GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[fred&edna]

I don't know. Maybe thrill is not the right word. Stabbing someone to death is killing, beheading is a whole other level.

On the TX case, there was no motive released yet on why the perp killed and cut off the victim's head. The victim and the perp were not known to each other. No money was taken out of the wallet so there was no robbery. Don't know what he did with the head. If he was just out to kill someone, he could have just stabbed him to death.

I don't know about the CA case because no one has been arrested yet and no suspect.

On the Dermond case, I don't get the reason why towels were used. Were the towels from the home or brought there? Could Mr Dermond have had the towels in his hands when he was accosted? If the body was midway in the garage between the two cars, the blood would have congealed before running out of the garage and they said it wasn't much blood there anyway. Did the towels prop up the neck for easy cutting? A hit-man wouldn't have bothered with any towels. What if the towels was used by the killer to kneel on? I wonder if they were able to get touch DNA off of the towels?

Thanks for info on the other decap cases.

And, good questions regarding the towels... especially as possible sources of evidence!

 

[watcher9]

I know, right?! You'd think at least one of the perps wouldn't be able to resist taking an item or two. So, maybe the killers could afford these things on their own... or maybe already owned better? Or the hostility (or "animus" per SS) was far greater than the desire to grab the expensive watches or bourbon.


Also, here's a comment by SS regarding fear associated with this case:

“I’ve never dealt with a case where so many people were reluctant to talk,” he said. “They’re reluctant because they’re afraid they’re going to get their heads cut off. There’s a lot of fear.”

https://patch.com/georgia/cartersvi...t-continues-for-suspect-in-husbands-beheading


'Seems as if the Dermonds (or their family) actually had an enemy but no one will talk about it.

I believe SS was talking about the friends and neighbors who were afraid to talk.
From your link.-

Sheriff Sills told the newspaper the biggest challenge has been interviewing nervous friends and neighbors of the Dermonds.

 

[fred&edna]

I believe SS was talking about the friends and neighbors who were afraid to talk.
From your link.-

You're right. They had been searching the areas near the home when that article was written (May 16).

But, if the killer/s knew the D's and were familiar with their home and the lake... then this killer could be among the friends and neighbors.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Sure seems like the killers knew the house and area and the Dermonds well. The only reason to not steal valuables is because they knew they could get caught with them somehow by either pawning them or by a search.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Good to hear from you Lawdog! Ok, did a bank check, half open half closed on saturdays in eatonton, one in particluar was drive thru only, all closed by noon....https://www.google.com/search?q=eat...999994!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i173!2i369!4f13.1

.Dont know where the D's banked at or if any articles mentioned it......but appears they are all or MOST by the publix he went to on Greensboro Rd

As far as cash or safety deposit box from the bank, Mr D would have to go in the bank, he'd have to go without MRS D and without the perpetrators and she would have had to been held hostage during this endeavor, so that makes sense to me......but we do not know if he went to the bank as SS has not discussed this with the public and according to PH the last article, SS asked for any reporters to withhold certain information and said he would lie if that's what it took to solve this case
But wouldnt that be discoverd missing if they went to the bank vault? According to SS, nothing of value was taken and that was not information withheld from the public so to catch a thief as only he/she may know certain info......but , I presume that means anything at the banks SD box too if one existed and no cash in banks was amiss

I think the only thing gained was the inheritance

I'm still trying to figure out why take Mrs D away from the crime scene of the garage, and weight her down in the lake, only to float up and become tethered to tree limbs growing out of the water? Why did the perp (s) not just leave her body in the garage along with Mr D? Was she taken FIRST, away from the home BEFORE the murder of Mr D? What was the point in separating the two Dermonds?

Exactly what was the point? IMO, they took Mrs. D away from the house in order to get her or Mr. D to talk. They wanted an answer from one of them as to something they wanted. Was it coins, cash, records, copies of birth certificates, deeds?????? Did they need a combination to a lock box, vault, safe, or maybe the name of someone that had the item(s) for safekeeping.. I think it was #7 but also a familiar presence was also on scene, which would explain the rage. Mrs. D. afraid not to talk as was Mr. D because they had them both in separate places to see who would talk first...Mrs. D never made it back home and poor Mr. D left in a horrific scene....sending a message to the safekeeper?????? JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I think the towels were tucked under the torso and arm IIRC, he'd also been dragged thru his own blood for some reason and his body was behind the cars so that would be right at the garage door

from what I understand and read, the towels were used to stop the flow of blood from the pool of blood under Mr D's body, to keep it from running out under the garage door

to me it appears they didnt want him discoverd right away, the garage door is at the driveway byt he screened porch, so ANYONE pulling up would have seen that, makes sense to me in order to get past that 48 hour window

