For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

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Yes - absolutely massive difference between the two and very valid point about Avery's attorney.
I'm still slightly shocked that I'd never noticed it before.
I suppose I must have heard "sexual assault" in the media and just unconsciously slotted that extra word in when listening to it.
It's really troubling to me how frequently the news media reports and presents as fact information that contradicts facts in evidence or other original source material. Instances like this are the most bothersome to me because it's really easy to fact check it (Read Colbourn's one page report and search the pdf of his deposition for the terms sexual or rape; it takes less than five minutes).

With today's proliferation of information, a small but significant error like this can so easily become the generally accepted (yet factually wrong) truth.

:-(
 
With today's proliferation of information, a small but significant error like this can so easily become the generally accepted (yet factually wrong) truth.

:-(

Pretty much sums up what I feel about MaM.



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Part 1 of Brown's blog on this story. This section she talks about how television is made to entertain, not educate. Good call imo.

ETA Love the accuracy of the title "Making a Killing off a Murderer"

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/making-killing-off-murderer-analysis-of.html?m=1

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Thanks for posting this link. Outside of agreeing with Ms. Brown that SA is guilty, cannot say I agree with much more.

I find her rather uneducated psychopathy bandwagoning to be rather unfortunate. As well as her Macdonald triad non-point. Doesn't she even realize that has long been discredited? For someone who is an alleged profiler, she should be.

Nonetheless, even her characterization of those who think the man is guilty, seems to have, imho, no basis in fact. In that there are plenty of people who feel the man was framed, who have combed the court documents, investigation files, etcetera.

So, for example, while they and I may disagree with regard to the man's guilt, I totally respect their point of view, and consider it no less valid than mine.

Btw, and aside, I am admittedly far more interested in the investigation and trial process as opposed to the man's innocence or guilt.
 
Thanks for posting this link. Outside of agreeing with Ms. Brown that SA is guilty, cannot say I agree with much more.

I find her rather uneducated psychopathy bandwagoning to be rather unfortunate. As well as her Macdonald triad non-point. Doesn't she even realize that has long been discredited? For someone who is an alleged profiler, she should be.

Nonetheless, even her characterization of those who think the man is guilty, seems to have, imho, no basis in fact. In that there are plenty of people who feel the man was framed, who have combed the court documents, investigation files, etcetera.

So, for example, while they and I may disagree with regard to the man's guilt, I totally respect their point of view, and consider it no less valid than mine.

Btw, and aside, I am admittedly far more interested in the investigation and trial process as opposed to the man's innocence or guilt.
I have read her material on other cases and don't always agree, however, in this case I think she has an accurate grasp on the whole saga.

When I first posted about this case, I said that a series about a guilty man wouldn't sell. Twist the facts, omit other facts and stretch it out over 10 episodes until it becomes marketable. This, imo, is exactly what they did.

I have read elsewhere (will try to find the link) the author says that by stacking the deck in Avery's favour, the filmakers mirrored the entity they were trying to discredit. Why shouldn't they, and the rest of the media, be held to a standard as high as those investigating cases when it comes to reporting on them? Why should they be allowed to disperse false information to the viewing public? Why should they be allowed to destroy lives with falsehoods and open wounds for Teresa's family?

Millions of people watched that series, but only a fraction of them did any further research. It is true that the everyday person sitting in their lounge room watching Netflix would not know how investigations work, or how Defense Attorneys represent a guilty client or how the television industry works. This is not an insult. It is the truth.

Just because someone has read the case files, doesn't mean that they understand them. You only need to look at the misinformation being spread about the report that has November 3rd as the day the Rav 4 was found. Even a pro Avery supporter on this message board has tried to explain it but they refuse to accept it.

Anyways guilty or innocent may not be important to you, but it is to me. They both received a fair trial, their attorneys were competent and a jury of their peers concluded they were guilty based on the evidence and testimony of experts. The appeals court has also reviewed the evidence and agrees. The system worked just fine in this case.

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I have read her material on other cases and don't always agree, however, in this case I think she has an accurate grasp on the whole saga.

When I first posted about this case, I said that a series about a guilty man wouldn't sell. Twist the facts, omit other facts and stretch it out over 10 episodes until it becomes marketable. This, imo, is exactly what they did.

