GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[epiphany]

Per WSB:

Sills tells WSB that investigators are looking at the criminal background of every person who lives in Great Waters. Sills believes someone took the head to hide evidence. Sills says no direct person of interest or suspect at this point. More to come from the 90 minute interview with Sheriff Sills at 6 PM on WSB.

My summary. Not verbatim.

Respectfully BBM

If Sills believes Mr. Dermond's head was taken to hide evidence, then is that why the home was found to be so immaculate, spotless?

At ages 87 and 88, I don't believe the Dermonds spent their days cleaning the inside of their large home no matter how fastidious they might have been.

Did the perp super-clean and sanitize the home itself to hide evidence prior to leaving with Mrs. Dermond's body?

Also, I wonder what the toxicology reports will be revealed...perhaps, something unexpected will show up.

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/07/3085920/putnam-mans-death-wifes-disappearance.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

“...Everything is immaculate,” he [Sills] said. “This is the cleanest house I’ve ever been in.”

 

[scubadvr99]

Why the perp tried to hide Mrs. Dermond body, yet left her husband's headless corpse in a full view?

I have always felt that they were killed at the same time. Even though the surface temp is starting to become warmer, the deeper water that she was found in, would delay her surfacing. It takes longer for someone to decompose and produce the gases that cause them to surface in cooler water.

She was probably the lighter of the two and was carried to the boat (along with the head) to be placed in the lake. I believed that their plan was to come back for Mr. D, but something or someone spooked them and they couldn't come back for him.

All MOO :seeya:

 

[1&2&3]

My mind is running overtime regarding this meeting! What do you bet that there was a marked or unmarked car recording every car that left GW during a certain timeframe before the meeting and during the meeting?

 

[mck16]

Respectfully BBM

If Sills believes Mr. Dermond's head was taken to hide evidence, then is that why the home was found to be so immaculate, spotless?

At ages 87 and 88, I don't believe the Dermonds spent their days cleaning the inside of their large home no matter how fastidious they might have been.

Did the perp super-clean and sanitize the home itself to hide evidence prior to leaving with Mrs. Dermond's body?

Also, I wonder what the toxicology reports will show...perhaps, something will show up.

Maybe she had a housekeeper or a maid to clean her house. And I doubt just two of them could mess it up too much. jmo

 

[lakeoconee]

What is the separation of RP and Great Waters? Are they connected in any way? ty

Great Waters, Reynolds Plantation and Reynolds Landing are sister properties now owned by Met Life. Reynolds Plantation proper is on the Greene County side of the lake. Great Waters is on the Putnam County side of the lake, directly across from Reynolds Plantation, It's much smaller in size than Reynolds Plantation. Reynolds Landing (formerly Port Armor) is on the Greene County side of the lake, but on the other side of GA 44.

The amenities are shared among the three subdivisions and also the vehicle decals are the same for all three.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, the water temp has been lower than average/normal and probably slowed down the decomp gases a little, she was either tethered or snagged elsewhere for awhile then snagged on that tree when the gases did cause her rise from the bottom of the lake, somebody wuold have seen her if she'd been STRUNG UP on that tree trunk

ANother question is:

Do we think they would drive around for a week in or out of the lake with her live or dead obdy and then have to bring her back to dump her in the lake fi they ever even exited the lake

jmo

I think she may have risen to the surface at least a couple of days before being found if not more. It seems from the coroner's statement Shirley was in a very bad state of decomposition.

When submerged under water the decomp rate is vastly slowed especially in 48 feet of water, but once the gases start forming enough to rise the body to the surface then the body begins to rapidly decompose once it hits the air and warm surface temps.

Since Sills is adamant that she was placed there I believe she was weighted down in the deep part of the lake there in the close proximity of where she was finally seen. The only way he can know that she was 'placed' there is her body when found had to have some kind of tether around her body.

It could have been an anchor or a concrete block tied off with some type of cord or rope. If they have recovered the tethering devise then even the knot he made may tell them something about him especially if it is a unique kind of knot. The knot he tied off at the end of the weight could have come unwound because it stretched because it was in water. I think they were not only looking for Russ' head after Shirley was found but also may have been looking for the anchor the murderer used to weigh Shirley down.

I remember a case long ago where a murder victim was put in a lake weighted down by an old car transmission. When the decomp gases made her rise to the top she broke free of the transmission she had been weighted down with. She still had the rope affixed to her body though and they retrieved the transmission he used to weigh her down but it wasn't in this deep of water I don't think.

 

[gngr~snap]

I have always felt that they were killed at the same time. Even though the surface temp is starting to become warmer, the deeper water that she was found in, would delay her surfacing. It takes longer for someone to decompose and produce the gases that cause them to surface in cooler water.

