For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[LeeSanson]

I have wondered about that too especially if it can't be definitively proven that the bones in fact are the remains of TH? But then how can we explain the blood evidence of TH in the back of the Rav4? Otherwise i don't think there is anything else forensically to prove TH is in fact deceased, not that i can think of anyway.
I also keep coming back to the harrassing calls she was receiving just before she went missing. Wonder what that was all about?

Not certain but I believe Ryan was behind the phone calls hence why he deleted some.

I don't know if I want Steven freed MORE than I want others arrested at this juncture.
I am convinced, SA is innocent. And I applaud Zellner for eventually righting that wrong and having Steven rightfully freed. But I would LOVE more to see a detective come on board and figure out who did what to who and what their connection is to everyone else. Because I think this rabbit hole is a lot deeper than we thought. For instance, Andy Colborn and Earl Avery are/were buddies!! Very odd coupling if ya ask me.
I also read but haven't substantiated that Ryan Hillegas was Bobby or Bryan Dassey's friend/buddy too!!
Would love to see a 'relationship' tree drawn depicting who's who.

Off topic: I am dying to know what kind of car/truck/SUV Andy Colborn drove. If he drove a white Jeep then..............(I'm just sayin')

 

[Safeguard]

That's perfectly okay. I tend to side with the underdogs in this world anyway. I think much of what we read about SA's past was slanted to bolster the State's claim or in this case, their conviction. And we all know how influential the average person is so if these 'facts' were presented early on then, people tend to have that ingrained in their conscious.
I kinda see through this filter. I

I think the entire Avery family runs a low IQ. I also suspect their sexual prowess is part of their DNA and up-bringing. I don't think they are dangerous as much as I think they are misguided. I believe Allen and Delores did the best they could as far as rearing 4 children but I don't see them being big disciplinarians either They probably looked the other way a lot!! As long as the kids helped out in the junk yard, ate dinner and washed occasionally, I don't think other than that their bar was set very high. They are/were very simple people and that's probably what the county didn't care for.

I personally wouldn't mind being SA neighbor. I really sensed a gentleness about him. I don't think he's a ravenous predator. I just don't get that feeling at all.
On the other hand however, I wouldn't trust Jodi (or her claims) as far as I could throw her. She lacks the integrity that SA seems to live by.

JMO

I think SA could have been a very different person if he hadn't been framed for the rape of PB, and lost his infant twin sons. He was exonerated but so what...Your free to go living without your only sons, because we already stole that from you? By many accounts, he was really into being a father, and loved his family, at the time of that wrongful conviction. I also don't see * Murderous Psychopath* in his make up...

Agree with you about Jody. She strikes me as an personality disordered opportunist. jmo.( apparently, the sight of SA, even sans the towel, was not enough to make that woman go "Ewwww)... If I had to choose between the two, to have as a neighbor, I'd take SA in a New York Minute!

 

[Safeguard]

I do believe TH is dead.

Unless they gave her an assumed name, a new face and hid her in Guam, someone would have spotted her by now.

She's not living her life... and I don't think her parents were faking that grief.

 

[Karinna]

I do believe TH is dead.
Unless the gave her an assumed name, a new face and hid her in Guam, someone would have spotted her by now.

She's not living her life... and I don't think her parents were faking that grief.

I agree, and more than likely TH is deceased. But i still question the validity of the supposed remains that weren't really positively identified as hers.
And if they are not her remains and she is deceased then that would mean her body is elsewhere. I guess having had the experience of one of my adult children being killed a long way from home, as a grieving parent i just had to know without a doubt that my son had indeed died, and was in a state of shock and disbelief that it couldn't be true what i was being told by the police. Not until his body was flown home and i had to see him. Even then i couldn't believe he was actually gone. So i guess i just gauge that experience by my own reactions at the time.

 

[dexter75]

I struggle, flip-flop, scratch my head, nod and sigh with your sentiment because I feel the same way HOWEVER..........what were the odds this young lady (TH) meeting with the very person (SA) Manitowoc county was having problems with-----then end up being murdered?

Are we to believe this just serendipitously fell into place one Halloween day..... and as a result, the domino effect from this tragedy coincidentally ended up saving Manitowoc county 36 million dollars??
I find this case....mind boggling if not, conspiratorial at best.

