GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[tomkat]

Thank you!

Plumeria mentinoed a timeline, Ive had a full day today, been wondering all day what's ahppening here

Any timelines yet?

Jumping off your post, I think the murderers came prepared with the tools they needed. IMO, these killings were deliberate, well planned out, vengeful and appeared to have some degree of sophistication. I also think RD was the target and SD was secondary so there were no witnesses. The murderers are trying to send a message to someone, either personally related or as an example.

IMOO, if this was to be viewed as an example, the Dermonds were selected because of their age, inability to effectively fight back, seclusion of their residence, access to water (perfect ingress/egress), low probability of being caught in the act, and due to the gruesomeness of the crime, a large amount of media coverage.

IMO, the murderers had prior knowledge of the waterway, security, boating; came prepared; and robbery was not the motive. As a smart poster on the previous thread mentioned, the perpetrators may have used the golf course and Ritz Hotel as a ruse to further implement their plan. Sophisticated killers can pass themselves off as just that and not arouse suspicion. JMV

 

[tomkat]

I wonder if LE gave polygraphs to the Dermond's family, and everyone else close to them.

but they know something IMO

 

[Advocate1]

You are totally correct, but I don't think that is why the killer did that. That is what I was referring to. And thinking that I asked what was the point. ty

See and I think that is exactly why the killer did that.
There is no question the killers meant to send message. Part of solving this crime will be figuring out what that message was and who it was targeting.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They are really common here in GA too- the palmetto bushes, tall grasses/weeds and kudzu. Also, can't forget sportsmen's knives- for hunting/ fishing.

Yes they certainly are. They are in every hardware store I have ever been in over in the gardening section.

And remember if it is someone in that neighborhood it seems to take an act of congress to cut down a tree bigger than 6 inch in diameter but I am sure they expect them all to keep the low growing brush cut back neat to the ground that come up around and in between the trees.

If not it can get to be quite a problem and we have scrub oaks in Georgia where I live, and I cant stand those scrappy ugly things so I whack them down with my machete before they can grow taller.:floorlaugh:

 

[tomkat]

I like your thoughts on the timeline. Can we put together a timeline starting with the family Easter visit? I know it won't be exact but maybe seeing it all in order will help somehow. Adding in Shirley's last bridge meeting and Russell's trip to Publix.

YES

SOrry, been out all day! I would say DYING to get back on here, but scratch that phrase, haha, but curious all day

 

[Advocate1]

With the exception of taking Mrs. Dermond.

And that is a very big exception.

Big exception.
Great minds think alike my friend.

 

[Advocate1]

I'd also be looking into finances to see if anyone close to the victims was having hardships and being rebuffed in their pleas for assistance.

I agree, finances should be gone over very carefully.
I still am wondering if they kept a large amount of cash in the home.
Who bought the boat?
Who ran their credit card up for 2k?
Who have the hired to work for them?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The Daily Mail should be completely ignored as a source of "facts". It is on par with the Enquirer. I know for a fact that during the first Gulf war, some folks in the UK used a reporter on the staff to "leak" propaganda.

Actually I used to think the DM was nothing more than a tabloid site. But in recent years their articles have been much more in depth than the journalists who write articles here.

I have seen them be spot on in many of the cases that have happened in the US. And they always seem to have many more personal photos than our news sites do.

So for now I am finding them very credible and its based on the many stories they have revealed in the last 2-3 years that turnout to be completely true.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, finances should be gone over very carefully.
I still am wondering if they kept a large amount of cash in the home.
Who bought the boat?
Who ran their credit card up for 2k?
Who have the hired to work for them?

Sheriff Sills said he was doing that right after Russ's torso was found. So I imagine after this long if something was there they would already know it.

IMO

 

[Advocate1]

I am still leaning towards a professional hit.

But it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. I know that surprises everyone....

And the more I read the further away I get from this being a hit.
However there is no question they wanted to send a message.

 

[Backwoods]

From The Eatonton Messenger:

Sheriff's deputies, FBI agents interview Great Waters residents

...Asked if the interviews would be helpful to his investigation, Sills said, "I know it will, already."...


...Residents had been asked to meet with the sheriff at 5 and were interviewed in a large tent on the Great Waters property and at the community clubhouse....


...The investigators used a form with 30 questions to talk with residents. It was developed by Sills, his staff, FBI agents and the FBI's behavioral unit from Quantico ...

more at: http://www.msgr.com/news/article_2a8f6f2a-def2-11e3-bd10-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[tomkat]

So they did pick up their Friday 4:30 pm mail. Or, should I say, someone took out their mail on Friday.

What if someone posed as a mailman and brought the mail to the door on Friday? They opened the door...

saturday april 19/20, how long was she here, daughter in town
sunday, april 20, easter, church with daughter and family
? Daughter and fam returned home
Monday APril 28th , cameras at gate stopped working
Thursday May 1, SD Bridge club
Friday May 2,Dermond newspaper was picked up = by whom
Friday May 2, SD did crossword puzzle of Fri paper
Saturday May 3, no mail picked up
no mention of stomach contents
Tuesday May 6, RD body found, no head
Thursday May 8, Real estate agent drownd close to 441 in lake sinclair/oconnee

Add / alter or delete

 

[Plumeria5]

Thank you!

Plumeria mentinoed a timeline, Ive had a full day today, been wondering all day what's ahppening here

Any timelines yet?

Ok, I'll start. Feel free to add links, times, correct something, or add another event.

