FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

[cottonweaver]

Yes she definitely said that in either the first or second trial. Sorry can’t remember which now.

thanks

if anybody else can narrow it down to either trial 1 or trial 2 it would help (I don't want to rewatch both testimonies if I only have to rewatch one and have learned my lesson over the Markel case on Chinese Whispers on Youtube etc)

 

[Torontonian]

prison?

yeah I've never had difficulty acknowledging that Wendi is a good looking and charming woman - when she's on her best behaviour and is camera-ready. (Lots of people took issue with her description as ' mesmerising' but I've never underestimated the impact of charm on the willing. Even other women - look at Sarah LaTorre - Wendi had her eating out of palm of her hand despite the most blatant tactics ' we could be sisters'. SlT Victim Advocate)

Anyway, looking forward to Jorge's next big date.
2025 Dateline or 2025 Tallahassee court room


View attachment 470832
Using this photo because the photo of Wendi on the Weakest Link is too low res

I think Wendi has also had her fair share of plastic surgery. If you look at old photos of her it’s quite obvious she’s had a nose job and implants.

 

[cottonweaver]

I haven’t been on for a little while. I was wondering about the woman at their house when DA & HA didn’t know they hadn’t hung up. That got her arrested for talking about fleeing. Who is Susan? What is their relationship that HA & DA would trust her so much? I mean there was no doubt that their story to the boys and any friends is that they are all completely innocent, they have been victims of a witchhunt, and she had to flee the country because she knew she was going to be next, even though she’s innocent. That is what her Lawyers will argue at trial.

Although this link isn't Gigi from Pretty Lies, am posting it cause it's got great audio.
Only the first few mins are on Susan
the hot mic:

7th Nov
on Susan & Rick 'setting things up for Roman' on Harvey speaking about the work the pair had done on the wills, 19m 14 secs-

Just to note again, that no channels' subtitles are accurate, all done with AI, but reasonable most of the time

@Missyrocks5 Agree with you on the other post too. If it hadn't have been for the tip-off etc. ( Despite what Donna says about live monitoring I doubt state's attorney has enough spare staff to commit to 24-hour live monitoring of calls. With Charlie, he's was on the phone from 4am breakfast until 10.30pm lights out on some days )

 

[cottonweaver]

I think Wendi has also had her fair share of plastic surgery. If you look at old photos of her it’s quite obvious she’s had a nose job and implants.

That comparison with the old Weakest Link images - when she was in her 20s? - was striking.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Although this link isn't Gigi from Pretty Lies, am posting it cause it's got great audio.
Only the first few mins are on Susan
the hot mic:

7th Nov
on Susan & Rick 'setting things up for Roman' on Harvey speaking about the work the pair had done on the wills, 19m 14 secs-

Just to note again, that no channels' subtitles are accurate, all done with AI, but reasonable most of the time

@Missyrocks5 Agree with you on the other post too. If it hadn't have been for the tip-off etc. ( Despite what Donna says about live monitoring I doubt state's attorney has enough spare staff to commit to 24-hour live monitoring of calls. With Charlie, he's was on the phone from 4am breakfast until 10.30pm lights out on some days )

Thank you. I did hear that woman in the background, I was just wondering who she was to Donna. And you are so right, who in the world has the time to sit and listen to Charlie talk 24 hours a day

 

[dotr]

Looking at comments posted elsewhere I noticed that it's claimed that Wendi testified that she used whatsapp with her clients for the legal clinic while she was working at FSU.
No links were supplied so IDK if it's true.

Anybody recall hearing that at trial? ( I don't)

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app.podscribe.ai

''Did you have WhatsApp on your phone at that time?
16
01:14:41
I don't know if in 2014 I had WhatsApp. Now we use it for all the parent chats at school, so it's, everybody seems to have it, but I don't know if everybody had it back in 2014.
15
01:14:52
What is WhatsApp?
16
01:14:55
WhatsApp app is a kind of an app you would use for texting.
15
01:14:58
Do you know if your brother Charlie had it at that time?
16
01:15:01
I have no idea if he had it at that time.
15
01:15:03
Did you ever communicate with Charlie through WhatsApp?
16
01:15:07
Maybe. I mean,
13
01:15:09
Maybe. Maybe we had encrypted communication that we thought was safe from the police's eyes. Maybe. Maybe, yeah, maybe I was using that kind of encrypted device. Of course she's not gonna acknowledge the, the meaning of that question.
16
01:15:30
I don't know if I had it at that time or if I had it later, I probably would have. ''

Trial delayed; proffer stays sealed: Paradoxical evidence that justice is afoot in Dan Markel murder case

It could, in fact, indicate more progress is being made than meets the eye.

floridapolitics.com

Feb '23 rbbm.
''While some WhatsApp messages were likely recovered from the three handsets investigators had access to, to date, none of these messages have been presented at trial. And messages exchanged on devices that were never seized are generally thought to be inaccessible to law enforcement.

