France - Machine Gun attack on magazine Charlie Hebdo #1

[Trident]

I will just say that I am more offended by the flogging of a blogger every week for twenty weeks than the proper use of English words to describe food and the animals they derive from that are part of the majority's diet.
I am more offended by the stoning of a 13 year old girl for the crime of being raped than the picture of a pig.
I am more offended by the use of a 10 year old girl as a murderer than the word bacon.

I find OUP's smarmy appeasement of the lunatic fringe to be utter cowardice.

I take it as the back door way to the Islamification of everyone - on the down low, so to speak.

 

[Gardenlady]

Can anyone explain to me why the radical Muslims choose to immigrate to any country that they consider so offensive? I can honestly say that I don't hate any country, race, or religion. I am a very tolerant person. That being said, I would not choose to live in a country like Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan. Their primitive views toward women, if nothing else, would offend me. Everyone needs to live in an environment that is compatible with their social & religious beliefs. Individuals cannot or should not expect any country anywhere in the world to conform to their specific wishes. That attitude is nothing more than totally insanity.

Apparently, Morocco & Turkey have few if any problems of "infidels" living among them. I've only visited there briefly but there is a very large Roman Catholic church in Casablanca & many Eastern Orthodox churches in Turkey. There are even Palestinian Christians living peacefully in Bethlehem. Then there's Jerusalem..........Christian of various denominations, Jewish, & Muslim, but the only ones causing trouble are the Muslims. What is their problem????????

Just to offer a counter argument here, there are plenty of Christian Palestinians who are not allowed to live peacefully due to trouble causing actions of the Israeli government. It is NOT only Muslims causing trouble. Just because one group does it as a "legitimate" government and the other is not doesn't make it okay.

Also, if you think all Christians get along wonderfully in the Holy Land, visit the Church of the Nativity. The Orthodox and Catholics and Copts have been arguing about a ladder and a rooftop area for generations lol.

 

[faw720]

I've often asked myself why as an immigrant you wouldn't understand you'd be expected to abide by the values of the country. New Zealand made a mistake after the end of apartheid letting everyone in in the spirit of the welcoming country it has always been without realising it was letting in supporters of apartheid -escaping from South Africa in search of a country where they could live a same life of white privilege- who were going around spreading propaganda on their streets until it was reaslied what was happening.

But bear in mind it was most often the parents and grandparents who were moderate muslims who migrated in search of a better life and its was their children and grandchildren, second and third generations becoming radicalised. Look at all the young kids from the UK, France, Germany, Austria and even the US who have been in the news for running away and joining ISIS. They were born in the country they left from!

Not only sad but total craziness! I suppose we've all been young & crazy at some point in our lives but this is ridiculous.

 

[Gardenlady]

Also - Burka, Chador, Niqab are more cultural practices than religious. Cultural and specific to an ethnic group or to certain strains of Islam, not Islam as a whole.

Even many Catholics in middle eastern countries practice headcovering, with a hijab type scarf. Or in the US even, among uber trad Catholics, headcovering is still worn at Mass (which was actually the norm for Catholic women and girls up until Vatican II, everywhere; although I'm told here in the US it was more done with hats whereas Europe and elsewhere it was the mantilla).

I do agree it is subjugating, whatever the reason.

 

[faw720]

Just to offer a counter argument here, there are plenty of Christian Palestinians who are not allowed to live peacefully due to trouble causing actions of the Israeli government. It is NOT only Muslims causing trouble. Just because one group does it as a "legitimate" government and the other is not doesn't make it okay.

Also, if you think all Christians get along wonderfully in the Holy Land, visit the Church of the Nativity. The Orthodox and Catholics and Copts have been arguing about a ladder and a rooftop area for generations lol.

I've been there. Respectfully, IMO, arguing & killing people are entirely 2 different things. JMO, it's ok to disagree but when a group starts killing because of beliefs that's taking it way too far.

 

[Gardenlady]

Undoubtedly two different things. But Israeli policy kills both Muslim and Christian Palestinians. Yet you single out Muslims as the "only" ones causing trouble.

