Found Deceased France - Émile S., 2, outside grandparent’s house, Le Vernet, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, 8 July 2023 #2

[Lonicera]

Correct.
And toddlers don’t think like adults. Don’t see risks like adults.

A 20 minute walk isn’t outside the realms of possibility for a lot of 2.5 year olds.

Respectfully I disagree with you . 1) This was not a distance a little boy could travel in 20 minutes. 2) It was a very steep place with very bushy vegetation in July. 3) the expert dogs have lost track of Emile at the washhouse in the heart of this small hamlet.
So I suspect that this little boy may have been a victim of a criminal act. JMO.

Do not forget also that this region has already experienced in the past other cases of disappearances of boys still unsolved .

 

[LadyL]

Respectfully I disagree with you . 1) This was not a distance a little boy could travel in 20 minutes. 2) It was a very steep place with very bushy vegetation in July. 3) the expert dogs have lost track of Emile at the washhouse in the heart of this small hamlet.
So I suspect that this little boy may have been a victim of a criminal act. JMO.

Do not forget also that this region has already experienced in the past other cases of disappearances of boys still unsolved .

I've only heard of one such case and it was a very long time ago & I'm not sure how close it was? can you link to MSM of the cases you reference?

 

[KooshBall]

I still think it is so strange that his skull was found so close to when the reenactment was done. More than likely a coincidence, but definitely gets me feeling creeped out at the thought of someone staging it out in the middle of the path.

 

[whinewiththegravy]

2) It was a very steep place with very bushy vegetation in July.

3) the expert dogs have lost track of Emile at the washhouse in the heart of this small hamlet.

Interesting you mention grade, vegetation, and season, which in this case were respectively steep, dense, and warm.

Are these not the very factors that are known to impede/impair* SAR canines?

*this is relatively speaking, given the unregulated, non-standardized state of the industry of handlers and their “detection” animals

 

[kittythehare]

Respectfully I disagree with you . 1) This was not a distance a little boy could travel in 20 minutes. 2) It was a very steep place with very bushy vegetation in July. 3) the expert dogs have lost track of Emile at the washhouse in the heart of this small hamlet.
So I suspect that this little boy may have been a victim of a criminal act. JMO.

Do not forget also that this region has already experienced in the past other cases of disappearances of boys still unsolved .

I think a criminal act is a real possibility insofar as there is zero evidence it was not.
I don't see a connection with the other cases though, they were long ago and far away. We discussed them in some detail upthread and somebody even opened threads on them.. I cannot recall their names now but I do remember researching them like crazy at the time.

 

[Chelly]

I think there may be many well kept secrets in this village. moo

 

[Carovb5]

“Bizarre detail keeps detectives awake at night: Emiles shoes were found without the laces”.
Sorry, in dutch.


Bizar detail houdt speurders wakker: schoenen van Emile werden teruggevonden zonder veters

 

[Megnut]

“Bizarre detail keeps detectives awake at night: Emiles shoes were found without the laces”.
Sorry, in dutch.


Bizar detail houdt speurders wakker: schoenen van Emile werden teruggevonden zonder veters

He was little. If no foul play, perhaps his untied shoelaces were tripping him up. Not old enough to be able to tie the laces, would he remove them?

 

[Lonicera]

I've only heard of one such case and it was a very long time ago & I'm not sure how close it was? can you link to MSM of the cases you reference?

