For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[dexter75]

Thanks Missy! Talk about integrity, grit, and honor (and looks apparently too.:crush. Aaron Keller has it all!

Meh

Throw in a sleeve or two, bandana or backwards cap.. a beard:winkkiss:

Sorry, lol, messing around:giggle:

So thankful for those who DO speak up & speak out and aren't easily intimidated by the bullies around those parts.
Seems no matter how some try and spin it, each time I turn a corner something or someone offers up some info, re this case or people/events surrounding it.
Looking at those who ARE coming forward/speaking out against the county, or speculating, anyway, what is in it for them? I see nothing.

IMO, Keller probably has had many " aha " moments since this documentary has aired and folks started talking again:thinking:

 

[missy1974]

I just happened to come across this article when I was looking for something else, it's an interview with Buting and Strang. This is a good read for anyone that thinks that the system works, that when a trial is held, and subsequent appeals, that it's the end all, be all, and shouldn't question the process or the outcome. JMO

http://thejusticegap.com/2016/09/tragic-lack-humility-justice-system/

I remind him of his words. ‘It’s a core belief for me that I have come to through years of experience,’ he says. ‘There is a lack of recognition that we just might be wrong. We have to act. We have to make decisions and many of those decisions are binary: motion granted, motion denied, motion sustained, objection overruled, guilty or not guilty.’

Strang says he is not ‘arguing for ambivalence or indecision’. ‘I am arguing that in making decisions there is a healthy recognition that we could be wrong; for a willingness to re-examine later in light of new information. That sort of humility is generally lacking. It is badly missed.’

As Jerome Buting puts it: ‘In the US people think that if a jury gets it wrong, screws up and convicts someone innocent, you can have your appeal and that will set everything right. It doesn’t happen that way – here, there or anywhere – the focus of an appellate court is whether there been legal error.’

As Dean Strang notes: ‘There is arrogance in the belief that the decisions we have made are right and should be accepted for no other reason than the sake of finality. It is a great disservice to the broader public we have sworn to serve. It amounts to self-justification rather than a desire to improve the quality of justice for those on the outside of the system.’

 

[Safeguard]

Speaking of Steve Moore, I believe he was supposed to blog his opinion on the case post MAM 5 months ago after reading the CASO and the trial documents... but I haven't seen it yet.

Also on the evidence. Why, if the state is so sure of SA's guilt would they balk at all on the items being tested or retested. You have a "guilty" man with nothing left to lose wanting every test possible and state of WI with everything to lose. (if they really are guilty of framing, covering up and making a murderer) or else the state has nothing to lose if they are innocent.

Yeah. I was looking forward to Moore's opinions on the transcripts. He did mention he had other projects going on, but maybe he just couldn't scrape together enough that was *new* or revolutionary for a new piece lol. I haven't seen anything earth shattering in the transcripts, being discussed, that wasn't being talked about before they came out. ( with the exception of what we are learning from KZ).

As for the state requested hearing. I think stall tactics. Maybe they are hoping for an act of "Divine Intervention" to spare them?

 

[Coldpizza]

Done with the posturing and cliques in this Forum.

Everyone is entitled to their point of view and their opinion.

Please respect that or find yourself on the outside looking in.

Thank you

 

[Jaiddie]

http://law.wisc.edu/newsletter/Wisc...ct/The_Wisconsin_Innocence_Project_2016-09-20

This is a statement that The Wisconsin Innocence Project put out about MG and his recent writing pursuit and very public views on SA's guilt. Just thought I would include it here for those interested.

 

[missy1974]

http://law.wisc.edu/newsletter/Wisc...ct/The_Wisconsin_Innocence_Project_2016-09-20

This is a statement that The Wisconsin Innocence Project put out about MG and his recent writing pursuit and very public views on SA's guilt. Just thought I would include it here for those interested.

I read this earlier, was going to post it here and got busy doing something else, so thanks!

The WIP isn't involved in SA's defense AFAIK, so it's an interesting statement.

While Mr. Griesbach is an Advisory Board member, we want to make clear that Mr. Griesbach does not speak for, or claim to speak for, the Wisconsin Innocence Project or its Advisory Board. We do not join Mr. Griesbach in his argument that Steven Avery is guilty as convicted of the 2005 homicide of Theresa Halbach. We also agree that several of Mr. Griesbach’s specific statements in his recent writings are problematic.