 

[faw720]

Undoubtedly two different things. But Israeli policy kills both Muslim and Christian Palestinians. Yet you single out Muslims as the "only" ones causing trouble.

That was not my intent. I admit that I get upset with Israel at times, but I can also understand that they have a horrid history & can understand that they are a bit paranoid. Why wouldn't they be? JMO, of course.

 

[ZaZara]

FRENCH POLICE HUNT FIFTH SUSPECT


French security services have allegedly identified another suspected accomplice of Amedy Coulibaly, who kidnapped and killed four people in a kosher deli in Paris on Friday.

Daily Mail reports:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...accomplice.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

According to Le Parisien, police sources are investigating a man from a Paris suburb, who may have driven Coulibaly to the supermarket.

French police revealed that Coulibaly, 32, rented a small suburban house in Gentilly the week before the hostage situation - and filled it with an impressive arsenal of weapons.
The police refused to disclose what they discovered inside, but detectives from the Paris Criminal Brigade and a special anti-terrorism unit reportedly seized a scooter there.
This allowed them to identity another man who they believe acted as Coulibaly's accomplice.

(...)

Investigators are also following a money trail because they do not believe Coulibaly and the Kouachi brothers had the means to bankroll their activities without help.

Christophe Crepin, a spokesman for the French Police Union, said: 'Not only was there the cost of weapons, ammunition and equipment to cover, but also money needed to rent suspected hideouts like the one in Gentilly and to pay their living expenses.

'We're dealing with a well-organized mafia-like structure.'


BBM

 

[Brightbird]

Just to offer a counter argument here, there are plenty of Christian Palestinians who are not allowed to live peacefully due to trouble causing actions of the Israeli government. It is NOT only Muslims causing trouble. Just because one group does it as a "legitimate" government and the other is not doesn't make it okay.

Also, if you think all Christians get along wonderfully in the Holy Land, visit the Church of the Nativity. The Orthodox and Catholics and Copts have been arguing about a ladder and a rooftop area for generations lol.

And the coalition forces in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Undoubtedly two different things. But Israeli policy kills both Muslim and Christian Palestinians. Yet you single out Muslims as the "only" ones causing trouble.

BBM
IMO This is debatable. I realize this thread is about the terror attacks in Paris and will not further
Discuss this. However, I do not believe it is Israeli policy that kills anyone, rather, the continuous and persistant threat of terror in their homeland.

 

[FindHG]

Good post, I think you're right, I think they fit the ideal profile for those behind this.
But then this Coulibaly guy, 9 sisters!

Go figure. The Montrouge killer seems like a dumbass psycho, to me, whatever else he was or claimed to be. I imagine, seeing that he was having a hard time pronouncing his own name, he was not what you'd call a bright bulb in the batch, as his own wife disparages him too in the reports of her interview with LE. His complete lack of emotion and ra ra spiel (wardrobe changes), in the video released of him on the internet apparently just before his killing 4 more people at the market, is just pyscho, cult-like, blind, deep cool aid, like all these terrorists/jihadists, not reasonable convictions thoughtfully reached, but based on human weak points, like hate.

 

[Fifth Avenue]

Apparently Saudi blogger just wanted to reform religion, questioned islamic dogmas.

He was also against Hamas saying Israel should not be replaced by religious state that spreads culture of hate.

Now in prison, flogged in public by sharia police as crowd chants 'Allah akbar'
Just disgusting treatment & witchhunt

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/14/-sp-saudi-blogger-extracts-raif-badawi


WATCH: Saudi Arabian Blogger Publicly Receives '50 Lashes' For Expressing Free Speech - http://t.co/cFVf9Y1Ct6 http://t.co/KMWgN9HHLv


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[Momoffourboys]

Refusal to Name the Enemy

http://www.hannity.com/articles/news-476261/refusal-to-name-the-enemy-13151317

 

[Gardenlady]

BBM
IMO This is debatable. I realize this thread is about the terror attacks in Paris and will not further
Discuss this. However, I do not believe it is Israeli policy that kills anyone, rather, the continuous and persistant threat of terror in their homeland.