On May 2, 1989, around 10 am, little Yannis Moré disappears, mysteriously, while he is having fun with three of his brothers, aged 5 to 9, in a small hut that they build a few meters from their home. Two of the children soon decide to return home. The eldest remains. But their mother, Pascaline, realizes that Yannis is no longer there. We then think that he got lost and that we will find him very quickly. After a few hours, the parents start to worry and alert the police....
Accident, runaway, kidnapping? All the hypotheses are considered by the investigators and soon beatings are organized: About a hundred gendarmes, soldiers, firefighters and volunteers participate in the search and systematically search all the surroundings. The inhabitants even let the gendarmes into their homes if they wish to have a look. Unfortunately, the search is useless. No witnesses, no clues, no suspects, no ransom demands.
Little by little the investigation gets bogged down. Until this day of October 1, 1990, sixteen months later, when a hunter discovered 600 meters from the house, two shoes, in a wooded area that had already been searched. These are the shoes Yannis was wearing when he disappeared.
For the gendarmes of the Digne search brigade, the kidnapping this time is no longer in doubt. The two leather shoes were placed side by side and the laces were undone. Gérard Puig, the director of investigation is then convinced that someone has tabled them, perhaps out of remorse . The gendarmes will also find, on a tuft of thyme, a gold medal and a chain that the child wore, at the edge of a stream dry. A few meters, there are still wet clothes: a brief, a sock, a tracksuit and the anorak of Yannis. At the time, biological tests did not reveal any traces of blood. A certainty that further reinforces the mystery: in the spring, the clothes were not there, and the area had been searched three times—Yannis MORE, disparu à l\'âge de trois ans à Ganagobie (04) | ARPD
How close it was? There would be about 50/60 km between the two places of disappearance.
Later in 1983 the Mathieu Haulbert case is a legal case concerning a ten-year-old child, Mathieu Haulbert, disappeared on June 25, 1983 at Peyroules near Castellane, in the Alpes-de-Haute-Provence (France).Affaire Mathieu Haulbert — Wikipédia

It’s always the same department: 04.
The Alps of Haute-Provence.

 

[whinewiththegravy]

Bizarre detail keeps detectives awake at night: Emiles shoes were found without the laces”.
Sorry, in dutch.

What are we thinking about the possible explanations for this that investigators offer as quoted and paraphrased in this link?

If I’m reading translations correctly, there is unspecified speculative human foul play, the terrain and possible wandering routes leading Émile to this general location intersecting with how his children’s hiking boots were tied/knotted, the material and construction of the boots’s laces, and the passage of time under extreme conditions.

Type of boots and details of their preserved, present-day condition—neither of which we have, unless I’ve forgotten a photo or description of the boots circulated during the initial search—may offer some reasonable explanations.

 

[Cedars]

What are we thinking about the possible explanations for this that investigators offer as quoted and paraphrased in this link?

If I’m reading translations correctly, there is unspecified speculative human foul play, the terrain and possible wandering routes leading Émile to this general location intersecting with how his children’s hiking boots were tied/knotted, the material and construction of the boots’s laces, and the passage of time under extreme conditions.

Type of boots and details of their preserved, present-day condition—neither of which we have, unless I’ve forgotten a photo or description of the boots circulated during the initial search—may offer some reasonable explanations.

For eg, rodents will eat some things, and not others.

JMO

 

[LadyL]

He was little. If no foul play, perhaps his untied shoelaces were tripping him up. Not old enough to be able to tie the laces, would he remove them?

or would an animal pull them out? very strange if true

 

[LadyL]

On May 2, 1989, around 10 am, little Yannis Moré disappears, mysteriously, while he is having fun with three of his brothers, aged 5 to 9, in a small hut that they build a few meters from their home. Two of the children soon decide to return home. The eldest remains. But their mother, Pascaline, realizes that Yannis is no longer there. We then think that he got lost and that we will find him very quickly. After a few hours, the parents start to worry and alert the police....
Accident, runaway, kidnapping? All the hypotheses are considered by the investigators and soon beatings are organized: About a hundred gendarmes, soldiers, firefighters and volunteers participate in the search and systematically search all the surroundings. The inhabitants even let the gendarmes into their homes if they wish to have a look. Unfortunately, the search is useless. No witnesses, no clues, no suspects, no ransom demands.
Little by little the investigation gets bogged down. Until this day of October 1, 1990, sixteen months later, when a hunter discovered 600 meters from the house, two shoes, in a wooded area that had already been searched. These are the shoes Yannis was wearing when he disappeared.
For the gendarmes of the Digne search brigade, the kidnapping this time is no longer in doubt. The two leather shoes were placed side by side and the laces were undone. Gérard Puig, the director of investigation is then convinced that someone has tabled them, perhaps out of remorse . The gendarmes will also find, on a tuft of thyme, a gold medal and a chain that the child wore, at the edge of a stream dry. A few meters, there are still wet clothes: a brief, a sock, a tracksuit and the anorak of Yannis. At the time, biological tests did not reveal any traces of blood. A certainty that further reinforces the mystery: in the spring, the clothes were not there, and the area had been searched three times—Yannis MORE, disparu à l\'âge de trois ans à Ganagobie (04) | ARPD
How close it was? There would be about 50/60 km between the two places of disappearance.
Later in 1983 the Mathieu Haulbert case is a legal case concerning a ten-year-old child, Mathieu Haulbert, disappeared on June 25, 1983 at Peyroules near Castellane, in the Alpes-de-Haute-Provence (France).Affaire Mathieu Haulbert — Wikipédia