 

[Jaiddie]

I read this earlier, was going to post it here and got busy doing something else, so thanks!

The WIP isn't involved in SA's defense AFAIK, so it's an interesting statement.

While Mr. Griesbach is an Advisory Board member, we want to make clear that Mr. Griesbach does not speak for, or claim to speak for, the Wisconsin Innocence Project or its Advisory Board. We do not join Mr. Griesbach in his argument that Steven Avery is guilty as convicted of the 2005 homicide of Theresa Halbach. We also agree that several of Mr. Griesbach’s specific statements in his recent writings are problematic.

np, missy. You know if you can't post things, I will, and vice-versa eventually, lol.

 

[dexter75]

I just happened to come across this article when I was looking for something else, it's an interview with Buting and Strang. This is a good read for anyone that thinks that the system works, that when a trial is held, and subsequent appeals, that it's the end all, be all, and shouldn't question the process or the outcome. JMO

http://thejusticegap.com/2016/09/tragic-lack-humility-justice-system/

Wow..I am so glad to have read this.

 

[missy1974]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...enes-off-limits-except-halbach-case/91112372/

Another great article by John Ferak

 

[dexter75]

Thanks!

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...enes-off-limits-except-halbach-case/91112372/

Another great article by John Ferak

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[IDK]

Thanks!


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Yes, thank-you very much! I don't have time to read the whole thing right now, just scanned it, but I love the timeline format. This makes it very clear exactly when certain questionable individuals were accessing the salvage yard, how their access dovetails with questionable statements that were made, and also how it dovetails with when questionable "evidence" was discovered. Can't wait to get a chance to study it in more detail.

 

[Whickswi]

http://law.wisc.edu/newsletter/Wisc...ct/The_Wisconsin_Innocence_Project_2016-09-20

This is a statement that The Wisconsin Innocence Project put out about MG and his recent writing pursuit and very public views on SA's guilt. Just thought I would include it here for those interested.

He did an AMA on Reddit, the more he talks the more ridiculous he sounds. He was bashing zellner, and being a complete embarrassment to the Innocence Project. This article was published in earlier September and speaks volumes it's unclear to me how he's even apart of the Innocence Project hope they drop him.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Well....been up at the cottage for a few days...went out to Crivitz area to visit with friends....holy moses...it is sooo dark out there...walking to the car at 11:00 pm I could not see my hand 2 feet in front of me....thank goodness the garage light went on because I could not even see where the car was...LOL (I happen to be sharing this for a reason....as I was traveling in the area, I was thinking how dark it is up by the cottage. We often have a campfire going and I was thinking if I could determine who was standing or sitting by the fire from inside the house) hum I guess our campfire is about 75 feet from the inside of the house. Interesting, I could hardly make out who was sitting there and barely see who was standing there...I wonder how ST was able to see way way way over behind SA's garage....

 

[RANCH]

Well....been up at the cottage for a few days...went out to Crivitz area to visit with friends....holy moses...it is sooo dark out there...walking to the car at 11:00 pm I could not see my hand 2 feet in front of me....thank goodness the garage light went on because I could not even see where the car was...LOL (I happen to be sharing this for a reason....as I was traveling in the area, I was thinking how dark it is up by the cottage. We often have a campfire going and I was thinking if I could determine who was standing or sitting by the fire from inside the house) hum I guess our campfire is about 75 feet from the inside of the house. Interesting, I could hardly make out who was sitting there and barely see who was standing there...I wonder how ST was able to see way way way over behind SA's garage....

When I'm at the "Ranch" and away from city lights, what makes the most difference in being able to see at night is the moon. What was the moon phase in the night in question?

 

[missy1974]

according to this site... it was 3% visible on October 31st 2005. This past Saturday was 1%, Sunday was 3%.

https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/2005/october

It also shows the few days following the 31st, which is interesting, I have always wondered if SA did see lights in his yard, how easy would is have been to get away or 'hide'.... if it's as dark as it seems it was, maybe easier than I originally thought. Same with the night CA thought he saw lights.

BCA ~ hope you had a good weekend, I'm jealous! Wish I had been at the lake

 

[BigCityAccountant]

When I'm at the "Ranch" and away from city lights, what makes the most difference in being able to see at night is the moon. What was the moon phase in the night in question?

You are absolutely right Ranch. At the cottage the moon makes a huge difference. I don't recall seeing the moon this last Saturday (not saying it wasn't out) so that could have made a difference.