Debatable sure - but the post I was quoting singled out Muslims as the "only ones" causing trouble. That's very debatable. Depends on who you ask in the area. My catholic and Muslim Palestinian friends would give you one answer; Israelis most likely another.

It's unfair to single one side out - there have been provocations and killings committed by all sides.


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[Gardenlady]

That was not my intent. I admit that I get upset with Israel at times, but I can also understand that they have a horrid history & can understand that they are a bit paranoid. Why wouldn't they be? JMO, of course.

Not trying to single you out here, but I def want to single in on this issue, how we get tunnel vision about one group or another. Your intent might not have been there, but when you say Muslims are the "only ones causing trouble" that's problematic. People tend to view the response against Israel as "terrorism" because the U.S. And others don't recognize the PA as a legitimate state. But to the Palestinians - Muslim and Christian - the response is in direct action to provocations and a to of violence against their people, and so is more akin to an act of war.

Just because Israel has the upper hand politically - as a mostly-recognized state - doesn't make their actions any less provocative than the Palestinian actions. Israel too are "causing trouble". So I think it's a terribly unfair characterization of Israel/Palestine to characterize it the way you did, as being "only Muslims".

Thanks for the tough yet respectful responses - appreciate it.


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[Cappuccino]

My point was conforming to Western ways and "us" conforming to allow this. Their argument was refusing to wear the traditional uniform hat of the Mounties on duty. I dont see any Police, Fireman etc. running around with Turbins on duty. What they wear on their own time I could care less. Merely a point to ponder.

Its not a point to ponder really, it was settled back in the 1970s and 80s in all countries in which Sikhs have emigrated to. They haven't demanded anything else since, and they have integrated just fine. So fine, in fact, that alot of people don't even notice they're there, or if they do they make the mistake of thinking they are muslim.

Sikhs wear turbans. Its part of their religion, and in any walk of life where wearing a turban might endanger you, eg policeman, riding a motorcycle, etc, Sikhs have said they would rather take the risk than take their turbans off. They're not shoving it on anybody else, they're not offended by the rest of us not wearing a turban, they just want to wear them themselves. File under not a big deal.

 

[Gardenlady]

Agree about the sexism aspect, like seriously that almost makes other women free game, it's not a very appealing religion is it?

None of them really are appealing lol!


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[Cappuccino]

Yes, we had a similar debate here, and ended up banning the full face coverings in parliament, but lifted that almost as soon as it was put in place: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-house-burqa-ban-dumped-20141019-118j5h.html Being an atheist I absolutely love the idea that religious symbols can't be worn in some places, but I really do think that if a muslim woman chooses to wear the burqa it is her right to do so. Yes we have women in burqas here too, personally I find it confronting, but I do understand that under all that covering is a normal woman, and I would hate to think that women who are comfortable only wearing one in public would now not even go out to the shops because her adopted country wont allow it.

That's all very well but you have to respect French culture too. We all talk alot about respecting foreign cultures and customs, and somehow overlook that French culture is also a very real thing which needs to be respected. France has it ingrained in their political, legal, and societal norms that there is a strict separation between church and state, and that is a paradigm which is centuries old.

To walk around the streets of France with a religious symbol across your face is not respecting French culture. And given that anybody who knows anything about France should know that, well if you don't want to live in a strictly secular country, don't move to France. French women don't move to Iran and insist on walking around the streets in bikinis.

 

[Dogface]

I saw one person in rural Va walking down a some what rural rd, in a black burka, haven't seen one since. This was over a year ago. Weird because no one walks in that area, and there was no broken down vehicle, so cross that out. jmo

That lady was on the news! I forget how long she was walking for but she became a bit of an internet sensation!

 

[Waddles]

Good morning, I managed to procure a copy of Charlie Hebdo by getting up crazy early