s an admission of guilt for the crime charged imo. Jury doesn’t know that now but they will by the end of this trial.

As far as defense theories go, this isn’t the worst one I’ve heard of. It’s par for the course for guilty defendants. JMO

 

[dotr]

 

[amicuscurie]

Their theory is basically going to play out like a slow admission of guilt. Charlie knows he’s cooked. That’s why he looks so defeated. When Rashbaum said ‘yeah the stapled money, that’s Charlie’s’ I had goosebumps. That’s an admission of guilt for the crime charged imo. Jury doesn’t know that now but they will by the end of this trial.

As far as defense theories go, this isn’t the worst one I’ve heard of. It’s par for the course for guilty defendants. JMO

Wendi basically appeared to concede that he stapled money in one of her answers, she got tripped up and instead of saying “I don’t know anything about that” she said “ I didn’t know about that.” Very different. Obvious lawyer trick, can’t believe she fell for it. But, she says she doesn’t know what contempt means, so… (love how they tried to argue that shes not a divorce lawyer so why would she know that. Ha.)

I’m amazed that he might actually testify, and that their theory depends so much on his testimony. Most criminal defendants do not testify. It usually doesn’t go well when they do (Katie). If he does, the state will surely put on Katie for rebuttal. Of course, her credibility is shot, because she lied at two trials. The defense may be counting on that. Would the defense call her? And she could say she lied because she was worried about the extortion? I guess that wouldn’t make sense, she’s already talked to the state.

It must be so tough to be a criminal defense lawyer. I heard once that they never actually outright ask the client whether he is guilty. Don’t know if that’s true. If they asked him in this case, and he admitted it, they’d have to knowingly lie in their opening statements. I don’t know that too many attorneys want to do that. In this case, how did those conversations go? “What if it was extortion? Could we say you were extorted?“ Did he tell them this cockamamie story and they just went, “ok, if say so, we will argue it?” They’ve got to know how silly it sounds.

I still think it is much closer to the theory they are planning to use for Donna. These attorneys probably all talk to each other, Rashbaum has probably been in meetings with the family. Donna might say Charlie did it without Donna knowing, and then she had to keep paying Katie to keep her quiet. That’s at least plausible and consistent with the evidence and with what people would really do. It could explain a lot of the bump conversations, that Donna was worried about blackmail because she had paid Katie. Hence “it probably concerns the two of us.” Etc. The TV code could’ve been used to refer to the whole thing anyway, since Dan was killed, after all.

It does seem to me like the defense is trying to make it look like Donna did not want Dan killed. (She just wanted Wendi to be able to legally move, and they were using legal means to do that).

Of course, that’s totally inconsistent with their argument that the killers overheard them talking about getting rid of Dan and decided to kill him. Wendi also said on the stand that at the police station she was worried she had “complained to too many people” and someone did this for her.

sooooo many plot holes.

 

[Weki]

Rashbaum was Donna and Harvey’s lawyer before he took on Charlie. I would speculate that this whole defense strategy was worked out between Donna and Rashbaum. Or at the very least Donna is heavily involved in the defense strategy. Of course Donna would only pick a lawyer who is meek like Rashbaum - easier to boss around. I assume the parents are paying. Charlie is not going to go against his parents. But he would be better off with a public defender and having someone who is not influenced by his parents in any way!

But that’s not how this family operates. Charlie will take orders from Donna like he’s done all his life and will do whatever to please her. It’s quite sad! Charlie still has a long life to live and a young child. He should confess the truth and get a deal! Let the chips fall where they may. It’s the only way to save his soul. But that will never happen!

Donna and Wendi are unlikely to be charged! JMO

 

[Tapeartree]

Rashbaum was Donna and Harvey’s lawyer before he took on Charlie. I would speculate that this whole defense strategy was worked out between Donna and Rashbaum. Or at the very least Donna is heavily involved in the defense strategy. Of course Donna would only pick a lawyer who is meek like Rashbaum - easier to boss around. I assume the parents are paying. Charlie is not going to go against his parents. But he would be better off with a public defender and having someone who is not influenced by his parents in any way!

But that’s not how this family operates. Charlie will take orders from Donna like he’s done all his life and will do whatever to please her. It’s quite sad! Charlie still has a long life to live and a young child. He should confess the truth and get a deal! Let the chips fall where they may. It’s the only way to save his soul. But that will never happen!

Donna and Wendi are unlikely to be charged! JMO

I don't think WA will be charged, but it's painfully obvious the state believes she is just as guilty. The puppeteering of Lacasse during the weeks prior to the murder are a major red flag, in my opinion. I am glad he left a day early for his trip.

 

[Tapeartree]

Law and Crime network is not streaming on youtube, but Tallahassee Democrat is currently streaming

 

[nodamselindistress]

Apparently Wendi chooses multiple outfits that look alike....thought she was wearing the same navy blue dress today as yesterday but the neckline is different (round) today as opposed to yesterday.