It’s always the same department: 04.
The Alps of Haute-Provence.

ok now you've got my attention - thank you for the translation
the shoes in Yannis' case - I didn't remember that detail - that they were found in an area already searched and placed side-by-side with the laces undone
Emile's shoes were found without laces ...
was there by chance an odd shoe detail in Mathieu's case? I didn't see anything in the wiki article

 

[Lonicera]

ok now you've got my attention - thank you for the translation
the shoes in Yannis' case - I didn't remember that detail - that they were found in an area already searched and placed side-by-side with the laces undone
Emile's shoes were found without laces ...
was there by chance an odd shoe detail in Mathieu's case? I didn't see anything in the wiki article

No shoes found for Mathieu: he disappeared and no one remains, no personal effects were found. The lawyer of his parents who are still looking for him pointed out similarities between the cases of disappearance of children in Isère ( "the missing of Isère") and the disappearance of Mathieu Haulbert. Good news: this file was taken over by the Cold cases division of Nanterre in July 2022.
Près de quarante ans plus tard, le dossier de la disparition du petit Mathieu Haulbert repris en main

 

[FromGermany1]

“Bizarre detail keeps detectives awake at night: Emiles shoes were found without the laces”.
Sorry, in dutch.


Bizar detail houdt speurders wakker: schoenen van Emile werden teruggevonden zonder veters

Had the laces been used for "something"? Maybe 2 of them, because 1 was too short?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Thanks @Carovb5 I now understand why the woman took the skull.
I would have done the same in her situation.

If I didn't have a plastic bag with me, I would have to carry it in my bare hands.

Middle of the path is a bit strange

 

[whinewiththegravy]

How did the skull end up in the middle of the road/path?

I wonder if that was where a sharp grade from above more or less flattened.

That the place of this discovery met at well-trodden paths used to ramble (also, by the sound of it) scramble doesn’t discount the child reaching the area voluntarily and alone, following a path of lesser resistance, and also appears to be a suitable environment for scavengers searching for/discarding parts of big (even small human-sized) remains.

 

[Lonicera]

How did the skull end up in the middle of the road/path?

The hiker said there was a lot of strong wind that day and that’s why she picked it up: she feared that a gust of wind would take the skull away.
It was the skull of a two-and-a-half-year-old boy.
Small and light . ( sorry for these details)

 

[Lonicera]

Had the laces been used for "something"? Maybe 2 of them, because 1 was too short?

I ask myself the same question. What was the reason for not finding the laces? The investigators must have identified the model of Emile’s shoes.
The investigation is ongoing.

 

[marv hucker]

I still think it is so strange that his skull was found so close to when the reenactment was done. More than likely a coincidence, but definitely gets me feeling creeped out at the thought of someone staging it out in the middle of the path.

Ignoring what the weather’s like over winter in the French alps.
People aren’t going to be out looking over winter, and wouldn’t find anything if they did.
There’s avg 2.3 metres of snow in Haut-Alpes annually - and subsequent thaw. It’s dislodged his body from where it originally was.