FL - George Zimmerman injured in Lake Mary shooting, police say

[corundogs]

And that's exactly why people shouldn't go jumping to conclusions about things like this. It never hurts to wait until a few facts come out.

That is hard to refute!

But speculation is not taboo on WS. Isn't that what this site does in so many cases - before and even after some facts are known?

 

[jjenny]

It would have to fall under one of the hearsay exceptions. I'm too tired to look those up right now to see what might be applicable. Admission against interest is a possibility.

I am pretty sure this qualifies as an "excited utterance" exception to hearsay.

 

[ohreally]

Today's arrest makes me seriously doubt that GZ was the aggressor in the past complaints made by MA.

 

[jjenny]

Wouldn't it be a matter of whether or not Apperson was Mirandized before he made that incriminating statement?

He wasn't under arrest and he made it spontaneously, so I don't think so.

 

[jjenny]

Today's arrest makes me seriously doubt that GZ was the aggressor in the past complaints made by MA.

Well, if Apperson said "I hope I got him this time" according to the Sgt. who overheard him, what does it imply about the previous time?

 

[kimlynn]

I have no problem with a sarcastic response when someone says something stupid like Apperson said to Zimmerman.

And I think that if Obama would have kept his mouth shut, George would not be experiencing attempts on his life.

So you think it's cut and dried because MA was arrested? If GZ went so far as to respond with an insult back to MA how much of a stretch would it be for him to display his weapon. He admitted his window was down.
I can wait. GZ will be in the news again. He is the victim in every case or so he would like us all to believe.

 

[sonjay]

Wouldn't it be a matter of whether or not Apperson was Mirandized before he made that incriminating statement?

The arrest report says that an officer who arrived at the scene overheard Apperson say that. It wasn't a statement to the police. So I don't think Miranda comes into play at all.

It's still hearsay, though, and would have to fall under one of the hearsay exceptions.

 

[RANCH]

I am pretty sure this qualifies as an "excited utterance" exception to hearsay.

From USLEGAL.com

Excited Utterances Law & Legal Definition

Excited utterances are an exception to the hearsay rule, which prohibits introduction of out-of-court statements of unavailable witnesses into evidence when offered for truthfulness. Excited utterances are certain statements made under the influence of a startling event.

Under the Federal Rules and most courts, there are two requirements for the exception: (1) the statement must relate to a startling event or condition; and (2) the statement must have been made while the declarant was still under the stress of excitement caused by the event or condition.

In determining whether the declarant was still under the influence of the startling event, courts examine the time that has passed between the event and the statement. Usually, statements made during the exciting event or within half an hour afterward are admitted, statements made more than an hour later are not, and statements between a half hour and an hour are decided based on the surrounding circumstances.

Facts showing that the declarant had time for reflection will cause the exception not to apply. Thus if the statement is very self-serving, or is in response to a detailed question, the court is likely to find that the declarant reflected (rather than speaking spontaneously), so that the exception should not apply. Some courts insist that the excited utterance explain or refer to the startling event. But this is not required by the Federal Rules or other courts.

I wonder how long after the shooting when Apperson made his comment about Zimmerman.


http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/excited-utterances/

 

[jjenny]

I wonder how long after the shooting when Apperson made his comment about Zimmerman.


http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/excited-utterances/

Since he called 911 right way I would say not long after the fact.

 

[sonjay]

Since he called 911 right way I would say not long after the fact.

I agree. There had just been a shooting. Police generally respond and get there very quickly after a shooting.

Another possibility for admitting that statement is then-existing mental, emotional or physical condition.

Then-Existing Mental, Emotional, or Physical Condition. A statement of the declarant’s then-existing state of mind (such as motive, intent, or plan) or emotional, sensory, or physical condition (such as mental feeling, pain, or bodily health), but not including a statement of memory or belief to prove the fact remembered or believed unless it relates to the validity or terms of the declarant’s will.
Federal Rules of Evidence
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_803

"I hope I got him this time" certainly seems to speak to "motive, intent or plan." And that one doesn't seem to depend on the statement being made within a half-hour of the event.

 

[RANCH]

So you think it's cut and dried because MA was arrested? If GZ went so far as to respond with an insult back to MA how much of a stretch would it be for him to display his weapon. He admitted his window was down.
I can wait. GZ will be in the news again. He is the victim in every case or so he would like us all to believe.

Mark Nejame hasn't seen any of the evidence yet. He may have to advise his client to accept a deal from the State if there is one.

You can wait for GZ to be in the news for something else? I hope you're not wishing for something bad to happen to him or someone else.

He has been a victim in the past. An unlikeable victim but a victim nonetheless. He appears to be a victim in this case also. JMO.

 

[kimlynn]

Mark Nejame hasn't seen any of the evidence yet. He may have to advise his client to accept a deal from the State if there is one.

You can wait for GZ to be in the news for something else? I hope you're not wishing for something bad to happen to him or someone else.

He has been a victim in the past. An unlikeable victim but a victim nonetheless. He appears to be a victim in this case also. JMO.

And that is the second time that someone has thought I wished physical harm to GZ during discussion about this case. I'm not sure where that's coming from.
I don't like him or trust in his honesty, but I don't wish harm to him or anyone else for that matter.
He could very well be a victim in this case,but I still see it as a possibility that he may have pulled out his weapon.
Not sure if it could be proven but I do think it's possible. Time will tell.

 

[Dana]

I just signed on after being away for a while and looky here at all this.........



-Suspect arrested for allegedly shooting at George Zimmerman "without provocation" Monday.

-Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated batter with a deadly weapon and firing into an occupied vehicle.