She was probably the lighter of the two and was carried to the boat (along with the head) to be placed in the lake. I believed that their plan was to come back for Mr. D, but something or someone spooked them and they couldn't come back for him.

All MOO :seeya:

I can't figure out how to convert it to US measurements but, I read that water temps drop at least 1° celcius for every meter deeper the water gets.

http://www.watercenter.org/physical...ater-temperature/temperature-ranges-in-lakes/

Does that sound about right?

I know even in July at the lake when we jump in it starts getting obviously cooler at about 8-9 feet under.

So if surface temp was around 70° and she was in 46 ft of water rough calculation is temp at the bottom was around 45°?

I am in trouble if the US ever converts!
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html
"Dermond’s body was found in 46 feet of water"

***Edited for depth and temperature of water****
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Respectfully BBM

If Sills believes Mr. Dermond's head was taken to hide evidence, then is that why the home was found to be so immaculate, spotless?

At ages 87 and 88, I don't believe the Dermonds spent their days cleaning the inside of their large home no matter how fastidious they might have been.

Did the perp super-clean and sanitize the home itself to hide evidence prior to leaving with Mrs. Dermond's body?

Also, I wonder what the toxicology reports will be revealed...perhaps, something unexpected will show up.

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/07/3085920/putnam-mans-death-wifes-disappearance.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

“...Everything is immaculate,” he [Sills] said. “This is the cleanest house I’ve ever been in.”

I don't believe the Dermond home is the original murder crime scene. The murderer never entered the inside of their home. I think he only entered far enough to drag the torso a short ways into their garage. With him not entering the home means to me he knows he could leave something of himself inside their home even if it was fibers or his hair and he knows that could link him back to the Dermonds personally.

The murder scene has not been located as of yet. IMO.

I have always felt both Russ and Shirley were killed within a very short time of each other.

The murderer brought the torso to the garage after murdering and decapitating RD. That is why there isn't any blood spatter and not enough blood showing he was murdered in the garage.

My grandmother was still keeping her own huge house up at the age of 95. Her home was always immaculate. They both could have been very neat by nature. There was only two of them just like my hubby and I and there really isn't that much to clean up on a daily basis. We clean as we go and are both neat freaks. LOL

IMO

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

So, short answer, anybody who had access to a vehicle with a valid decal would n't raise any suspicion at the gate. The lake has always been impossible to patrol.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Lakeoconee --- can you pls tell us more about this decal. Is it placed on the dash? stuck to the windshield? hung from the rearview mirror? Is it an actual "sticky" sticker? What I'm wondering is........how easy (or difficult) would it be for someone to get ahold of another person's decal and just transfer it into their vehicle.

Thanks!

 

[lakeoconee]

Lakeoconee --- can you pls tell us more about this decal. Is it placed on the dash? stuck to the windshield? hung from the rearview mirror? Is it an actual "sticky" sticker? What I'm wondering is........how easy (or difficult) would it be for someone to get ahold of another person's decal and just transfer it into their vehicle.

Thanks!

It's stuck to the windshield. Can't remove it without destroying it. Residents are urged to remove the decals when they sell their cars.

 

[gngr~snap]

Here is a report of water temperatures.
It looks like May 2nd it would have been in the high 60's to low 70's.

So at 40 something feet, if she ever got that deep would have been cold.
IMO it might have slowed her resurfacing. There really are several things that can speed it up or slow It down.

We have had weird weather for May in Georgia IMO.
Some really cold nights!
http://www.fishin.com/forums2/content.php/335-georgia-lake-oconee-fishing-report-all
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[Advocate1]

I know that we've probably already hashed this into the ground, but I couldn't stop thinking about this aspect of the case last night - I think it's a very important clue as to whether or not SD was placed in a way to be found, or placed to stay underwater and hopefully never be located... jmo





So after it's been percolating through my brain overnight, and with a couple of new posts about the placement, along with how upset and disturbed the fishermen were - I remembered seeing this and started looking for the video that Carolinapeach had posted earlier - I wanted to see what you all thought about it...

In one of the interviews with the fishermen, one of them refers to seeing something that they describe as "maybe a buoy" but then as they got closer, realized it wasn't and called 911... Take a look at this still image that I pulled from the WSB video where Elliot says this is the location where she was found - see the buoy? It's sitting upright and tall in the water, right? If she was laying down in the water and just floating, would they have said they thought it was a buoy?? I'm sorry this is so graphic and gruesome, but I'm now beginning to think she WAS tied to one of these trees and was placed upright so that she would definitely be FOUND:



This is all JMO.