Oh~~and by the way~~I promised I would check and the big "newer" sign on I-43 for the salvage yard says Norb's in Cleveland. It's about 2 miles north of SA's exit. I saw it when we were traveling southbound on I-43. I didn't get a picture because I was the passenger and all you would have seen was the hubby...LOL Oh and the Norb's sign is close to the rest area too.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

according to this site... it was 3% visible on October 31st 2005. This past Saturday was 1%, Sunday was 3%.

https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/2005/october

It also shows the few days following the 31st, which is interesting, I have always wondered if SA did see lights in his yard, how easy would is have been to get away or 'hide'.... if it's as dark as it seems it was, maybe easier than I originally thought. Same with the night CA thought he saw lights.

BCA ~ hope you had a good weekend, I'm jealous! Wish I had been at the lake

Hi Missy! :seeya:

It was an ok weekend. It rained alot. Come to think of it~~it was lightly drizzling when we left Crivitz. That's maybe why I didn't see the moon and it was so dark. Was it raining on October 31, 2005 at night?

Hubby got a nail in his tire so we stayed an extra day (there is no place to get a tire fixed on Sunday up there...LOL) unless of course you want to pay big $$$$'s. So, we opted to stay an extra day~~just got home a little while ago. Hubby had to get in all the lake toys before it got to cold. He had to go in the water...Yikes only like 50 degrees. But yesterday was nice and today was beautiful.

 

[MysticJynx]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet here. But thought I would stop in and post.

What do you guys think of Reserve Deputy K.P. Brother to Sheriff Ken P, Calling into dispatch about watching the crime scene the night of Nov 5 2005. They eventually tell him he is not needed but someone would call him if that changes. However at 11:18pm after most of LE had left the Avery Salvage Yard he is signing in. Kicker is he never signed out. Maybe just maybe the Sheriff's brother was called into help plant stuff on the property, where dogs have already hit? How many Reserve Deputies were on the property. I do know the one that knew Tammy W. was not on the property nor did it seem he was called into service that week of November.

[video=youtube;tAPHF814F18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAPHF814F18[/video]

 

[missy1974]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet here. But thought I would stop in and post.

What do you guys think of Reserve Deputy K.P. Brother to Sheriff Ken P, Calling into dispatch about watching the crime scene the night of Nov 5 2005. They eventually tell him he is not needed but someone would call him if that changes. However at 11:18pm after most of LE had left the Avery Salvage Yard he is signing in. Kicker is he never signed out. Maybe just maybe the Sheriff's brother was called into help plant stuff on the property, where dogs have already hit? How many Reserve Deputies were on the property. I do know the one that knew Tammy W. was not on the property nor did it seem he was called into service that week of November.

Hey Mystic! Nice to see you

So here's the thing... that video only has the 2 minutes where he is calling in because he got a call earlier that day about coming in, at the end of that convo, she said they will call him within 5 minutes if he is needed. (we don't hear if they call him, but they must have). If you listen to the full clip of dispatch calls, at the 11:00 mark, someone by the name of Tom calls into dispatch to let them know he is leaving the Avery property and Keith Peterson is now there. It's convenient for sure if it's KP's brother who was guarding the property at night, they had deputies in a few spots to "protect" the crime scene overnight while they were searching the property IIRC.

[video=youtube;GrzJQq2EkO4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrzJQq2EkO4[/video]

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Not sure if this was posted or not, I don't recall reading it~~so I will post it just in case it has not been shared.

[h=1]Zellner's Avery strategy risky, but payoff big[/h]
http://www.sheboyganpress.com/story...avery-strategy-risky-but-payoff-big/89669586/

Nigro said the Wisconsin authorities only had "circumstantial evidence" pointing to Avery as a prime suspect.

Regardless, Zellner won't have a cake walk in trying to win Avery's exoneration by unmasking a murderer at large, Nigro said.

"It's going to be challenging because I can't believe what's happened through the history of this case," Nigro said. "I think the starting point on a post-conviction appeal ... the defense is going to face an uphill battle. I would hope with the number of bizarre things that happened in this case, it certainly appears to be a miscarriage of justice here. I look at it and don't understand how Avery was convicted and also Brendan Dassey. That makes zero sense. Brendan Dassey's confession, that's just one of the biggest travesties of justice I've ever seen."