I'm starting to side with Delores Avery and think: Teresa Halbach is probably not even dead!!!

Nothing, and I truly mean nothing, would surprise me any longer when it comes to this case.

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[Safeguard]

I am sorry you had to live that Katrina.
I would need to see more proof also if that happened to my child. I do wonder what really happened to TH, where it happened and why did was she killed. I have driven myself nearly mad with different senerio...as a parent going down those dark roads, would be much, much worse, I am sure. Again,
you have my deepest sympathies!

 

[dexter75]

That's perfectly okay. I tend to side with the underdogs in this world anyway. I think much of what we read about SA's past was slanted to bolster the State's claim or in this case, their conviction. And we all know how influential the average person is so if these 'facts' were presented early on then, people tend to have that ingrained in their conscious.
I kinda see through this filter. I

I think the entire Avery family runs a low IQ. I also suspect their sexual prowess is part of their DNA and up-bringing. I don't think they are dangerous as much as I think they are misguided. I believe Allen and Delores did the best they could as far as rearing 4 children but I don't see them being big disciplinarians either They probably looked the other way a lot!! As long as the kids helped out in the junk yard, ate dinner and washed occasionally, I don't think other than that their bar was set very high. They are/were very simple people and that's probably what the county didn't care for.

I personally wouldn't mind being SA neighbor. I really sensed a gentleness about him. I don't think he's a ravenous predator. I just don't get that feeling at all.
On the other hand however, I wouldn't trust Jodi (or her claims) as far as I could throw her. She lacks the integrity that SA seems to live by.

JMO

Absolutely agree, with most of this😉

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[dexter75]

Not certain but I believe Ryan was behind the phone calls hence why he deleted some.

I don't know if I want Steven freed MORE than I want others arrested at this juncture.
I am convinced, SA is innocent. And I applaud Zellner for eventually righting that wrong and having Steven rightfully freed. But I would LOVE more to see a detective come on board and figure out who did what to who and what their connection is to everyone else. Because I think this rabbit hole is a lot deeper than we thought. For instance, Andy Colborn and Earl Avery are/were buddies!! Very odd coupling if ya ask me.
I also read but haven't substantiated that Ryan Hillegas was Bobby or Bryan Dassey's friend/buddy too!!
Would love to see a 'relationship' tree drawn depicting who's who.

Off topic: I am dying to know what kind of car/truck/SUV Andy Colborn drove. If he drove a white Jeep then..............(I'm just sayin')

I like you😉
I've always said ( in spite of others saying " no way THAT many people could be involved) there's MUCH more to this!🙄 It's big! Money & vengeance are BIG motivators. And no one thought they had anything to worry about. Why would they? After all, they pulled it off perfectly and no one questioned any of it for years!
Until now😊
KZ, I am hoping HAS found the "weakest link "
IF my suspicions are correct
they're talking😉
*fingers crossed *

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[missy1974]

I agree, and more than likely TH is deceased. But i still question the validity of the supposed remains that weren't really positively identified as hers.
And if they are not her remains and she is deceased then that would mean her body is elsewhere. I guess having had the experience of one of my adult children being killed a long way from home, as a grieving parent i just had to know without a doubt that my son had indeed died, and was in a state of shock and disbelief that it couldn't be true what i was being told by the police. Not until his body was flown home and i had to see him. Even then i couldn't believe he was actually gone. So i guess i just gauge that experience by my own reactions at the time.

:hug:

I'm so sorry for your loss.

The seeing to believe is hard if there is nothing to see. I feel for the Halbach's. I do think that TH is gone, I hope that more extensive testing will give the answers.

 

[krkrjx]

I think SA could have been a very different person if he hadn't been framed for the rape of PB, and lost his infant twin sons. He was exonerated but so what...Your free to go living without your only sons, because we already stole that from you? By many accounts, he was really into being a father, and loved his family, at the time of that wrongful conviction. I also don't see * Murderous Psychopath* in his make up...

Agree with you about Jody. She strikes me as an personality disordered opportunist. jmo.( apparently, the sight of SA, even sans the towel, was not enough to make that woman go "Ewwww)... If I had to choose between the two, to have as a neighbor, I'd take SA in a New York Minute!