Indeed, Charlie used WhatsApp in part to communicate with Katherine Magbanua, who was convicted last year of being the intermediary between the Adelson family and the hit men.

And, on FBI wiretaps captured in 2016, Charlie told then-girlfriend June Umchinda that his sister Wendi was the woman he had been texting with incessantly on WhatsApp. It has long been speculated that Wendi and other conspirators utilized this or other third-party encrypted apps in 2014 and since, to avoid leaving a record.''

 

[ch_13]

dbm

 

[ch_13]

Looking at comments posted elsewhere I noticed that it's claimed that Wendi testified that she used whatsapp with her clients for the legal clinic while she was working at FSU.
No links were supplied so IDK if it's true.

Anybody recall hearing that at trial? ( I don't)

I believe this came up in the Katie Magbanua retrial, on the cross by her defense attorney.

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks so much @dotr for the links.
So the claim I'd read elsewhere was untrue - she did not testify that she'd used it for legal clinic clients as part of her job. Chinese whispers again.

What strikes me now though, due the advantage of looking at your transcript, is that Georgia would've already known whether she had the app on the phone Wendi gave to Isom on 18 July. Wonder why Georgia asked 'Did you have WhatsApp on your phone at that time?'

( TPD used the FTX forensic toolkit on her phone so they would've been able to tell if she'd installed & uninstalled the app)

 

[Tanager]

Just noticed this for the first time:
DA says to CA in this call " Did you hear the part about Rick and Susan are here...did you hear that?" She says it all sotto voce.

Seems obvious now, but this is DA warning CA to avoid any talk about the case in front of the guests, even though she knows the call is being recorded and they proceed to talk all about the case. I think this is muscle memory of how they have compartmentalized all conversations about the case, and she does it out of habit. There appear to be tiers of secrecy, and Rick and Susan are on a more exclusive tier, but not in the absolute inner circle. Strange that you'd need to conceal anything from your friends who know about your plan to escape.

If I had a million hours to listen to jail calls, I'd put it on in the background, and I'd listen for when DA gets quiet in this way. It is her conspiracy tone, and it is a marked contrast to her to what she wants us to hear in a much louder voice.

RE: WhatsApp- WA has an odd smile while she testifies confidently that she thinks WhatsApp messages can be retrieved (at CA's trial). My gut take is that she knows there is incriminating information on WhatsApp, but the messages do not implicate her. It fits perfectly into her plan to protect herself. It has a real dupers delight vibe to it, and I also sense a bit of "I-told-you-so" to her co-conspirators. Of course, I could just be imagining things.

The point of all of this behavioral analysis and sifting through communication isn't really to identify the behaviors as provable facts for trial- it is just to look at the behaviors as they may lead to other facts that are provable. They are threads to pull to access other evidence.

I do really appreciate the people who are meticulously documenting solid evidence and lining out concrete details. I'm afraid that isn't my skill set. I am so grateful that there is a diverse range of talents here!

 

[Misy]

Yes she definitely said that in either the first or second trial. Sorry can’t remember which now.

Replying to myself here. I haven’t had a chance to read the subsequent posts so maybe someone has already set me straight. But I want to apologize… it seems WA did not acknowledge using WhatsApp in the first or second trials that u could find. It must be during CA’s trial …? Doubting myself totally now tho . Sorry about that!

 

[Misy]

Replying to myself here. I haven’t had a chance to read the subsequent posts so maybe someone has already set me straight. But I want to apologize… it seems WA did not acknowledge using WhatsApp in the first or second trials that u could find. It must be during CA’s trial …? Doubting myself totally now tho . Sorry about that!

Oops! That I could find. :/

 

[IQuestion]

I haven’t been on for a little while. I was wondering about the woman at their house when DA & HA didn’t know they hadn’t hung up. That got her arrested for talking about fleeing. Who is Susan? What is their relationship that HA & DA would trust her so much? I mean there was no doubt that their story to the boys and any friends is that they are all completely innocent, they have been victims of a witchhunt, and she had to flee the country because she knew she was going to be next, even though she’s innocent. That is what her Lawyers will argue at trial.

