France - Machine Gun attack on magazine Charlie Hebdo #1

[katydid23]

How many of these world leaders traveled as far as the distance from Washington to Paris?

Canada sent an emissary, as did the UN, which is based in NYC.

 

[jillycat]

The idea that the world dosn't turn around America and that solutions or alternatives can be found without them is healthy. The fact they didn't want to be there isn't the end of the world and may of even been perceived by the terrorists as an attempt at appeasement .....

And if such an idea had been advanced, I might agree with the sentiment. But I think of it like this - when Europe flew to America's aid and memorials and White House after 9/11, not once did it occur to me, "There they go again....thinking the world turns around them when, really, who needs 'em?"

 

[Elley Mae]

How many of these world leaders traveled as far as the distance from Washington to Paris?

Not as far as washington to hawaii
It's less then a 9 hr flight.

 

[Brightbird]

Yes that sounds right Brightbird, perhaps it simply needs to be rewritten? Also I have seen worse satire in Australia that is pure racism so I'm really not quite sure what would be censored. Looks like this debate has fired up, I do think we can't legislate against insults, but hate speech I have always seen as speech with 'intent' although I could be wrong.

I dunno, I think it's pretty good as it is. I think the other thing to point out is that in Australia we are free to use "offensive behaviour" as defined in 18c (the contentious part) but other people are also free to take us to court over it. It's not enforced by the government or police. It's a civil matter, not criminal. So it's up to someone to make a complaint under the Racial Discrimination Act.

 

[Waddles]

Hollande is now declaring the "chevalier" of the legion of honour to each of the three fallen police officers.

 

[katydid23]

I very much doubt that the President "couldn't be bothered" - the administration has expressed their regrets at not being here and I'm sure it was discussed and decided against for some reason that was not a question of not being bothered. I assure you all it is not seen as a slight here. The French very much feel the solidarity of the US and everyone I spoke to was touched by Kerry's beautiful speech of solidarity given very soon after Wednesday's attack and Obama's message subsequently. I fully realise it's disappointing and embarrassing for Americans that a high up US dignitary was not present at such a historic march but I see no criticism from the French people overall and the support of the US is very much felt and understood.

It is lovely and gracious of the French people to not be critical of the situation. I appreciate that very much. But as you said , surely " it was discussed and decided against for some reason...." That is what bothers many of us. The laid back and confusing way that our leader sometimes reacts to such situations. The excuse for not attending was a weak one, and made things worse, imo. And sending Holder, who then left early is just embarrassing.

I know that you are not finding fault with our administration. Thank you for that. But many of us tired of these kinds of flat footed responses from the White House. JMO

 

[Colin de France]

And if such an idea had been advanced, I might agree with the sentiment. But I think of it like this - when Europe flew to America's aid and memorials and White House after 9/11, not once did it occur to me, "There they go again....thinking the world turns around them when, really, who needs 'em?"

The idea i wanted to get over is that all is not lost just because the Americans weren't there and some may of seen it as a positive step....no one knows if the decision not to be there was made on purpose..

 

[Footwarrior]

Not as far as washington to hawaii
It's less then a 9 hr flight.

The Canadian Prime Minister didn't go. The other nations of North or South America did not send the head of government. Nor did Japan, Australia, New Zealand, India, China, Russia. The leaders who did attend in person were from Europe or the Middle East.

 

[jillycat]

The idea i wanted to get over is that all is not lost just because the Americans weren't there and some may of seen it as a positive step....no one knows if the decision not to be there was made on purpose..

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

I have no idea why on earth this US president was not insightful enough to grasp that this was a situation that called for demonstrated US leadership and official public expression of American sympathy and solidarity. I don't believe all is lost because we weren't there, but neither do I see anything positive about failing to appear. I believe this was a stupid decision and shabby treatment of an ally. I can appreciate the French don't see it as such, but many Americans do. I am personally really tired of this POTUS constantly re-inventing his narrative and crafting press conferences to mop up his beautiful screw-ups. And I define a beautiful screw-up as a failure so spectacular, it can be considered a work of art. He's like that person in the room that missed the social cue that's intuitive for everyone else. It is not the first time. But if there was ever a time to get it right, it's when an ally is attacked. At the very least he needs an etiquette advisor. At the most, he needs a new political advisor because I suspect this is not entirely an etiquette problem. JMO

 

[jillycat]

The Canadian Prime Minister didn't go. The other nations of North or South America did not send the head of government. Nor did Japan, Australia, New Zealand, India, China, Russia. The leaders who did attend in person were from Europe or the Middle East.