-LakeMaryPD says he has a fixation on Zimmerman...

-Apperson allegedly yelled to Zimmerman re: sept. incident "You remember me, you fat motherf***er? You owe me your life. The only reason I didn't press charges on you is because I wanted to kill you myself."

-Apperson was overheard by a Sgt. saying " I hope I got him this time."


My goodness.
I sure am glad no one jumped to any conclusions, trashed the 'victim' and kept their biased opinions about GZ out of this incident.
*sarcasm*

 

[ohreally]

I wonder who MA was talking to when he overheard the statement.

 

[RANCH]

The way I see it, Zimmerman may have been completely innocent in THIS particular situation.

However, his past actions have caused the general public - and very likely LEO - to be very wary of him. Past behavior being the best predictor of future acts, and all that.

After reading the arrest report, it does appear Zimmerman has no fault here. But it wasn't a stretch for many here - and elsewhere - to think he had some culpability in this latest situation.

I think that Zimmerman's past behavior is relevant in this case because it provides motive for the suspect. It's clear that Apperson doesn't like Zimmerman and it's probably because of Zimmerman's past and not just some random road encounter they had.

According to the police report Apperson said that he "cocked the hammer back" on his .357 Magnum revolver before firing at Zimmerman. That could be seen as a premeditated act. I'm assuming that the .357 revolver is a double action which is the much more common type in this caliber.

If it is a DA, it means that Apperson took extra time to *advertiser censored* the hammer back before shooting. If he was truly in fear for his life then why take time to *advertiser censored* the hammer back? Why not just pull the trigger?

That could be part of the reason for his arrest. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

And that is the second time that someone has thought I wished physical harm to GZ during discussion about this case. I'm not sure where that's coming from.
I don't like him or trust in his honesty, but I don't wish harm to him or anyone else for that matter.
He could very well be a victim in this case,but I still see it as a possibility that he may have pulled out his weapon.
Not sure if it could be proven but I do think it's possible. Time will tell.

Sorry. I wasn't sure what you meant in your post.

It's possible that Zimmerman brandished his gun that day. I'm just not seeing any evidence that supports that while I am seeing reasons to believe that Apperson went crazy when he spotted Zimmerman and shot at him.

Your right that time will tell and we will learn more of what happened.

JMO.

 

[RANCH]

I wonder who MA was talking to when he overheard the statement.

That's a good question.

If Apperson was talking to another officer would it make a difference in it's admissibility at trial? Could the person that Apperson was talking to be a civilian who could corroborate the statement?

 

[kimlynn]

Sorry. I wasn't sure what you meant in your post.

It's possible that Zimmerman brandished his gun that day. I'm just not seeing any evidence that supports that while I am seeing reasons to believe that Apperson went crazy when he spotted Zimmerman and shot at him.

Your right that time will tell and we will learn more of what happened.

JMO.

That's okay. I guess I make no bones in my posts about how I feel regarding GZ. I'm trying to be objective but I just don't trust much of anything GZ has to say.
And of course the other guy (MA) seems to have issues as well. I wonder if they do have witness statements and that could be the reason for an arrest.
This might be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[RANCH]

Here's an article/review that I read on "American Rifleman" that made me aware of "cocking" a gun before shooting in a self defense situation and LE.

Smith & Wesson currently offers its J-frames with three hammer configurations including a traditional exposed hammer, a shrouded hammer, and a completely concealed hammer. The Model 640 is of the concealed hammer, double-action-only trigger variety. The advantages of this design include a sleek no-snag profile and fewer entry points for dust and dirt into the action. Some self defense gurus tout this design as being legally advantageous because it eliminates the did-you-*advertiser censored*-the-hammer-first argument if a self defender ends up in court. Others praise it for its simplicity of operation and for its predictable trigger pull which remains consistent with every shot fired.

In this case the suspect freely admitted to "cocking" his gun before firing. To me this gives me an insight to this mans frame of mind. He had to think about pulling the hammer back before shooting. Why would he want to take the time to pull the hammer back before shooting? Because the trigger pull is lighter and therefore you get better accuracy.

If I was minding my own business going down the road and someone next to me points a gun at me I'm not too worried about accuracy. I want to stop them from shooting me first and I'm going to shoot as fast as possible. I'm not going to *advertiser censored* the hammer back to take careful aim first.

This admission does make me feel that Apperson deliberately took time to carefully aim his gun at Zimmerman. If it comes out that the .357 revolver is not a standard double action and it's a single action then this post doesn't mean much. I then would ask why he chose to use that instead of his Glock 22 that was in his vehicle.

Police said they obtained search warrants for Apperson's and Zimmerman's vehicles. Inside Apperson's vehicle police found two handguns, a 40 caliber Glock 22 and a 357 revolver with one expended shell casing in the cylinder.

The Glock is a "striker fire" type pistol and is neither double or single action. You just pull the trigger to shoot. I'd really like to know the model of revolver that was used in this shooting.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/art...mith-wessons-640-pro-series-357-mag-revolver/

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/gu...ng-found-in-appersons-car-police-say/32961892

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't understand this statement by Mark Nejame.



Why does Nejame think that LE arrested his client solely on the basis of Zimmerman's statements? At least that's what I get out of his statement to the press. Is he trying to say that LE didn't investigate this case before arresting his client and just took Zimmerman's word for what happened?

Or is he saying that LE is picking on his client because he invoked his right to not speak to police?

I'm not sure what Mark's point is here. Doesn't seem usual to me. JMO.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/investigators-question-family-in-zimmerman-shooting/33049616

15 minutes? Doesn't make sense to me either, but not much does. Seems to be the wrong comet to latch on to. jmo idk