GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[Timex]

But did you let your kids run around the house around dinner time with their shoes on? What time were they supposed to eat dinner or had they already?
I'm just curious. Sometimes it's the little things that can mean something if anything at all. Just grasping for straws here...

Sure, why wouldnt they wear shoes at dinner time? Especially if we would be going back outside after dinner?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Do you REALLY think it would have made a bit of difference if the grandma had sat on that porch? I dont.

Absolutely! Name me one case where the relative saw a child being abducted five feet in front of them. It doesn't happen Timex.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Maybe if they are slip-ons. If they tie - probably not.

My 4 year old can't tie yet.

Good point.

The shoes described that these children had on were definitely tennis shoes and outdoor type shoes, not slipper or casual shoes.... I know some parents don't want kids running around the hosue with shoes on because of tracking dirt in the house.

The description of the attire on the children is very detailed right down to the shoes. This is why I scratch my head. Why did the kids have their shoes on?
It's 6 at night, not like it's early afternoon where they would be out playing.

 

[Timex]

Really, when multiple kids are missing, it most likely hadn't been the parents? I think otherwise honestly. Anytime I've seen more than one child missing, it was an abduction by an estranged parent or a murder by a parent... most often abduction though, but indeed by a parent.

Multiple kids...yes...I was talking missing kids in general. Although in this case, Im not leaning towards parental involvement at this time for a couple reasons. That could change if LE were to say certain things, but right now Im not seeing it.

 

[Jovin]

regarding them having been "taken"....it wouldn't be that easy, to grab hold of two screaming (maybe) kicking toddlers, rush out of the house or yard and open the gate and close it again, unless this person had alot more than two arms.

Even if there was no struggle, and the person said..."hey quick...I have to show you somethng...shhh....it's a surprise...don't let your Mom hear us..."

 

[Casshew]

Do you REALLY think it would have made a bit of difference if the grandma had sat on that porch? I dont.

I think Avila would not have taken Samantha had their been a adult visable. IMO

Having said that, here in Ontario - some guy grabbed a little girl right from her Mom when they were holding hands walking through a mall. So you can never tell...

 

[Timex]

Good point.

The shoes described that these children had on were definitely tennis shoes and outdoor type shoes, not slipper or casual shoes.... I know some parents don't want kids running around the hosue with shoes on because of tracking dirt in the house.

The description of the attire on the children is very detailed right down to the shoes. This is why I scratch my head. Why did the kids have their shoes on?
It's 6 at night, not like it's early afternoon where they would be out playing.

6 at night means there is still a good 2 hours daylight left. I could see going back outside after dinner, but then we live in a rural area, so perhaps we do things differently than others. As for the detailed info on the shoes...its quite possible they only have one or 2 pair. We arent talking well to do folk here.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Multiple kids...yes...I was talking missing kids in general. Although in this case, Im not leaning towards parental involvement at this time for a couple reasons. That could change if LE were to say certain things, but right now Im not seeing it.

Gotcha... sorry, didn't mean to put words in anyone's posts.

To me, it just seems odd that someone would take TWO children... that's risky... especially when they could put up a struggle and the time span is so short...

Did anyone have anything against the parents?

And I ask again... does either parent have family in Georgia?? Family would be the most likely to take two children.

 

[Timex]

regarding them having been "taken"....it wouldn't be that easy, to grab hold of two screaming (maybe) kicking toddlers, rush out of the house or yard and open the gate and close it again, unless this person had alot more than two arms.

Even if there was no struggle, and the person said..."hey quick...I have to show you somethng...shhh....it's a surprise...don't let your Mom hear us..."

If they knew the perp it wouldnt be difficult IMO.

 

[luthersmama]

Let's look at this a different way. Let's assume for a minute that the kids were inside the house while mom's in the bathroom. Somebody comes in and takes them.

Who could grab TWO toddlers and get them out of the house against their will and without them shrieking?

Maybe it wasn't against their will? Maybe it was somebody they knew?

Or maybe it was more than one person? How many pedophiles operate in teams?

Now let's assume they were outside. This is not a well-traveled road, and the neighbors seem to know what's going on.

Is a strange car going to be ignored? Can one person stuff two struggling toddlers into a car without a fuss?