Unfortunately I believe you are right and also remember the Sheriff said that the disposal of her body was "at least thought through."
http://m.msgr.com/mobile/news/article_2a8f6f2a-def2-11e3-bd10-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[tomkat]

The average for a body to surface is 10 days. Give or take a few days when you factor in water temps and obstacles in the water.

I remember that a saturday was mentioned initially, I wondered if it was the saturday before she was found or the saturday the day after she was found, so it was right on the money, becuase it was fri the 2nd week after RD death

 

[Plumeria5]

I know that we've probably already hashed this into the ground, but I couldn't stop thinking about this aspect of the case last night - I think it's a very important clue as to whether or not SD was placed in a way to be found, or placed to stay underwater and hopefully never be located... jmo





So after it's been percolating through my brain overnight, and with a couple of new posts about the placement, along with how upset and disturbed the fishermen were - I remembered seeing this and started looking for the video that Carolinapeach had posted earlier - I wanted to see what you all thought about it...

In one of the interviews with the fishermen, one of them refers to seeing something that they describe as "maybe a buoy" but then as they got closer, realized it wasn't and called 911... Take a look at this still image that I pulled from the WSB video where Elliot says this is the location where she was found - see the buoy? It's sitting upright and tall in the water, right? If she was laying down in the water and just floating, would they have said they thought it was a buoy?? I'm sorry this is so graphic and gruesome, but I'm now beginning to think she WAS tied to one of these trees and was placed upright so that she would definitely be FOUND:



This is all JMO.

Didn't the fisherman who found her say she was face down?

 

[atthelake]

You're welcome! Im sorry I just seen this I am trying to figure out how to keep up with this thread from my phone!

<snipped>



( .

Tapatalk app for your phone is a must must must to follow WS on your phone

Moo <---my own opinion
HTH<---hope that helps

 

[Zuri]

What exactly did the sheriff mean when he said the Dermonds were targeted? Was it because of the location of their home? Their age? Or something else?

 

[Cardinal47]

CLosest public ramp operated by Georgia Power is Long Shoals boat landing. Private ramps in both Reynolds and Great Waters closer. Another commercial marina landing about a mile up lake (north). Opposite direction from where SD's body recovered.

Hello and welcome to WS. A local can surely clear up things we are discussing that end up not amounting to a hill of beans...lol

I am wondering if there are any Security Camera's at the boat landings and private ramps?

I am also wondering if people along the river have Security Cameras on their own piers since many have very nice boats, wave runners and other items of value.

Thanks for your imput!

 

[tomkat]

It has nothing to do with giving the murderer credit for anything. But to ignore what his intelligence level may be is nonsense. I have no doubt the FBI profilers are also assessing what they believe his IQ could possibly be. The FBI will ignore nothing no matter if they think his intelligence level is beyond normal intelligence. That will be taken into consideration when trying to come up with a profile. Every facet about what he may be is important to the investigation and solving the case.

You seem to think just because he may be intelligent that means I am praising him somehow. Really? Seriously? Now that is downright ridiculous. FGS! Ted Bundy was also a very intelligent sadistic murderer and so many others who commit crimes like this. Not every murder that is committed is done by those with average or low IQs.

Of course he is a coward. I never said he wasn't.

Lucky how? He seems to have been very thorough in the details of his crimes. Murder cases go unsolved all the time. Around 65% of homicides are solved. Are some of them smart, lucky or stupid? I imagine it runs the gambit.

The FBI must consider everything to come up with as complete of a profile as they can so they will know the kind of individual they are possibly dealing with. I think they already know he is above normal intelligence. I think the garage scene and the disposal scene gives them a glimpse into the intelligence or lack of for the suspect.

The assessment of intelligence can also lead them to someone who may be a professional with college degrees. So I have no clue why you expect me to disregard that he may be very smart since the FBI will not and never do when they are establishing a profile of a murderer.

Maybe thought "smart" sounded to much like a compliment to the Killer, dont' think it was personal, JMO

Alot of people are smart, everyone makes mistakes, some are just crazy

 

[Carolinapeach]

Raw video of WSB's interview with Sheriff Sills on their facebook page. wsbtv

Or link:
http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/raw-putnam-county-sheriff-on-reynolds-plantation/vCbg7P/

 

[Advocate1]

Why the perp tried to hide Mrs. Dermond body, yet left her husband's headless corpse in a full view?

If she was tied to the tree in any way they knew she would eventually surface and be found. So the "hiding" part would only be only temporary. It seems that the actual staging of the bodies is more significant then the killing itself. These people were targeted for a reason but this went beyond just killing them. There is a very sadistic evil undertone to this crime and frankly it is disturbing as hell to me. That says a lot cause I'm not easily disturbed by crimes.