Hi Missyrocks5, glad you are back! I think you have accurately summed up what may be occurring behind the scenes. BBMA You bring up two excellent points: 1) To family & friends "I am completely/totally/ unequivocally innocent!" I agree, because isn't that we have heard, for a hundred years, from suspects facing criminal charges? How else can they get relatives to foot the bill & mortgage their homes to pay for a great/capable/reputable defense attorney? (Thinking of a client who mortgaged her home to the hilt to pay for her son's defense. ie "I'm a married man with children and the woman is lying!" Mom should have waited until the preliminary to hear some of the evidence before she handed over the check.) Guess a Grand Jury indictment means no prelim in this case, huh?
2) Claiming one has been the subject of a targeted criminal investigation, steel-nerved prosecutors, and FBI wire taps? What some call a "witchhunt," others might call the same information probable cause and overwhelming evidence of wrong doing. If that were truly a good defense for booking a one-way ticket to a non-extradition country...wouldn't every suspect on-the-run use it, too?
***While I have been accused of being the "Joan of Snark " (and rightfully so, on many occassions) it is not meant to insult or belittle opinions....Only to point out the work prosecutors/investigators have put into this case should not/can not be dismissed as "a witchhunt" by the A's or their well meaning supporters.)

 

[LinasK]

Hi Missyrocks5, glad you are back! I think you have accurately summed up what may be occurring behind the scenes. BBMA You bring up two excellent points: 1) To family & friends "I am completely/totally/ unequivocally innocent!" I agree, because isn't that we have heard, for a hundred years, from suspects facing criminal charges? How else can they get relatives to foot the bill & mortgage their homes to pay for a great/capable/reputable defense attorney? (Thinking of a client who mortgaged her home to the hilt to pay for her son's defense. ie "I'm a married man with children and the woman is lying!" Mom should have waited until the preliminary to hear some of the evidence before she handed over the check.) Guess a Grand Jury indictment means no prelim in this case, huh?
2) Claiming one has been the subject of a targeted criminal investigation, steel-nerved prosecutors, and FBI wire taps? What some call a "witchhunt," others might call the same information probable cause and overwhelming evidence of wrong doing. If that were truly a good defense for booking a one-way ticket to a non-extradition country...wouldn't every suspect on-the-run use it, too?
***While I have been accused of being the "Joan of Snark " (and rightfully so, on many occassions) it is not meant to insult or belittle opinions....Only to point out the work prosecutors/investigators have put into this case should not/can not be dismissed as "a witchhunt" by the A's or their well meaning supporters.)

Last night I was watching a true crime show that focused on the case of Beth Carpenter who arranged to have her brother-in-law killed, then fled first to England, then Ireland because of non-extradition. Once the prosecution agreed to drop the Death Penalty, Ireland agreed to extradite her, and she was brought back to the states to stand trial.

 

[IQuestion]

Since CA has been decrying much of the evidence as singularly cosmic coincidences that should never amount to anything:
Giving large sums of money to KM and providing ongoing financial assistance via checks written by his mother.
TV gifts are cheaper than a hitman? It was just a joke and not an allegory for murder!
WA is a geographically challenged non-drinker who happened to drive by the murder scene within an hour after it occurred.
KM's "significant other" SigGar /aka Tuto just happens to be the man, arrested driving HA's old Lexus, charged and convicted of murdering your ex brother-in-law.
****And 30+ hours of other cosmic coincidences...haven't we heard them all? (That's a rhetorical question, btw)
So here are a few CA hasn't mentioned:
1.)LR took a picture of an owl and posted it on InstaG the day before the murder 2.) LR asserts "Tuto" was the shooter. 3.) WA dons a T-shirt with an owl on the front, the day of the murder (Hey, it's in the photos.) 4.) "Tuto" is the greek word for owl!!
How's that for cosmic coincidence? Shout out to Roberta Glass info!

www.owlpages.com › owls › articlesOwlish words, meanings & origins - The Owl Pages​

Aug 4, 2015 · Tyto: A variation of the Greek word "tuto", meaning "owl".

 

[IQuestion]

I hope this is a clear photo of T-shirt with white owl wearing a winter scarf. So odd, because July 18th is definitely not winter in Tally. IDK..but since "code words" was brought up in CA's trial...I keep wondering if more codes...even visual ones could have been used. What do y'all think?
( Who can make this stuff up? Maybe just couldn't help herself?)