OR MAYBE, the killers were still in the dang house at the time and didnt want to draw attention.....i would guess they'd have locked all the doors while inside, there is no exterior door exit from garage except the garage door, so that means they had to go IN or THRU the house to exit since teh back door was unlocked it appears so, maybe they just passed thru and didnt' linger inside, so that had to either have the garage door opener to close the garage if they exited that way OR they used the kitchen door lakeside to enter and exit

Anyone that didnt know the dermonds well would probably not wander aruond the house or thru the screened porch looking for them BUT someone familiar with them would adn so after a few days someone did and they wandered around back found an open door, which gave the killers a 48 or atleast 24 hour window of opportunity since the Derby party was ongoing on saturday and most certainly NO ONE would show up on saturday and possibly only by late sunday to check but sadly not until tuesday after

so maybe the towels kept the blood from flowing under the garage door, so any delivery persons or acquaintence stopping by casually wouldnt see the blood.......

I wonder how many close friends they had, I wonder WHO KNEW THEY DIDNT HAVE CLOSE FIENDS, WHO KNEW about the derby party, who knew the neighbors were in asia, WHO btw was a wooded half acre or more between them and the D's........but the one that checked on them wasn't a CLOSE enough friend to wait 3 days IMO

I don't know. Maybe thrill is not the right word. Stabbing someone to death is killing, beheading is a whole other level.

On the TX case, there was no motive released yet on why the perp killed and cut off the victim's head. The victim and the perp were not known to each other. No money was taken out of the wallet so there was no robbery. Don't know what he did with the head. If he was just out to kill someone, he could have just stabbed him to death.

I don't know about the CA case because no one has been arrested yet and no suspect.

On the Dermond case, I don't get the reason why towels were used. Were the towels from the home or brought there? Could Mr Dermond have had the towels in his hands when he was accosted? If the body was midway in the garage between the two cars, the blood would have congealed before running out of the garage and they said it wasn't much blood there anyway. Did the towels prop up the neck for easy cutting? A hit-man wouldn't have bothered with any towels. What if the towels was used by the killer to kneel on? I wonder if they were able to get touch DNA off of the towels?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

maybe they have, just posting scenarios for clarity, I did track teh one black elderly man in NY?? do ya;ll remember that one? he was beheaded, lived alone. I posted info about it way back in this or another thread....None have been nearby but I still think it would have been morein GA if just for thrills, they tend to have a big gap in between kills dont they? Which is what we've seen from various murders that have occurred by elderly that people posted aobut on here, I think several of those are also unsolved but SS had checked into a few of those and it didnt seem to be connected so IDK

Maybe they have killed more people, maybe they moved on to another area and using different methods of murder.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

BUT who does that? Would the Dermonds have their's set for far more knowing they were so old fashioned and not carefree in nature? But thanks usually they are limited....

ATM withdrawal transactions can be set for FAR more than $300.

I'm going with #7.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

THANK YOU!! You are right! totally slipped my mind..........so now someone will ask, did that piss off the perps so they dragged her down the lake and beheaded him? Spending much time and effort they becuase of no atm card, even at that..............their's was problaby a limied withdrawal and the drivethru was open but nothing was withdrawn..

back to square 1 LOL

(I'm not sure it matters but... ) this report states MrD didn't have an ATM card

"They lived a remarkably simple life, Sills said. Russell Dermond only had two credit cards and put everything on those to rack up rewards points. He didn’t even have an ATM card as he never carried cash, the sheriff said."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/georgia-couple-killing-leaves-authorities-baffled-article-1.1828839

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I added in the quote.....HUNTER DEEP SEA FISHERMAN/FISHERMAN....THEY BROUGHT FISH NETTING AND KNIFE, POSSIBLY FILET KNIFE??

wanted to add, all they really did was come up by boat, boaters visit each other on teh lake all the time....nothing suspicious about that or a fisherman at night or day in coves, perfect fishing spots sometimes

they came by boat, walked up the deck, whether invited or not, walked into screen porch lake side, entered kitchen door inside screen porch, and they never even had to enter the rest of the house
the door to garage was straight thru the kitchen

maybe Mrs D was on the porch having morning coffee and had exited that kitchen door early on

No one else came by that we know of

Only this one couple and it took 3 days

there were calls but did the daughter call about the derby results to discuss with her parents? I find that odd if not, she was a big equine enthusiast and attended kY derby in ky this year......jus thought it'd be a big thing to talk abuot afterwards especially since she was just there less than 2 weeks prior

Thoughts (incomplete) as I dash off to work this morning:

Forensically-smart

Disciplined/planner

Familiar with M/M D and their home

Boater

Gun/Knife enthusiast/ ........dancin added.......HUNTER, DEEP SEA fisherman/FIsherman

What did they bring to Dermond home? Gun, cement blocks, dancin added....FISH NETTING, Filet KNIFE?