 

[dotr]

WATCH LIVE: Dan Markel's ex-wife back on the stand in Day 2 of Charlie Adelson Trial

Wendi Adelson, who testified Thursday that she had no knowledge of her ex-husband Dan Markel's murder, taking the witness stand again on Friday.

www.tallahassee.com

'A day after denying she had any involvement in her ex-husband Dan Markel's murder, Wendi Adelson will take the stand again Friday morning in the murder trial of her brother, Fort Lauderdale dentist Charlie Adelson.

Wendi Adelson spent a grueling couple of hours answering tough questions from Assistant State Attorney Georgia Cappleman, the longtime lead prosecutor in the Markel case. She's testifying under a limited immunity deal for the third time since Markel was murdered on July 18, 2014.'

Charlie Adelson's sister testifies at his murder trial in Tallahassee

Jurors heard testimony Thursday from Wendi Adelson. She said her family was not involved in the murder 9 years ago of her ex-husband, FSU law professor Dan Markel.

news.wfsu.org

'Wendi Adelson said she was surprised to find out just yesterday that her brother knew the people who were convicted of shooting Markel. She was fighting Markel over custody of their two young sons and wanted to move with them to South Florida when Markel was murdered.'

 

[Tapeartree]

The defense lawyer is insinuating that she was making plans after July 2014 with her family in Tallahassee, and she and her family wouldn't be planning a murder. It seems to me that WA was planning an October birthday celebration for DM at the same time she was filing for divorce and planning to move to Miami. All of this scheduling he is going on about just shows me how manipulative she truly is. I hope the prosecutor rebuts this testimony.

 

[opt]

I still think it is much closer to the theory they are planning to use for Donna. These attorneys probably all talk to each other, Rashbaum has probably been in meetings with the family. Donna might say Charlie did it without Donna knowing, and then she had to keep paying Katie to keep her quiet. That’s at least plausible and consistent with the evidence and with what people would really do. It could explain a lot of the bump conversations, that Donna was worried about blackmail because she had paid Katie. Hence “it probably concerns the two of us.” Etc. The TV code could’ve been used to refer to the whole thing anyway, since Dan was killed, after all.

This must be what Mentour Lawyer was talking about last night. He said Donna’s lawyer on the Zoom looked furious when the extortion card was played, as if that card was supposed to be reserved for Donna. You’re right that it could have worked for Donna, but it’s not going to work for Charlie.

Too bad the Zoom was not recorded. I would have liked to see the reaction myself.

 

[dotr]

Apparently Wendi chooses multiple outfits that look alike....thought she was wearing the same navy blue dress today as yesterday but the neckline is different (round) today as opposed to yesterday.

WA should stick with straight lines when testifying , the asymmetrical neckline and hair part, serves as a subliminal message suggesting, crooked, imo, speculation, fwiw.

LIVE BLOG: Charlie and Wendi’s exes take the stand in his murder-for-hire trial

Adelson's trial began Monday. It is expected to last at least three weeks.

www.wctv.tv

 

[amicuscurie]

Rashbaum was Donna and Harvey’s lawyer before he took on Charlie. I would speculate that this whole defense strategy was worked out between Donna and Rashbaum. Or at the very least Donna is heavily involved in the defense strategy. Of course Donna would only pick a lawyer who is meek like Rashbaum - easier to boss around. I assume the parents are paying. Charlie is not going to go against his parents. But he would be better off with a public defender and having someone who is not influenced by his parents in any way!

But that’s not how this family operates. Charlie will take orders from Donna like he’s done all his life and will do whatever to please her. It’s quite sad! Charlie still has a long life to live and a young child. He should confess the truth and get a deal! Let the chips fall where they may. It’s the only way to save his soul. But that will never happen!

Donna and Wendi are unlikely to be charged! JMO

The theory they are now using makes even more sense in light of this. I believe Donna thought of it, but she thought of it originally for herself. I believe she thought that she could say Charlie did it behind her back and Katie blackmailed her, and she was involved in the cover up to protect her son. Just my opinion.

I do believe the family has decided to let Charlie take the fall for this, and so the lawyers have adapted the theory they were going to use for Donna for Charlie. It doesn’t fit as well for him. Maybe they know this, but maybe they (including Charlie) are all doing what Donna wants. If Charlie is convicted, and Donna is arrested and tried, I believe they will argue the theory for her that Charlie did it behind her back. It’s inconsistent with the theory used for Charlie, but it’s a new jury. I believe Charlie would not testify against her, and even if he did he would have zero credibility.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Is Wendi on trial today? Lol I’m just kidding. This questioning does not exonerate Charlie one bit. He seems to be spending too much time on her schedule.

 

[cottonweaver]

Hi ladies & gents
how many hours til we kick off again? ( I know it's scheduled 8.30am time at the court house for Day 2)