Again, maybe it wasn't a stranger. Have we heard anything about grandparents?

I'm afraid my conclusion is that they were not abducted and that the mother knows exactly where they are. A stranger abduction of two toddlers is rare enough to begin with. Having it happen in a rural nowhere makes it even less likely.

I don't blame her for not locking the door - I never locked mine when my kids were little. Unfortunately, I think she killed them.

 

[tybee204]

When you have young childen in the house you absolutly have to take precautions. I live on the water so now that Emma is walking and on the go I had all my doors alarmed so that when she is here I can turn it on and it will activate an alarm if a door is opened.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

6 at night means there is still a good 2 hours daylight left. I could see going back outside after dinner, but then we live in a rural area, so perhaps we do things differently than others. As for the detailed info on the shoes...its quite possible they only have one or 2 pair. We arent talking well to do folk here.

True, but a 2 and 3 year old go out to play after dinner or I mean after 6?? I think that's a far stretch.... I don't know though, I could just be old fashioned. I just don't see 2 and 3 year olds out playing after 6pm where i live... that's too little.

 

[lady-eowyn]

I still wonder why the kids still had their shoes on if they had been inside from 4 to 6....

Believe it or not I have known parents who leave shoes on their kids all the time, even indoors. Maybe they had been out earlier and just hadn't taken them off. Everyone does things differently...we can't assume guilt just because we wouldn't do it the same way.

 

[ISPTRAX]

I just watched the Fox video and I believe TWO things to be possible:

#1 - they're in the lake. Did you see how HUGE it was and RIGHT NEXT to the house??

#2 - The Mom did something to them. My hinky's going off with her for some reason.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Believe it or not I have known parents who leave shoes on their kids all the time, even indoors. Maybe they had been out earlier and just hadn't taken them off. Everyone does things differently...we can't assume guilt just because we wouldn't do it the same way.

I can understand your point... but two hours?? 6pm? That's close to dinner and little kids at the age of 2 and 3 running around all day with shoes on? I guess I'm making too much out of it.

 

[luthersmama]

regarding them having been "taken"....it wouldn't be that easy, to grab hold of two screaming (maybe) kicking toddlers, rush out of the house or yard and open the gate and close it again, unless this person had alot more than two arms.

Even if there was no struggle, and the person said..."hey quick...I have to show you somethng...shhh....it's a surprise...don't let your Mom hear us..."

I must have been typing when you posted....I agree completely. Stranger abduction makes no sense here.

 

[Timex]

I cant see them as having wandered off, simply because how far could they get in such a short time? The only way I could see this scenario is if, sadly, they were to be found in the lake/pond.

I have a hard time thinking the mother failed the polygrapah because LE is saying they are still hoping to find the children alive. If they had suspicions of the mother, I wouldnt think they would still be saying this, nor do i think they would still be asking for people to call in "tips". We have heard nothing about "red flags" etc in her, or any other polygraph.

Taking 2 children would be brazen, to say the least, but again, if it were someone the children knew, or even recognized, it would become a lot easier.

 

[luthersmama]

I can understand your point... but two hours?? 6pm? That's close to dinner and little kids at the age of 2 and 3 running around all day with shoes on? I guess I'm making too much out of it.

If I had two kids of that age, once I got those shoes on and tied they would stay on until bed time just to avoid the hassle of on and off and on and off....especially if they are used to going in and out of the house all the time.

 

[Jovin]

Having said that, here in Ontario - some guy grabbed a little girl right from her Mom when they were holding hands walking through a mall. So you can never tell...

Cass, which one was that? I don't remember that one!

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I cant see them as having wandered off, simply because how far could they get in such a short time? The only way I could see this scenario is if, sadly, they were to be found in the lake/pond.

I was just saying the same thing to my mom.... how far could two kids get within 5 minutes or so while the mother was in the bathroom?
It takes me 8 minute minimum to run a mile about quite a while to just walk a mile... If one kid fell in the pond/lake, would the other jump in to save him or her? I don't think so, because I think the kid would freak out and run back into the house to tell mommy.

I'm just trying to fathom what happened and it's really hard to imagine this. When one child is missing like this, the possibilities are endless but with two missing -- two very young kids -- it's hard to imagine the same scenarios.