It is known fact that SA was framed for the rape. The only motive I can see for that is it was done because authorities just didn't like him and didn't want him around. He did some things, yes. Not nice things, granted. But there are people all over who do far worse things--it's not like SA or his family were/are unique.

I do not believe much of what I have heard about him or at least believe much of it has been exaggerated. I do, however, believe the story about him burning up a cat. I cannot say why, but that just sounds true to me. Now, I do not know the specifics, and am not even sure I believe the animal was alive. Still, animal cruelty is an enormous red flag for me. Anyone who does that or even laughs about someone else doing it makes me wary. I do not want neighbors like that and in regard to SA I have to go with yeah, he may have done that ugly deed. And I agree he was probably a painful thorn in the County's side for years.

I think they wanted him gone and when opportunity presented, they went about making that happen.

Then...they got caught. And they got sued. And they were going to have to pay out big time. And as the day of reckoning drew near they had no recourse to stop it. People who do not believe a frame-up could occur to save money are delusional. The millions that the state and county were going to be ordered to pay is a helluva lot of money here. Maybe not in some jurisdictions, but definitely so here.

Combine that with their pure hatred for this man who took on their corrupt souls and won and...well, you know where I'm going with this.

I see motive. All they needed was opportunity. And when that presented, they ran with it.

Another thing: People here gossip and spread rumors, sometimes even among kin. It's a fact of life here. You cannot judge someone based on what you have heard about them. I am not sure SA was or is sexually deviant as some say. I think if that were the case there would be no one really trying to help him now...they would let him rot in prison even knowing he's innocent just because their world is better off without him in it. And that's JMO.

 

[Karinna]

I am sorry you had to live that Katrina.
I would need to see more proof also if that happened to my child. I do wonder what really happened to TH, where it happened and why did was she killed. I have driven myself nearly mad with different senerio...as a parent going down those dark roads, would be much, much worse, I am sure. Again,
you have my deepest sympathies!

Thanks safeguard. It was long ago now, in 1995, but sometimes it feels just like yesterday.

 

[Karinna]

:hug:

I'm so sorry for your loss.

The seeing to believe is hard if there is nothing to see. I feel for the Halbach's. I do think that TH is gone, I hope that more extensive testing will give the answers.

Thanks missy. My heart goes out to the Halbach's for their loss too, and i hope and pray this case will finally be resolved for all concerned.

 

[GigiG]

Is this thread on hiatus? I find it hard to believe that no one's posted here since 8/29...?

 

[missy1974]

Is this thread on hiatus? I find it hard to believe that no one's posted here since 8/29...?

I think we got stuck posting in some of the newer threads, ya know... being rebels, going off topic and such!

 

[dexter75]

It is known fact that SA was framed for the rape. The only motive I can see for that is it was done because authorities just didn't like him and didn't want him around. He did some things, yes. Not nice things, granted. But there are people all over who do far worse things--it's not like SA or his family were/are unique.

I do not believe much of what I have heard about him or at least believe much of it has been exaggerated. I do, however, believe the story about him burning up a cat. I cannot say why, but that just sounds true to me. Now, I do not know the specifics, and am not even sure I believe the animal was alive. Still, animal cruelty is an enormous red flag for me. Anyone who does that or even laughs about someone else doing it makes me wary. I do not want neighbors like that and in regard to SA I have to go with yeah, he may have done that ugly deed. And I agree he was probably a painful thorn in the County's side for years.

I think they wanted him gone and when opportunity presented, they went about making that happen.

Then...they got caught. And they got sued. And they were going to have to pay out big time. And as the day of reckoning drew near they had no recourse to stop it. People who do not believe a frame-up could occur to save money are delusional. The millions that the state and county were going to be ordered to pay is a helluva lot of money here. Maybe not in some jurisdictions, but definitely so here.

Combine that with their pure hatred for this man who took on their corrupt souls and won and...well, you know where I'm going with this.

I see motive. All they needed was opportunity. And when that presented, they ran with it.

