For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Jaiddie]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...old-your-breath-steven-avery-emails/82160008/

An article updating the public about the prison e-mails that a local paper had requested with the FIOA act:

"Here’s an unsolicited tip to those eagerly waiting for the state to release prison emails referencing Netflix’s popular “Making a Murderer” series: Don’t hold your breath."

Yea, was kinda expecting this to go this way, unfortunately.

 

[HastingsChi]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...old-your-breath-steven-avery-emails/82160008/

An article updating the public about the prison e-mails that a local paper had requested with the FIOA act:

"Here’s an unsolicited tip to those eagerly waiting for the state to release prison emails referencing Netflix’s popular “Making a Murderer” series: Don’t hold your breath."

Yea, was kinda expecting this to go this way, unfortunately.

It was actually USA Today who requested the emails.

The more relevant part of this article:

State law in Wisconsin doesn’t require agencies such as the Department of Corrections to produce records in a precise time frame. Rather, agencies must follow*this language: “as soon as practicable and without delay.”

In a positive sign this week, prison officials offered an idea to shrink the amount of email*being compiled in such a way to exclude messages that aren’t germane to our quest — cutting both their workload and delays to release.

For example, prison officials said that searching emails for the keyword “Avery” had churned*up messages from an office supplies company with “Avery” in its brand name. These messages were solely related to orders for supplies and had no connection to Steven Avery, the convicted killer.

We agreed with prison officials to narrow their email search, excluding orders for Avery office supplies and other messages unrelated to the Netflix series or the two inmates. We hope this both reduces delays and makes it easier to find any significant details*in the end.

 

[missy1974]

It was actually USA Today who requested the emails.

PostCrescent is part of the USA Today Network.

Keegan Kyle, is an investigative reporter with Postcrescent.
http://www.postcrescent.com/staff/40623/keegan-kyle/

This has been an ongoing story for him (I believe linked in the article that Jaiddie posted earlier today), they have not made the process easy for him at all. Will be surprised if we ever see the emails LOL


Jaiddie ~ I thought you disappeared!!!!! Nice to see you back

 

[RANCH]

It was actually USA Today who requested the emails.

The more relevant part of this article:

Thanks for posting why there is a delay in getting the e-mails.

You would think that a MSM organization like USA Today would know about bureaucratic stumbling blocks when requesting information from a government agency.

They do now LOL.

 

[Jaiddie]

PostCrescent is part of the USA Today Network.

Keegan Kyle, is an investigative reporter with Postcrescent.
http://www.postcrescent.com/staff/40623/keegan-kyle/

This has been an ongoing story for him (I believe linked in the article that Jaiddie posted earlier today), they have not made the process easy for him at all. Will be surprised if we ever see the emails LOL


Jaiddie ~ I thought you disappeared!!!!! Nice to see you back

Nah, didn't disappear. Was just using the "dry spell" of information coming out to catch up on shows I had been neglecting watching, LOL. I mainly like to post things that I consider, possibly, "unique" (in that I don't see posted other places multiple times over and over again) or that I see as possibly being "new" information. Still getting my feet wet on this whole websleuthing thing, so I am learning as I go along. I saw you had started a thread about the new docs that just came out, missy, so the "dry spell" may be over for a little bit, hehe.

 

[missy1974]

Jaiddie ~ the CASO Report, Nov 4 fly-over DVD, and reports on G. Zipperper and B. Janda interviews should be out next week, plus the officer crime scene log sometime after that.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Jaiddie ~ the CASO Report, Nov 4 fly-over DVD, and reports on G. Zipperper and B. Janda interviews should be out next week, plus the officer crime scene log sometime after that.

:welcomeback:

 

[Jaiddie]

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story/making-a-murderer-an-fbi-agents-take-episode-8

Moore to the Story: An FBI Agent's Take on MaM: Episode 8:

The latest installment from my favorite FBI agent...I so hope he decides to dig into the actual case for himself. I am interested on his thoughts on what all went down in that investigation.

 

[Jaiddie]

Okay, when watching this video, one should be aware that it is from that Luke person that was harassing the Avery's on Christmas and had to have the cops come and remove him, and also the guy that has been stalking Kratz and videotaping him. That being said, however, what I found interesting about this video was not the answers he was getting (as the man who was doing most of the answering seemed to be a little tipsy, LOL), but the fact that the establishment went to such lengths to stop him asking the questions, in the first place. He was not in the middle of the bar causing a scene. He had used a remote spot (out back, it appears) to question willing people at the beginning. Then security is sent out to get rid of him, and when that doesn't work the owner/manager personally comes out to stop the interview. I also did notice that the girl showed fear, IMO, about answering these questions. When she is asked if she is afraid because of possible repercussions she may encounter if she persists in answering she DOES seem to give affirmative body language that she believes this to be true. I find this telling in that this is actual Manitowoc citizens that are being shown here, so this goes to show the hold that officials seem to have over citizens speaking out about this case. FWIW, this is all JMO.

[video=youtube;HYqxQG7fcZ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYqxQG7fcZ4&app=desktop[/video]

 

[dexter75]

For sure Jaiddie!!
Happens more than one might think. Of course, isn't that how life is anyway?