I have read elsewhere (will try to find the link) the author says that by stacking the deck in Avery's favour, the filmakers mirrored the entity they were trying to discredit. Why shouldn't they, and the rest of the media, be held to a standard as high as those investigating cases when it comes to reporting on them? Why should they be allowed to disperse false information to the viewing public? Why should they be allowed to destroy lives with falsehoods and open wounds for Teresa's family?

Millions of people watched that series, but only a fraction of them did any further research. It is true that the everyday person sitting in their lounge room watching Netflix would not know how investigations work, or how Defense Attorneys represent a guilty client or how the television industry works. This is not an insult. It is the truth.

Just because someone has read the case files, doesn't mean that they understand them. You only need to look at the misinformation being spread about the report that has November 3rd as the day the Rav 4 was found. Even a pro Avery supporter on this message board has tried to explain it but they refuse to accept it.

Anyways guilty or innocent may not be important to you, but it is to me. They both received a fair trial, their attorneys were competent and a jury of their peers concluded they were guilty based on the evidence and testimony of experts. The appeals court has also reviewed the evidence and agrees. The system worked just fine in this case.

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I do think a great deal of confirmation bias, on both sides of the fence, I might add, plays a role with regard to people's views of this case.

And yes, I agree that the media glommed onto this case. Not, imnsho, bc they questioned the legal process, rather, that it sells stories, resulting in more eyes on their pages. This is esp so with regard to the tabloids *cough*mirror*cough*.

I must admit, I was more focused upon her psychological characterization of SA. If anything, and to my mind, it shows that the woman is quite obviously not trained in anything to do with criminal psychology.

That is, while I would agree that SA is quite far from perfect, in fact, quite the opposite, from all that I have read and seen, I am of the opinion that his Hare PCL-R scores would not be elevated enough to classify the man as a psychopath. Moreover, she seems to have little-to-no understanding of IQ scores and how those might factor into the man's criminal behavior.

For example, while many who feel this man is innocent, make the assertion that he would not burn the body, then hide the RAV4 in plain sight. I would beg to differ. In over simplistic terms, his low IQ could easily explain why he might do just that. That is, he would not have the level of foresight that most "normal" people would have. In other words, what might be logical to you and I, would not even enter his mind.

There are other things, as well. Again, the primary issue I have with regard to what this woman opines, is that the forensic psychology aspects are just plain wrong.
 
I totally beleive SA is guilty and I've thought that since 2005. jmo

What are the chances that SA will be granted a new trial?
 
I totally beleive SA is guilty and I've thought that since 2005. jmo

What are the chances that SA will be granted a new trial?
In some ways I hope he doesn't get a new trial because I think he got a fair trial the first time. In some ways I hope he does just to finally see it put to bed and there is absolutely no chance he will ever be freed to do it again and the whole world can forget about him for good.

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Just a re-cap of evidence pointing to SA. Much talk of late about phone pings etc.

* The bullet fragment fired from his gun which contained Teresa's DNA and found on his garage floor.

* The Rav 4 being found on his family's property

* The blood in the Rav 4 - minus EDTA

* Her remains and parts of her clothing found just outside his door.

* Her personal belongings found nearby to where her remains were found

* Key to Rav 4 hidden behind small bookshelf containing his DNA

* After several interviews, BD revealed certain information only someone who was there and involved would know. This led to further evidence being retrieved. Namely - the bullet fragment and DNA on hood latch.

Circumstantial evidence

* Had a freshly bleeding wound that was dripping - evidenced by the droplets inside his trailer

*He volunteered to organise the photoshoot of the van and specifically requested Teresa and phoned her THREE times that day, twice hiding his number. No one else was this obsessed with her on that day.

* Was going to flee from Crivitz but his Dad talked him out of it

* Told the media evidence was found before it actually was

Just from this list alone, it is obvious his attorney needs to come up with more than phone pings and photographs from her forensic experts. Hope he hasn't started to pack his bags!





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Is it news to only me that Dean Strang footed the bill for JS' lawyer? Wonder why they left that info out of MaM?

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Is it news to only me that Dean Strang footed the bill for JS' lawyer? Wonder why they left that info out of MaM?

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it was paid from the money Steve got paid for his wrongful conviction, it's mentioned in the CASO reports, and Jodi indicated that it was from SA too. Not like Strang wrote a check out of his own personal bank account.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=955 (jodi/wiegert interview)
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=963 (from a jail call between SA and CA)
 
I know I've said this before.

