GUILTY FL - Tristyn Bailey, 13, found deceased, St Johns Co, 9 May 2021 *14 yo Arrested*

[JudgeJoe]

I found the hearing on youtube, you can make it fullscreen to observe his hands.

His demeanor is one of strait-up indifference. Imo. Only time he looked like he was “thinking” is when he heard 21 days juvenile detention. I wonder what he thinks will happen after that.

 

[Arkay]

There is a phenomenon called the Macdonald Triad that seems to be a common denominator among many violent offenders no matter their age. Bedwetting. Torture of animals. Fire starting. My question was along these lines. I don't believe everyone who commits murder has Antisocial Personality Disorder. I also don't know what kind of emotional response you are expecting from a kid attending a Zoom Court Conference.

I think the sociopathic element comes from the lack of empathy and remorse displayed by AF when he was in the police car. It's obvious enough that it is antisocial behavior to stab a friend to death. His behavior upon capture does suggest a sociopathic tendency. A selfie in the police car and smugly asking if "anyone has seen Tristyn lately" is a reliable indicator of antisocial behavior.

If some evil impulse had overwhelmed AF and he lost his mind for a moment, if he didn't have sociopathic tendencies he would have been sobbing, apologizing, or making excuses such as he feared for his life around Tristyn.

The Macdonald Triad makes some sense, IMO, but it is not universally accepted. Bedwetting, in particular, may cause a child to be angry and frustrated, but is not in itself a violent act like animal abuse and pyromania.

IMO the Zoom conference is a moot point. He was instructed how to behave to minimize the trouble he was in. It's the murder, the overkill, and the smirking lack of remorse that is very, very troubling.

 

[MsBetsy]

There is a phenomenon called the Macdonald Triad that seems to be a common denominator among many violent offenders no matter their age. Bedwetting. Torture of animals. Fire starting. My question was along these lines. I don't believe everyone who commits murder has Antisocial Personality Disorder. I also don't know what kind of emotional response you are expecting from a kid attending a Zoom Court Conference.

Investigators would have had a pretty good idea of his demeanor or whether or not he was remorseful. They said his post on SM indicated he was "proud" of killing her, and that it was no accident, but cold blooded murder. They didn't mention anything about him being emotional or expressing remorse for what he did.

I'm sure they will have a better picture of his mental health when he is evaluated. We may not hear much more about past behavior since he is a minor. Imo

 

[Gibbo214]

I think the sociopathic element comes from the lack of empathy and remorse displayed by AF when he was in the police car. It's obvious enough that it is antisocial behavior to stab a friend to death. His behavior upon capture does suggest a sociopathic tendency. A selfie in the police car and smugly asking if "anyone has seen Tristyn lately" is a reliable indicator of antisocial behavior.

If some evil impulse had overwhelmed AF and he lost his mind for a moment, if he didn't have sociopathic tendencies he would have been sobbing, apologizing, or making excuses such as he feared for his life around Tristyn.

The Macdonald Triad makes some sense, IMO, but it is not universally accepted. Bedwetting, in particular, may cause a child to be angry and frustrated, but is not in itself a violent act like animal abuse and pyromania.

IMO the Zoom conference is a moot point. He was instructed how to behave to minimize the trouble he was in. It's the murder, the overkill, and the smirking lack of remorse that is very, very troubling.

Bedwetting is not unusual in boys.

 

[gliving]

FWIW, the school they both attended:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2886815/aiden-fucci-tristyn-bailey-patriot-oaks-academy/

Aiden Fucci and Tristyn Bailey both attended Patriot Oaks Academy in St Johns County.

Patriot Oaks Academy runs from kindergarten to eighth grade and serves about 1,500 students.

According to its website, the school contains a community that "fosters character development, independence and a lifelong love of learning."

The school was one of two new ones to open in 2014 in St John's County. Valley Ridge Academy also launched the same year.

Patriot Oaks Academy in St Johns County.

Patriot Oaks Academy – Building a Tradition of Excellence, Together

The school seems really crowded with 1500 students in K-8. Imagine the bus schedule.

I was looking for a calendar to see when they had distance learning. It appears the school holding normal class hours now.