Then Josh Earnest should have noted this and not said anything further.

 

[katydid23]

The Canadian Prime Minister didn't go. The other nations of North or South America did not send the head of government. Nor did Japan, Australia, New Zealand, India, China, Russia. The leaders who did attend in person were from Europe or the Middle East.

But Canada did send an official who actually took part in the march. As did 44 other nations.

 

[Waddles]

Hollande giving speech: we are gathered as highest authorities of the state ... With the families and relatives and friends in mourning. With the police men and women we trust with our security. At a place symbol of link between republic and police since 1944. Here that the glorious week was launched leading to the declaration of the liberation of Paris. In honour of (lists the officers who died) struck by the bullets of terrorists. They have in common the desire to protect their fellow citizens. Had in common an ideal serving the republic and died with courage, bravery and dignity as police officers. To you the familes and relatives i assure you that the whole of France shares in your grief. They died so that we can live in freedom. This is what everyone marched for in France, rising massively to share your grief and attachment to liberty equality and fraternity and express their gratitude and pride in those who died and were wounded to defend the public. France showed its strength faced with fanaticism. Displayed its unity faced with those who are divided. The journalists of CH and the employees there and the victims of the kosher supermarket. All of those victims, the whole of france, three officers who represent the diversity of origin and background and the missions of the police forces in the country. Illustrate what professionalism and attachment to the values of the republic. So that nothing is ever forgotten and kept in our memory what the sacrifice was. The significance of their deaths. For that reason they have been given the legion of honour. (Hollande now lists each officer and their biography where born and why they wanted to serve. Moving and detailed biography of each of them) woman intervened and cowardly shot in the back - how can we justify such a cowardly assassination of a young woman rich with the premisses of life and devoted to her citizens. What could be the reason for this aggression. In all their harshenss she was shot because she was wearing a police officer uniform, she was a symbol of the republic. She was also there to prevent the terroist from going further in his madness (means how the nearby Jewish school was true target). Proud and happy to serve her country, will provide a beacon of light forever. Now speaks about Ahmed from a beautiful large family. Hollande says how he met his family and they told him about Ahmed and how hard he worked to become a police officer. He had a beautiful future ahead and was due for a promotion. His colleagues are here with us. Ahmed was one of those policemen that Parisians knew well;preventing accidents, intervening when needed which he had done courageously only a few months back. Very proud to represent French police. Secularity -all forms of beliefs and religions protected, all together. He knew fanaticism has nothing to do with Islam. Jihadists strike down those men and women- belief in their faith and convictions who simply want to be free and who died to oppose those fanatics. His sacrifice is a lesson he delivers to us to denounce anti-muslim acts to refuse confusion. His face, the memory of him will continue shedding light on our paths. Now speaks of Franck; joined when very young like his twin brother. Goes into detail of his personal qualities and how much he was appreciated by his colleagues and the journalists he protected at Charlie Hebdo. Accompanied Charb everywhere wherever where he went, even on visits to family and friends. He took Charb everywhere. He died gun in hand. The journalists only had their pens. Insolence and importance the better to express independence in the name of the republic. Three police officers, three faces of France. The terrorist mask of hatred that detests what France represents diversity, pluralism, secularism, peace. France will never cower, will never bow, will rise to the challenge strong, standing up thanks to its security forces who launched assault to neutralise the assassins. It is freedom in the end that won out and the people of France rose to express their attachment to living together in fraternity. The declaration of France, the motto of the republic are ideals on which France is founded, worth fighting for- this is why we have forces to defend them and with these forces we want honour and respect today. The threats are still there, at times beyond our borders and then our soldiers will have to fight but also to be found within all of us so we have to be more vigilant mobilise all our forces to reinforce police officers to ensure the security of sensitive places and also our intelligence services. It is also incongruent on the govt and all French men and women to take the necessary measures to cope with these threats in full respect for the values in which we are founded: fairness, intransigent faced with such things as anti muslim acts, intractable faced with glorification of terroism and the second to act with level headedness, take measures adapted to circumstances and finally Unity, our strongest weapon in which our strength lies. What French are capable of doing when what is essential is at stake. We are capable of confronting any peril because we are France and are a beacon for the world when liberty is at stake. (Paid beautiful tribute to police officers). Delivers message to all generations, especially the youngest who at times .. must understand what is happening what is at stake as will provide a basis for their minds. Know that if we have wounded and dead we will make them rise again and will continue fighting. Victims represent human dignity, keep on showing the honour of human beings that is our fight- the humble honour of human beings. France standing up today because police officers fell (repeats gratitude to the 3) Thanks to you France is standing. Long live the republic, long live France. (the beautiful bells of Notre Dame are now heard).