THANK YOU Missy, for having your ducks in a row!! I appreciate you =)) I read these reports day and night when I am able. I often wonder " has she got to THIS yet?! " LOL

I come here to catch up, or see what's changed, and when something is stated ( even from one of us supporters, or those still " on the fence " ) and I KNOW I have read that somewhere, or I wonder if it's an accurate account or whatnot, seems it's a matter of hours and you're right there with the info :thumb:

:yourock:

it was paid from the money Steve got paid for his wrongful conviction, it's mentioned in the CASO reports, and Jodi indicated that it was from SA too. Not like Strang wrote a check out of his own personal bank account.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=955 (jodi/wiegert interview)
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=963 (from a jail call between SA and CA)
 
I know I've said this before.

THANK YOU Missy, for having your ducks in a row!! I appreciate you =)) I read these reports day and night when I am able. I often wonder " has she got to THIS yet?! " LOL

I come here to catch up, or see what's changed, and when something is stated ( even from one of us supporters, or those still " on the fence " ) and I KNOW I have read that somewhere, or I wonder if it's an accurate account or whatnot, seems it's a matter of hours and you're right there with the info :thumb:

:yourock:

I 2nd the :yourock:statement!
 
it was paid from the money Steve got paid for his wrongful conviction, it's mentioned in the CASO reports, and Jodi indicated that it was from SA too. Not like Strang wrote a check out of his own personal bank account.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=955 (jodi/wiegert interview)
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=963 (from a jail call between SA and CA)
I think your ducks are missing the point.

The cheques cam from Strang's firm which means he was involved.

Do you think JS hired him of her own accord? Do you think SA hired him - especially considering he whinged about the money being added to his account?

JS did NOT need a lawyer regarding this case. SA needed her to have one. That is why Strang sent the cheques himself. He did NOT want JS dishing the dirt on his client.

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You forgot this one:
Caso report SA paid for JS lawyer.PNG

You implied that Strang paid the bill, Strang's firm wrote a check, most likely from money they were holding in trust for SA from his settlement.

IIRC from the show (it was months ago now that I watched it lol) and from what I read in that transcript, Jodi was picked up for violating her probation and having contact with SA. In the show, she made it sound like they just happened to pass each other on the street, but Wiegert implies that it was just part of it. Jodi also goes on to say something about sending money to the jail for him (as is some other woman and they play her the jailhouse tapes and show her letters). I don't see that this Don Chewning ever represented her in court and is not on her court records, she had a different lawyer on the record in Dec. 2005 (Roberta Heckes).

Anyway, there is a huge difference if SA tells his lawyer to use his money to pay for a lawyer for JS and Strang paying for it himself. JMO
 

Nope. That is why I said he was whinging about it. He was whinging to Charles.

You implied that Strang paid the bill, Strang's firm wrote a check, most likely from money they were holding in trust for SA from his settlement.

It wasn't meant to imply that it came from his personal account and I don't believe I said anything about his personal money. What it was meant to imply, was that Strang was pulling the strings. I do not believe it was SA's idea or JS'.

IIRC from the show (it was months ago now that I watched it lol) and from what I read in that transcript, Jodi was picked up for violating her probation and having contact with SA. In the show, she made it sound like they just happened to pass each other on the street, but Wiegert implies that it was just part of it. Jodi also goes on to say something about sending money to the jail for him (as is some other woman and they play her the jailhouse tapes and show her letters).

JS' probation violation has nothing to do with what I am discussing


I don't see that this Don Chewning ever represented her in court and is not on her court records, she had a different lawyer on the record in Dec. 2005 (Roberta Heckes).

You don't have to be appearing in court to have a lawyer. The point I am trying to make, which you keep avoiding, is that JS was not allowed to answer certain questions about SA unless Chewning was present. Chewnings purpose was to keep JS' mouth shut. That is what defense lawyers of guilty clients do to control any potential damage to their case.

Anyway, there is a huge difference if SA tells his lawyer to use his money to pay for a lawyer for JS and Strang paying for it himself. JMO

Judging by the way he wasn't happy about paying, it seems more like Strang told Avery, not the other way around. I guess it was karma for all the times he beat her up. He ended up paying in some way didn't he haha!
 

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