 

[DeDee]

FWIW, the school they both attended:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2886815/aiden-fucci-tristyn-bailey-patriot-oaks-academy/

Aiden Fucci and Tristyn Bailey both attended Patriot Oaks Academy in St Johns County.

Patriot Oaks Academy runs from kindergarten to eighth grade and serves about 1,500 students.

According to its website, the school contains a community that "fosters character development, independence and a lifelong love of learning."

The school was one of two new ones to open in 2014 in St John's County. Valley Ridge Academy also launched the same year.

Patriot Oaks Academy in St Johns County.

Patriot Oaks Academy – Building a Tradition of Excellence, Together

The school seems really crowded with 1500 students in K-8. Imagine the bus schedule.

I was looking for a calendar to see when they had distance learning. It appears the school holding normal class hours now.

There's an 18:1 ratio of students to teachers

Patriots Oaks Academy has an impressive
85% proficiency rate in English
87% proficiency rate in Math
77% proficiency rate in Science

97% pass Algebra I with a 38% participation rate

In the reviews, a problem with bullying at the school is mentioned more than once.

Explore Patriot Oaks Academy in Saint Johns, FL

 

[Lusitana]

I wonder if boys having a pocket knife is normal/usual in Florida. Any Floridians around to enlighten me?

I’m assuming in places like Washington, Montana, Idaho and such, where fishing, hunting and camping is big, young boys would carry a pocket knife but in Florida? For what?

 

[Bordeaux]

AF could not carry a knife for the most part of the day due to attending school…

FL Law:
It is unlawful to conceal carry any knife except a common pocketknife. Knives may be carried openly subject to location-based restrictions. A holder of a 790.06. License to carry concealed weapon or firearm, or a license issued by a state with Florida reciprocity, may carry a concealed knife.
Florida Knife Laws | American Knife and Tool Institute

Just because it is a school rule or state law doesn’t mean that people with bad intentions will follow such regulations especially if they are not enforced. The school probably doesn’t have metal detectors and no one is going to search a youth -in or out of school- unless there is an incident.

AF would be too young to have a Concealed Weapons Permit.

 

[Crimescenetape]

I think the sociopathic element comes from the lack of empathy and remorse displayed by AF when he was in the police car. It's obvious enough that it is antisocial behavior to stab a friend to death. His behavior upon capture does suggest a sociopathic tendency. A selfie in the police car and smugly asking if "anyone has seen Tristyn lately" is a reliable indicator of antisocial behavior.

If some evil impulse had overwhelmed AF and he lost his mind for a moment, if he didn't have sociopathic tendencies he would have been sobbing, apologizing, or making excuses such as he feared for his life around Tristyn.

The Macdonald Triad makes some sense, IMO, but it is not universally accepted. Bedwetting, in particular, may cause a child to be angry and frustrated, but is not in itself a violent act like animal abuse and pyromania.

IMO the Zoom conference is a moot point. He was instructed how to behave to minimize the trouble he was in. It's the murder, the overkill, and the smirking lack of remorse that is very, very troubling.

All that follows is my opinion. Law Enforcement is keeping their cards close to their chests. I can appreciate that. This is a highly emotional case. A girl has been murdered. As for empathy and remorse, we have no idea how AF behaved in the interrogation room. Have you seen anything more of him than what has been released? It is telling AF is charged with delinquency and not murder right now. I can assume it is to detain him while the investigation continues. As for the selfie in the back of the patrol car, could it be possible AF was legitimately asking if anyone has seen Tristyn lately because he has been hauled away for questioning as the last person seeing her alive? I don't know how we can read smugness from the question or peace sign he gives. What would your 14 year old reaction be in such a situation? Is it possible someone else met TB and AF in the woods in those early morning hours? I have many more questions than I have answers and I am not ready to call this kid a sociopath or murderer.

 

[Jax49]

It is telling AF is charged with delinquency and not murder right now.

Snipped for focus.

I thought the charge was 2nd degree murder?

ETA:

An arrest report obtained by First Coast News sheds new light on the circumstances police say surrounded the violent stabbing death of 13-year-old Tristyn Bailey.

Aiden Fucci, 14, was booked into a detention facility on Monday and charged with second-degree murder in the St. Johns County cheerleader's death.