In just about any " I never thought it could happen to me, my loved one/my family, scenario " UNTIL, it DOES.

JMO obviously

Okay, when watching this video, one should be aware that it is from that Luke person that was harassing the Avery's on Christmas and had to have the cops come and remove him, and also the guy that has been stalking Kratz and videotaping him. That being said, however, what I found interesting about this video was not the answers he was getting (as the man who was doing most of the answering seemed to be a little tipsy, LOL), but the fact that the establishment went to such lengths to stop him asking the questions, in the first place. He was not in the middle of the bar causing a scene. He had used a remote spot (out back, it appears) to question willing people at the beginning. Then security is sent out to get rid of him, and when that doesn't work the owner/manager personally comes out to stop the interview. I also did notice that the girl showed fear, IMO, about answering these questions. When she is asked if she is afraid because of possible repercussions she may encounter if she persists in answering she DOES seem to give affirmative body language that she believes this to be true. I find this telling in that this is actual Manitowoc citizens that are being shown here, so this goes to show the hold that officials seem to have over citizens speaking out about this case. FWIW, this is all JMO.

[video=youtube;HYqxQG7fcZ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYqxQG7fcZ4&app=desktop[/video]

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html

I posted this on the Avery new representation thread, but wanted to bring it over here too, because it shows how Zellner is going to be aggressively going after the LE she said she believes framed Avery. She is absolutely incredible when it comes to how meticulous and thorough she is when investigating these cases for her herself. I would be very nervous, if I were either of those counties, in what they are about to be facing. This woman does her homework.

"Zellner likens her strategy to what she learned as a child reading those martial arts instruction books back in Oklahoma. “If you think of the concept of using your opponent’s strength against them, it’s kind of similar to a lot of the stuff I’ve done.” She says that Manitowoc police planted the evidence against Avery, and she hopes to detect that misconduct using physical clues she thinks they left behind: “They used forensic science to convict [Avery], and I’d be using it to convict them of planting the evidence.”

 

[missy1974]

http://video.ibt.com/share/16983

here is the video that was in that article.

KZ says she has a couple of suspects.... and she also believes it comes down to just a couple of people framing him. She says the blood evidence is "obvious" that it was planted, the key, and the hood latch.

 

[missy1974]

So, really what we are talking about is someone she had talked to that day--because how would anyone else know she had an appointment with SA(BJ) that day. They had to know she was going there that day in order to plant the car right?

This is why I think it was someone close to her, or maybe her "stalker". I don't really have a solid 'theory', but I do believe that it might be someone close to her. If that is the case, I can see it happening a few different ways. Say she did make it back home.... maybe 'someone' was there, she mentions she just came from Avery's... something happens, she dies, that person would know where her last stop was because they talked before whatever happened.... maybe he takes his chances and hopes no one seen her afterwards. What if her "stalker" was following her that day? He would know where she was because he was following her. I would also like to know what her papers would have said.... her work papers, that were not found. Would they have indicated where she was that day? what time?

If I am to believe that the planting of the RAV4 was done by the "real killer" and that person isn't someone on the Avery property..... if they didn't know before November 3rd, by the time she was reported missing, they had a clue she was at Avery's (especially if it is someone that was 'close' to her), and remember Wiegert's report.... that she went to see STEVEN AVERY, when SA wasn't the one listed that called AutoTrader.... and really, at that time, no one should have known who she seen on that property that day if she didn't speak to anyone after being there, right?

 

[Sarah]

The "smear" by the console.... IMO it wouldn't be hard at all and if you look online, it's been replicated many times by "home experiments", I think all the one's I have seen are using q-tips (which are very similar to a swab, no?)

I know that I've said this before, but IMHO SA's blood in the RAV4 is the single most damning piece of evidence against him - and absolutely, if that's proved to be planted it opens up a whole load of other possibilities.
Yes, I've seen all the home experiments with q-tips (cotton buds in the UK LOL) but the most compelling recreation that I've seen is the one that Limaes did with the side of her hand - it's in the "SA was not framed" thread.

Of course the same shaped smear can be 'drawn' with a cotton bud, but I have to question whether a 'planter' randomly daubing bits of blood around that car would painstakingly draw the type of smear left by the side of a hand in exactly the place where the side of your hand would touch.

It's not obvious that you'd end up with a mark like that, so to plant it would take a fair bit of thought and planning.
And if they paid that much attention to detail with that one smear, then why not leave other blood stains in more obvious locations like on the steering wheel, door handle, gear stick etc?

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Take a step back for a moment..... Imagine that you have the means & wherewithal to plant evidence to Frame someone...... Would you leave a dodgy smear on a dashboard? Perhaps a bit of DNA on a CD found in a car belonging to the victim?

No. You would spray blood around that car so there could be no way the evidence might be challenged. Think about it. Someone who has the capacity to Frame SA just does a half baked job and leave ones smear and a couple of other minute samples?

He is guilty and it is sickening that there is a movement to try and set him free because of a biased TV programme.