 

[Missyrocks5]

Hi Missyrocks5, glad you are back! I think you have accurately summed up what may be occurring behind the scenes. BBMA You bring up two excellent points: 1) To family & friends "I am completely/totally/ unequivocally innocent!" I agree, because isn't that we have heard, for a hundred years, from suspects facing criminal charges? How else can they get relatives to foot the bill & mortgage their homes to pay for a great/capable/reputable defense attorney? (Thinking of a client who mortgaged her home to the hilt to pay for her son's defense. ie "I'm a married man with children and the woman is lying!" Mom should have waited until the preliminary to hear some of the evidence before she handed over the check.) Guess a Grand Jury indictment means no prelim in this case, huh?
2) Claiming one has been the subject of a targeted criminal investigation, steel-nerved prosecutors, and FBI wire taps? What some call a "witchhunt," others might call the same information probable cause and overwhelming evidence of wrong doing. If that were truly a good defense for booking a one-way ticket to a non-extradition country...wouldn't every suspect on-the-run use it, too?
***While I have been accused of being the "Joan of Snark " (and rightfully so, on many occassions) it is not meant to insult or belittle opinions....Only to point out the work prosecutors/investigators have put into this case should not/can not be dismissed as "a witchhunt" by the A's or their well meaning supporters.)

Thank you! Joan of Snark is great. So true on convincing relatives, etc to mortgage homes and go to extraordinary lengths because of proclamations of innocence. The State has done an excellent job gathering evidence for this case. But we know this is what they are all telling folks. Isn't OJ still looking for the real killer?

 

[amicuscurie]

Thank you! Joan of Snark is great. So true on convincing relatives, etc to mortgage homes and go to extraordinary lengths because of proclamations of innocence. The State has done an excellent job gathering evidence for this case. But we know this is what they are all telling folks. Isn't OJ still looking for the real killer?

Ha! I’ve heard people on various shows questioning why Charlie isn’t ranting on these jail calls about “finding the real killer.” Have they forgotten that Charlie’s defense is that he KNOWS who the “real killers” are, and they’re currently doing time for this very crime? He claims he was EXTORTED by the “real killers,” remember? Voila, mystery solved! It would be absurd given that defense, for Charlie to now claim, a la OJ, that he was searching for whoever did this.

Small detail, but it bugs me when some of the YouTube commentators don’t think about this stuff. Aren’t they as obsessed by this case as we are?!

Again, in my opinion (and that of the jury, apparently), there is enough evidence against Charlie that you don’t need to look at stuff that doesn’t apply and claim it does, like why he’s not claiming to “search for the real killers.”

 

[amicuscurie]

View attachment 470962
I hope this is a clear photo of T-shirt with white owl wearing a winter scarf. So odd, because July 18th is definitely not winter in Tally. IDK..but since "code words" was brought up in CA's trial...I keep wondering if more codes...even visual ones could have been used. What do y'all think?
( Who can make this stuff up? Maybe just couldn't help herself?)

In my opinion there is nothing to the owl shirt. Coincidence. What possible purpose could the choice of shirt had in relation to the conspiracy? How could it have served as some kind of “signal” to the killer(s) if they never saw it?

How would Luis/Sig/Katie have known, in advance, that there would be an owl, in a particular tree, right near where they were located, at a particular time, such that Luis could photograph it? (They wouldn’t.) And why would he say that Katie got angry that he did that and told him to take it down?

The reason the drive-by, for example, might be less easy to dismiss as a coincidence is because criminals do sometimes drive by the scene, and because Wendi has had several different explanations for it. It seems to have raised suspicions, and there could be a possible crime-related explanation for it (she couldn’t help herself.)

By contrast, with the owl, the alleged crime-related explanations some people cite for it to me make no sense, as I explain above. Also, criminals aren’t known to use t-shirt codes, or take pictures of wildlife. Indeed, if the owl had not been in that tree, the crime could still have occurred, and Wendi still might have worn that shirt. The cops did not ask her about her shirt that day, the state has never asked her about it, and if they didn’t find it suspicious, neither do I.

 

[cottonweaver]

I also don't think Wendi will have seen Rivera's brief Instagram posting the night before. No evidence that she knew the name of Sig's accomplice either- in order to be monitoring Riveras socials.

Google search also helps emphasise how popular the owl trend had become by 2014 in accessories , women's fashion and home decor.
Try searching 'owl motif trend popular in fashion' and you get a ton of hits from that period discussing ' owl trend'

On the other hand Wendi seems very careful about the impression given by her choice of clothes (IMO Same dress two trials = fewer hits harder to distinguish the two testimonies, ballet- style flats ' lickle girl' etc)
Also, WS-ers have previously asked ' why is she so scruffy for a lunch date at Mozaik?'

If I was a super-conniving conspirator who's expecting to be a suspect that same day, I might also try to look as casual and uncontrived as possible. Short sleeve T, cutesy motif, scruffy shorts, dishevelled, no time to shower etc. Not put together at all. I definitely wouldn't dress like a sharp femme fatale!)