Another thing: People here gossip and spread rumors, sometimes even among kin. It's a fact of life here. You cannot judge someone based on what you have heard about them. I am not sure SA was or is sexually deviant as some say. I think if that were the case there would be no one really trying to help him now...they would let him rot in prison even knowing he's innocent just because their world is better off without him in it. And that's JMO.

Great post here🤘
Thanks, for sharing your perspective on this😉

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[missy1974]

I saw a post on reddit, and I thought it was an interesting thought, and would like to know what you guys think

So Zellner said she wants to test evidence that is being held at CASO to confirm what she already knows. So what could she have tested that makes her already believe that SA is innocent, that TH was killed elsewhere, and that is NOT in evidence already?

For me, I think of the red trailer at the deer camp right away. I think she tracked it down and did some testing. Or maybe even the trailers that are still at the deer camp.

 

[missy1974]

To add to the above thought..... what if she found TH's blood .... and it was mixed with someone else's blood that is NOT SA? :thinking:

 

[RANCH]

I saw a post on reddit, and I thought it was an interesting thought, and would like to know what you guys think

So Zellner said she wants to test evidence that is being held at CASO to confirm what she already knows. So what could she have tested that makes her already believe that SA is innocent, that TH was killed elsewhere, and that is NOT in evidence already?

For me, I think of the red trailer at the deer camp right away. I think she tracked it down and did some testing. Or maybe even the trailers that are still at the deer camp.

She did this without a warrant? Or some kind of secret warrant?

 

[missy1974]

She did this without a warrant? Or some kind of secret warrant?

She doesn't need a warrant if the owner gives permission, she isn't LE, to the best of my knowledge.

Just to give a brief background, and BCA knows more about this than I do, at the deer camp owned by Radandt, there was a red trailer. This is from the CASO report on page 138:

I assisted SARAH FAUSKE, a patrol officer from the KAUKALINA POLICE DEPARTMENT
and herbloodhound, LOOF, with tracking. FAUSKE and I walked the RADANDT QUARRY
and field area on different tracks. We covered approximately five to ten miles of tracking. One
of the more significant tracks that LOOF and FAUSKE tracked was from the south entry door of
the red house trailer near the concrete stoop. This track did continue in a westerly direction
toward a cul-de-sac at the end of Kuss Road. It was indicated by FAUSKE that LOOF was very
intense on this track,

(the above statement was also part of the recent motion to test evidence)

That red trailer was gone within a year of TH's disappearance. The property has also been sold IIRC (BCA?). So she could have tracked down the red trailer and did testing, or was allowed access and did testing in and/or around those other trailers. I don't believe she would need a warrant if the owners were okay with it. JMO

Also, it would be fairly easy I think for Zellner or her scientists to match DNA found with TH because that information is in the reports that are already available.

 

[RANCH]

She doesn't need a warrant if the owner gives permission, she isn't LE, to the best of my knowledge.

Just to give a brief background, and BCA knows more about this than I do, at the deer camp owned by Radandt, there was a red trailer. This is from the CASO report on page 138:

I assisted SARAH FAUSKE, a patrol officer from the KAUKALINA POLICE DEPARTMENT
and herbloodhound, LOOF, with tracking. FAUSKE and I walked the RADANDT QUARRY
and field area on different tracks. We covered approximately five to ten miles of tracking. One
of the more significant tracks that LOOF and FAUSKE tracked was from the south entry door of
the red house trailer near the concrete stoop. This track did continue in a westerly direction
toward a cul-de-sac at the end of Kuss Road. It was indicated by FAUSKE that LOOF was very
intense on this track,

(the above statement was also part of the recent motion to test evidence)

That red trailer was gone within a year of TH's disappearance. The property has also been sold IIRC (BCA?). So she could have tracked down the red trailer and did testing, or was allowed access and did testing in and/or around those other trailers. I don't believe she would need a warrant if the owners were okay with it. JMO

Also, it would be fairly easy I think for Zellner or her scientists to match DNA found with TH because that information is in the reports that are already available.

I think that it would be a good idea to get a warrant before collecting evidence for testing. What about chain of custody issues? What happens if the owner says that he/she doesn't want anything taken used in court? What about alleged evidence tampering? It's a two way street.

I see a lot of problems with Zellner gathering and testing evidence in the dark. JMO