 

[ZOOL]

Take a step back for a moment..... Imagine that you have the means & wherewithal to plant evidence to Frame someone...... Would you leave a dodgy smear on a dashboard? Perhaps a bit of DNA on a CD found in a car belonging to the victim?

No. You would spray blood around that car so there could be no way the evidence might be challenged. Think about it. Someone who has the capacity to Frame SA just does a half baked job and leave ones smear and a couple of other minute samples?

He is guilty and it is sickening that there is a movement to try and set him free because of a biased TV programme.

Hoosen ~ I agree. It's also very revealing that the murderer had the appropriate tools available to disconnect the battery cables and the license plates, and then toss the plates in another vehicle alongside Avery Rd. behind a main steel building. If one was going to frame someone, why bother playing hide 'n seek with the future investigation?

Also, as far as the blood smear: The probability of someone matching that smear is astronomical. A perpetrator would need to acquire Avery's wet blood sometime without Avery inquiring why, then know that the smear needs to be a mirror image of Avery's knuckled middle finger touching the ignition consol. Finally, a swipe with anything other than human flesh would most likely leave microscopic brush hairs or cotton fibers. Citing armchair, after-the-fact, experimentation by websleuthers with cotton swabs who can achieve these results may seem relevant but I do not accept that as very reasonable.

 

[Limaes]

I know that I've said this before, but IMHO SA's blood in the RAV4 is the single most damning piece of evidence against him - and absolutely, if that's proved to be planted it opens up a whole load of other possibilities.
Yes, I've seen all the home experiments with q-tips (cotton buds in the UK LOL) but the most compelling recreation that I've seen is the one that Limaes did with the side of her hand - it's in the "SA was not framed" thread.

Of course the same shaped smear can be 'drawn' with a cotton bud, but I have to question whether a 'planter' randomly daubing bits of blood around that car would painstakingly draw the type of smear left by the side of a hand in exactly the place where the side of your hand would touch.

It's not obvious that you'd end up with a mark like that, so to plant it would take a fair bit of thought and planning.
And if they paid that much attention to detail with that one smear, then why not leave other blood stains in more obvious locations like on the steering wheel, door handle, gear stick etc?

They're called cotton buds where I live too!

If the cops were out to get Avery, they wouldn't need to plant anything. He was in posession of a firearm and could have done up to 10 years just for that. Lot simpler than an elaborate planting espionage plot after breaking into County offices Watergate style to steal blood vials LOL. We're talking about a Sheriff's Office, not the freaking CIA.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I know that I've said this before, but IMHO SA's blood in the RAV4 is the single most damning piece of evidence against him - and absolutely, if that's proved to be planted it opens up a whole load of other possibilities.
Yes, I've seen all the home experiments with q-tips (cotton buds in the UK LOL) but the most compelling recreation that I've seen is the one that Limaes did with the side of her hand - it's in the "SA was not framed" thread.

Of course the same shaped smear can be 'drawn' with a cotton bud, but I have to question whether a 'planter' randomly daubing bits of blood around that car would painstakingly draw the type of smear left by the side of a hand in exactly the place where the side of your hand would touch.

It's not obvious that you'd end up with a mark like that, so to plant it would take a fair bit of thought and planning.
And if they paid that much attention to detail with that one smear, then why not leave other blood stains in more obvious locations like on the steering wheel, door handle, gear stick etc?

I think the evidence planting could have been done by the only trained "forensic experts" in the county. The drops were painstakingly dabbed on the car interior so they would know just what to swab when the time came for evidence gathering for dna.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://journaltimes.com/news/local/...cle_bf751275-f234-53d8-b717-81cf33636125.html

Saw this, and wanted to bring it here. For all those people that think SA thought he was untouchable, and therefore could get away with murdering someone, he sure seemed awful skittish.

"When Steven Avery recently heard his name broadcast over the police scanner, he turned off the lights and hid inside his trailer home. Avery has reason to fear police - not because he's wanted, but because he spent 18 years on prison for a crime he didn't commit..."

 

[missy1974]

Here is what got me about the blood evidence... and I don't have time to look it up at the moment, but I believe I put it in the DNA evidence thread. The amount of blood that was in the RAV4 of SA's was not minute. Not compared to a normal drop of blood (or 6 drops collectively). I think it might have been Stahlke's testimony where he states how much blood is in a typical drop of blood, and he estimates how much blood was in the RAV4 (1-2ml IIRC). Look at the drops in the RAV4, then go look at the drops in SA's own vehicle. The drops in SA's vehicle are minute.

As for the side of a hand touching a dash like that, it's just not 'natural' to me (there is an indent in the dash there). I could see a brush with tips of fingers, but not the side of a hand touching it like that IMO. And how does blood get "smeared" on a CD case, but yet there are no smudges, or bloody prints (even if gloved, a hand print or something) anywhere else??? he would have to have blood somewhere on himself if he smeared it on the CD case, no?

JMO of course ;-)

Oh and see we are talking about the blood in the RAV4.... How is it that they could see a small little flash card with Teresa written on it through a tinted window, but didn't see any blood? The front windows were not tinted. No one saw blood until Sunday morning.


Grand Am drops of blood http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-305-Avery-Grand-Am-Console.jpg