Report: Bloody clothes found in 14-year-old Aiden Fucci's bedroom | firstcoastnews.com

 

[Crimescenetape]

Snipped for focus.

I thought the charge was 2nd degree murder?

ETA:



Report: Bloody clothes found in 14-year-old Aiden Fucci's bedroom | firstcoastnews.com

As I understand it, the judge found probable cause to detain Fucci but a grand jury must convene on the second degree murder charge?

 

[ilovewings]

As I understand it, the judge found probable cause to detain Fucci but a grand jury must convene on the second degree murder charge?

Why not first degree? They don't think it was premeditated?

 

[Bordeaux]

Why not first degree? They don't think it was premeditated?

The initial charge of second degree murder is enough to hold him. More charges are coming pending investigation, with the possibility of first degree murder.

The prosecution wants to be sure that whatever charges are levied are backed by a strong case. They are confident.

 

[sandy_80]

I wonder if they went in deeper into investigating the bigger picture.. was this completely a solo act? or was there more parties involved.. was he provoked or pushed by other kids.. did she receive any bullying or threats

 

[ilovewings]

The initial charge of second degree murder is enough to hold him. More charges are coming pending investigation, with the possibility of first degree murder.

The prosecution wants to be sure that whatever charges are levied are backed by a strong case. They are confident.

Thanks for the info!!!

 

[wyome]

I wonder if boys having a pocket knife is normal/usual in Florida. Any Floridians around to enlighten me?

I’m assuming in places like Washington, Montana, Idaho and such, where fishing, hunting and camping is big, young boys would carry a pocket knife but in Florida? For what?

Fishing is huge in Florida

 

[Bordeaux]

Fishing is huge in Florida

I am from Florida but can’t see the “fishing knife” angle. AF doesn’t appear to be the fishing type, unless there is evidence otherwise.

Young teen boys often carry a knife - I did. It makes them feel “self sufficient” and “grown up” at that age. When the hormones hit, boys like to feel a little “dangerous,” although most do not actually kill anyone!

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I actually would fall on the other side that he is so young, 8th grade, that he should receive all the rehabilitation and therapy possible while incarcerated or inpatient due to public safety. His case should not be about punishment, within whatever FL needs to do according to their laws as adult or juvenile.

I find it odd how the public wants to throw away the key on boys while giving a velvet glove to murderous girls. All JMO.

This thread is replete with examples of immaturity of the children who are on the periphery of this crime yet somehow this boy is supposed to have been of exceptionally mature mind? While what he may have done is heinous, he is still an actual child. He needs therapy, he needs rehabilitation, he needs school. His mind is still growing. Throwing away the key on a 14 year old is just revenge, not justice.

There should be no such thing as "tried as an adult" when you're not an actual adult.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

This thread is replete with examples of immaturity of the children who are on the periphery of this crime yet somehow this boy is supposed to have been of exceptionally mature mind? While what he may have done is heinous, he is still an actual child. He needs therapy, he needs rehabilitation, he needs school. His mind is still growing. Throwing away the key on a 14 year old is just revenge, not justice.

There should be no such thing as "tried as an adult" when you're not an actual adult.

I've always thought that magic imaginary line between youth and adult never made a lot of sense. People mature at different rates, and it just seems arbitrary to draw a line at sixteen for some things, eighteen for others, and even twenty-one for some things.

It's impossible for me to imagine any 14-year-old *I* have ever known getting put away for adult-length sentences, but I know they're out there, the broken-brained, unfixable kids that just can't be saved. I don't know the answer, but it certainly can't be to just set them free when they reach adulthood, while their brains are still broken. That's too much of a risk to those of us who are struggling to behave civilly in civilized society.

 

[ilovewings]

This thread is replete with examples of immaturity of the children who are on the periphery of this crime yet somehow this boy is supposed to have been of exceptionally mature mind? While what he may have done is heinous, he is still an actual child. He needs therapy, he needs rehabilitation, he needs school. His mind is still growing. Throwing away the key on a 14 year old is just revenge, not justice.

There should be no such thing as "tried as an adult" when you're not an actual adult.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you: we have no idea what the state of his mental health is. From my perspective, he could be a budding sociopath, beyond rehabilitation and I definitely believe that there are some crimes committed by teenagers that require that teenager to be tried as an adult.