Did they bring decap tools or did they use tools found in Dermond home or garage?

What “valuable item/s” did they attempt to extort?

If no military background... what about a perp with law enforcement background?? Or medical background??

 

[Lawdog99]

Good to hear from you Lawdog! Ok, did a bank check, half open half closed on saturdays in eatonton, one in particluar was drive thru only, all closed by noon....https://www.google.com/search?q=eat...999994!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i173!2i369!4f13.1

.Dont know where the D's banked at or if any articles mentioned it......but appears they are all or MOST by the publix he went to on Greensboro Rd

As far as cash or safety deposit box from the bank, Mr D would have to go in the bank, he'd have to go without MRS D and without the perpetrators and she would have had to been held hostage during this endeavor, so that makes sense to me......but we do not know if he went to the bank as SS has not discussed this with the public and according to PH the last article, SS asked for any reporters to withhold certain information and said he would lie if that's what it took to solve this case
But wouldnt that be discoverd missing if they went to the bank vault? According to SS, nothing of value was taken and that was not information withheld from the public so to catch a thief as only he/she may know certain info......but , I presume that means anything at the banks SD box too if one existed and no cash in banks was amiss

I think the only thing gained was the inheritance



But there could have been a safe or lock box in the home or someone was keeping something safe for them. Someone needed that combination or to know who had the item.....also sending a message to the safekeeper they are coming to get it. Maybe no one knew else knew about it (that's the point) except the one trying to get it. So actually nothing was missing.......

 

[fred&edna]

THANK YOU!! You are right! totally slipped my mind..........so now someone will ask, did that piss off the perps so they dragged her down the lake and beheaded him? Spending much time and effort they becuase of no atm card, even at that..............their's was problaby a limied withdrawal and the drivethru was open but nothing was withdrawn..

back to square 1 LOL

I wasn't sure this mattered as funds can be withdrawn from an ATM using a credit card, and we know they had credit cards.

However, (IMO) the facts of the case don't support this scenario. I don't think the killers were there to obtain money that could be withdrawn from an ATM (whether by ATM card OR credit card).

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

well I guess its a mute point because if we are getting the truth from SS, there were no large or suspiction withdrawals or charges on their accounts.......

I wasn't sure this mattered as funds can be withdrawn from an ATM using a credit card, and we know they had credit cards.

However, (IMO) the facts of the case don't support this scenario. I don't think the killers were there to obtain money that could be withdrawn from an ATM (whether by ATM card OR credit card).

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

that's true, was just talking about safes! But what good is a deed.........well you know I mentioned someone like TM atty , who loves his guns and all.....I think it's down to someone like that they trusted or the family

I can see there being a private loan or something and the friend being prominent enough that they trusted him/her and said they'd have it recorded, especially if this friend was atty and lived in the area and needed money and maybe they wanted the unrecoreded document that was in the safe........ so made it all look like a hit.........you know the dermonds couldnt live after that, they knew too much

hmmm, okay my indecisiveness is back on LOL

Good to hear from you Lawdog! Ok, did a bank check, half open half closed on saturdays in eatonton, one in particluar was drive thru only, all closed by noon....https://www.google.com/search?q=eat...999994!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i173!2i369!4f13.1

.Dont know where the D's banked at or if any articles mentioned it......but appears they are all or MOST by the publix he went to on Greensboro Rd

As far as cash or safety deposit box from the bank, Mr D would have to go in the bank, he'd have to go without MRS D and without the perpetrators and she would have had to been held hostage during this endeavor, so that makes sense to me......but we do not know if he went to the bank as SS has not discussed this with the public and according to PH the last article, SS asked for any reporters to withhold certain information and said he would lie if that's what it took to solve this case
But wouldnt that be discoverd missing if they went to the bank vault? According to SS, nothing of value was taken and that was not information withheld from the public so to catch a thief as only he/she may know certain info......but , I presume that means anything at the banks SD box too if one existed and no cash in banks was amiss

I think the only thing gained was the inheritance



But there could have been a safe or lock box in the home or someone was keeping something safe for them. Someone needed that combination or to know who had the item.....also sending a message to the safekeeper they are coming to get it. Maybe no one knew else knew about it (that's the point) except the one trying to get it. So actually nothing was missing.......