Typed that as fast as i could! Hope it makes sense

 

[Footwarrior]

But Canada did send an official who actually took part in the march. As did 44 other nations.

The U.S. was represented at the rally by our ambassador.

 

[katydid23]

The U.S. was represented at the rally by our ambassador.

Right. we were repped by someone who was already there.

 

[jillycat]

The U.S. was represented at the rally by our ambassador.

""I think it's fair to say that we should have sent someone with a higher profile to be there." - Josh Earnest

 

[Gardenlady]

Ah I see, I think it's the "you" meaning "one" When one lets one's disagreement etc. I think that is what is meant. Just assuming so!

Yes, sorry- by"you" I meant in the general sense, or "one".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ZaZara]

The British Newspaper the Guardian has finally published a Mohammed cartoon of Charlie Hebdo.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/13/charlie-hebdo-cover-magazine-prophet-muhammad


The picture they publish at the very bottom of the page online is the size of a small match box.

It comes with this caveat:

Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive.

All that is wrong with the Guardian's moral heights neatly summed up in this on phrase.



The Guardian is running this cover as its news value warrants publication.

Asked to explain the magazine’s front cover, which features a cartoon of a crying Muhammad wearing a “Je suis Charlie” badge under the heading “All is forgiven”, Rhazoui said: “We feel that we have to forgive what happened. I think those who have been killed, if they would have been able to have a coffee today with the terrorists and just talk to ask them why have they done this … We feel at the Charlie Hebdo team that we need to forgive.”

She added: “The two terrorists who killed our colleagues, we cannot feel any hate … The mobilisation that happened in France after this horrible crime must open the door to forgiveness. Everyone must think about this forgiveness.”

Her comments come after fresh condemnation of the Charlie Hebdo magazine by Muslim leaders over the magazine’s new cover.

[modsnip]



BBM

 

[Colin de France]

I get the impression some people are in another world .."sit down and have a coffee" "forgive"...these are Islamist Radicals on expansion.. !

 

[ZaZara]

I get the impression some people are in another world .."sit down and have a coffee" "forgive"...these are Islamist Radicals on expansion.. !

Colin, it's the colleagues of the slain cartoonists who are speaking about forgiving .... For all their laïcite, I think that is very Christian.

Please note that this offer is rejected by the islamic commenters. All they can think of is offense. And they are no terrorists, but IMHO their way of thinking is the same.

It sums up the conflict in a shocking way.

 

[Colin de France]

Colin, it's the colleagues of the slain cartoonists who are speaking about forgiving .... For all their laïcite, I think that is very Christian.

Please note that this offer is rejected by the islamic commenters. All they can think of is offense. And they are no terrorists, but IMHO their way of thinking is the same.

It sums up the conflict in a shocking way.

People are being put into prison right now in France for having verbally supported the terrorists action, if we are going to sit down and forgive Islamist Radicals over a cup of coffee then at least we could start with them , no ?