Easter holiday Some of their children visited.
http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_4301bba8-d6dc-11e3-9a0f-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=jqm

May 1st Russell was seen at Publix Grocery Store. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/police-search-lake-conjunction-decapitation-possib/nfskw/
Shirley went to her bridge game. http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html

May 2nd Shirley worked her crossword puzzle from Friday's newspaper. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-1-million-home-revealed-dead-blow-head.html
4:30 pm mail was gone from mailbox
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/16/lake-oconee-body-putnam-county/9187743/

May 3rd mail still in mailbox and no show at 4 pm Derby party
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-1-million-home-revealed-dead-blow-head.html

 

[Flutterflies]

:welcome: Scoop7! :welcome: to Websleuths!

Thanks for posting your thoughts.

 

[momrids6]

They purposefully avoided the house proper, imo. It doesn't take a genius IQ to assume a million dollar home with elderly occupants would have a security system.

 

[tomkat]

and bamboo

Yes they certainly are. They are in every hardware store I have ever been in over in the gardening section.

And remember if it is someone in that neighborhood it seems to take an act of congress to cut down a tree bigger than 6 inch in diameter but I am sure they expect them all to keep the low growing brush cut back neat to the ground that come up around and in between the trees.

If not it can get to be quite a problem and we have scrub oaks in Georgia where I live, and I cant stand those scrappy ugly things so I whack them down with my machete before they can grow taller.:floorlaugh:

 

[tlcya]

heck I am in central IL and my husband and I use a well sharpened machete to knock back brush that tries to grow up along our fence lines.

I really am feeling the theory at the moment that the Dermond killings were not planned and were conducted to cover up something that was unexpected or that got out of hand.

My loose working #1 theory is that one of them saw or interrupted someone on or near their property up to no good. Maybe even Mrs. Dermond, at the rear of the house facing the lake, she is seen seeing something by the nogoodnicks. She is accosted and killed with some implement the perps (maybe two) have in the boat. She is pulled into the boat, perps thinking they will simply make their getaway and dump her in the lake as they make exit to wherever they entered the water.

Mr. D sees them or they spot Mr. D who has come out to locate his wife, perhaps calling her name. They give chase and assault and behead him during the adrenaline rush of the moment. Now they are really panicked. Mrs. D is already in the boat but Mr. D is not. His body is placed in the garage or was already there and his head was taken with for unknown reason, perhaps thinking on the fly this is what a random psycho scary killer would do after beheading someone.

My theory is mainly based on Mr. D being in the garage, his head being presumably somewhere in the lake or with the killers, Mrs. D being dead and in the lake. The blunt force trauma to at least one victim and the decapitation of another, the sheriff saying Mrs. D was in everyday clothing, the absolute lack of anything in MSM about anyone having any sort of grudge against them and because I personally find cartel or mob hit too big a stretch. I also find it too far for me personally to stretch to they had some enemy within the neighborhood or someone plotted to kill them to drive down property values or gain their property (residence).

This is just MOO based on the very confusing facts at hand as verified by LE

Mr D garage (apparel not covered in MSM and therefore not known)
Mr. D decapitated post mortem (COD unknown)
Mrs D lake (placed)
Mrs D COD BFT and clothed in daytime apparel
Both Dermonds apparently well liked/loved active in the community with many apparent friends who speak highly of them.

PURE SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

It is said this community is locked down pretty doggone tight with the gaurds and the gates and the rules etc. But the lake was a wide open weak spot. Which has me wondering.

If someone wanted somewhere to hide/secure very valuable illegal contraband, how hard would it be for those individuals to simply use the dock area near the shore to submerge that contraband beneath the surface of the lake and access it by boat at their convenience?

just a random thought that occurred on remembering the discussion of the nearby home that was on the market for a long period then off then back on again.

That is a long time for a place to be presumably vacant (if it is or was). I would imagine there would be upkeep continued - gardeners, housekeeping to keep things neat and proper for potential showings, realtors. That is a lot of people to know of a continued vacancy in a very exclusive and hard to access unmonitored location except by boat.

hmm, gonna follow this track for a while.

 

[Rhyolite]

Actually I used to think the DM was nothing more than a tabloid site. But in recent years their articles have been much more in depth than the journalists who write articles here.

I have seen them be spot on in many of the cases that have happened in the US. And they always seem to have many more personal photos than our news sites do.

So for now I am finding them very credible and its based on the many stories they have revealed in the last 2-3 years that turnout to be completely true.

IMO

Their coverage of MH370 flight crew was criminal. I have no doubt they have improved their ability to use technology to investigate articles, rather than to rely on paid off stringers to fill their space, but they are unethical.

 

[Backwoods]

I really am feeling the theory at the moment that the Dermond killings were not planned and were conducted to cover up something that was unexpected or that got out of hand.

<respectfully snipped>

I am leaning heavily in this direction myself at the moment. That at least the first killing was not planned.

 

[Foxfire]

He is utilizing the GBI crime labs and has involved the FBI who offered the reward for Shirley. In a crime of this nature with the subtle markings of organized crime I can completely understand the Sheriff bypassing GBI and working with the Feds.

I honor and respect your opinion Advocate1, but the reason Sheriff Howard Sills hasn't invited in the GBI is due to his ego, imo.. Why else would you squander a very valuable and free investigative resource? A very valuable investigative resource was squandered in the Adam Walsh investigation. That is why it went cold for two and a half decades. Once the neglected resource was given the file to re-investigate. The case was finally resolved..

Imo, this crime has absolutely no signs/markings/indications of organized crime, imo. A professional would have made a clean hit on both victims at the same location.
There was an obvious motive Mrs. D was taken to another location, imo.
There will be a direct or indirect meth connection, imo..