 

[fred&edna]

I added in the quote.....HUNTER DEEP SEA FISHERMAN/FISHERMAN....THEY BROUGHT FISH NETTING AND KNIFE, POSSIBLY FILET KNIFE??

RSBM

I'm not a lake dweller and I don't know anything at all about fishing. Were the blocks wrapped in netting specifically for deep sea fishing and/or special fishing nets?? I better do some additional homework.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I just mentioned that to a prior post....gonna read up on it again but thinking this one or the elderly couple in the upper class community who were murdered have not been solved either

Here's another case that hasn't been mentioned http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0620-inglewood-decapitation-20150620-story.html if you look up info on this case there is none that I could find. you'd think this would make national news

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

all reports have only said netting that I have seen...........i mentioend way back, was it FISH NETTING?construction netting, the orange stuff you see at commercial construction sites not the black silt fencing that looks like trampoline pad..............OR was it BIRD netting? what other types of netting could be used?

I used the fact that SS went to Jacksonville to talk to his friend on that cold case team to conclude that POSSIBLY he went there since a dermond son lives there and possibly that there was fishing netting used in this crime......and the fact that SS said a hunter/finsherman was possibly the killer due to knives, the lake and the netting, which we foudn out about after 3 years

RSBM

I'm not a lake dweller and I don't know anything at all about fishing. Were the blocks wrapped in netting specifically for deep sea fishing and/or special fishing nets?? I better do some additional homework.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

you know.....i dont know if i mentinoed it on here but SS said he only went back 6 months in the Dermonds records.....................maybe he should go back a few years...........how do you know if they loaned any money out before that, maybe it was to be a big payoff and the document wsa never recorded or even if wasnt' to be recorded, either way, no one else knew about it...............and like SS the killer was someone they were atleast acquainted with so that could explain a little............but wouldnt that mean the person that had the beef with them was THE KILLER instead of a HIRED HIT.........do we think a person he was mixed up with would be able to do this to them himself or in this case him and a helper..............that means the HELPER knows and where is he, WHO is he?

Good to hear from you Lawdog! Ok, did a bank check, half open half closed on saturdays in eatonton, one in particluar was drive thru only, all closed by noon....https://www.google.com/search?q=eat...999994!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i173!2i369!4f13.1




But there could have been a safe or lock box in the home or someone was keeping something safe for them. Someone needed that combination or to know who had the item.....also sending a message to the safekeeper they are coming to get it. Maybe no one knew else knew about it (that's the point) except the one trying to get it. So actually nothing was missing.......

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Yeah you make a good point...I could agree with that, thrills, not drugs, not something that would be from anger or needing a fix, they would leave behind a mess........Ill add that to the list, basically a serial killer or thrill killer..... Im going to also add Jihadist muslim extremist but they wouldnt have been acquainted with someone like that, not that they didnt know someone of that race...........but it could make sense that it was an extemist, anti christian going around looking for easy targets but these we've dicussed on here like the Dermonds are all over the country, Mr BO jangles from inglewood, he was an avid walker like Mr D, attended church regularly like teh D's, was elderly lik elderly like the D's and nothing was taken (that was apparent) like the Dermonds as well

But to go all over the country committing these crimes, HOW do these perps live? What income do they have? are they homeless traveling around?

We all know was FF insisted, maybe it was not THAT group but one like them, like i said jehadist but usually they wreck havoc and it's not a secret

OMG, so many questions still!!

That's the question. Who hired them? They had no enemies and money apparently wasn't a problem with their children. The children sold their parents' home at a loss just to get rid of it because none would ever want to visit there again after what had happened. And that's what I can't agree with #7 or any of the others either.

Maybe we should add something to the list like shock value - not necessarily a gang initiation - but just the mentality of cruelty that runs through the world nowadays. Maybe it's just a game - pick out a victim/s, plan it out and execute it without getting caught. Not for money - just for thrills!

Take the case from CA listed above.

Take another case, this one from TX - WS link

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-decapitated-Angleton-27-April-2016-*Arrest*

 

[watcher9]

Maybe there is some sort of video game, show or movie that incorporates beheading into their plan? That could be one reason it is all over the country.
Remember when the game of Dungeons & Dragons was big, crimes including murder were committed with that game plan.

May not be a repeat of this crime once they found out how hard it actually was to decapitate someone? But, they may still kill again..