GA - Apalachee High School shooting, 4 dead, 9 injured, Winder, Barrow County - 04 September 2024 *father and son arrested*

[Lilibet]

Are the family statements in MSM on the father's side or the mother's side? It hasn't been clear to me. Paternal family members of the shooter or maternal family members of the shooter? Or both?

ETA If its the maternal family members of the shooter, we may be seeing some bias in their remarks. From what we know of both parents at this point, there is certainly enough blame to go around.

A few posts previously the maternal grandfather speaks out.

 

[Izzylizzy]

School shooter dad 'kicked in the door' to retrieve guns but left dogs

A former landlord has criticized Colin and Marcee Gray, the parents of accused Georgia school shooter Colt Gray, describing them as irresponsible and neglectful.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A former landlord to the parents of accused Georgia school shooter, Colt Gray, has portrayed the family as both cold hearted and callous.

The man, who spoke on condition of anonymity, described how Colin, 54, and Marcee Gray, 43, were allegedly chaotic tenants to deal with and he ultimately had them evicted.

Even more shockingly, he said, when the now estranged couple fell behind on their rent and were forced from their rental home in 2020, they decided to leave their pets behind, only returning to retrieve their guns - and allegedly kicking down the front door as they did so.

This is not the same landlord who thought dad was trying to be a standup guy while mom was leaving the kids locked out in cold weather and passed out in her car while it was still running.

Reading this from the ex-landlord and thinking about the 3 children was making me nauseous.

"Meanwhile, Mom, Marcee Gray, is said to be cooperating with investigators, but has not charged with any crime".

 

[m00c0w]

Thanks for that info and it doesn't sound like rocket-science to track an account holder.

In one article I read LE said they couldn't be sure whose IP it was and that the user had a Russian language name which is the same name in English as an infamous school shooter but they didn't name the name.

Another article said that the account was traced to CG, so???

I think the 2023 investigation may be coming back to bite them, at least the local LE.

IIRC: There's been 2 other school shootings where the FBI had been called to report concerning behaviors , online a and off and they dropped the ball and the assumed 2 suspects went on to carry out shootings

The school shooter referenced was Adam Lanza.

From what I could piece together, they traced the email address associated with the account to a previous address of CG's and passed the information along to the local sheriff's office, who did the ultimate interviews. The IP addresses on the account seemed to bounce around Georgia and the United States. CG claimed he was being hacked, didn't speak Russian, didn't use Discord anymore because he got hacked so much. His dad backed him up, and said that they both take this sort of thing seriously, they have frank talks about firearms and how to handle them, how dangerous they are... and the local LE basically took them at their word and urged the father to make sure CG was staying out of trouble.

The father then bought CG an AR-15 about seven months later as a Christmas present.

I don't think local LE had very much to go on, and there didn't seem to be enough probable cause to really go further with the investigation. Even if red flag laws were in place, for instance, I'm not sure the facts here would have met the threshold for confiscation because LE couldn't show that CG was actually the one that made the threats.

JMO

 

[Breezie]

Students recall the moment GA school shooter pulled gun out of his bag

Traumatized classmates of alleged school shooter Colt Gray, 14, say they came within moments of death as they almost opened the door to him before spotting him brandishing an AR-15.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Classmate Bri Jones, 14, said Gray quietly left the room and she almost let him back inside before noticing he was brandishing an AR-style weapon.

'As I was looking at the door, he was pulling his gun out, and then I froze up, like I froze up and I said "no" to myself,' Jones told CNN. 'He would have got every single one of us in that class.'

Jones said she almost opened the door, but stopped herself thanks to a tip from her mother.

'I always look out the door before I open it… it's a habit my mom taught me,' she said.

Although she saw the gun, Jones said her teacher urged her to open the door 'because she didn’t know he had a gun because she was at her desk.'

'She was going to walk over there, open it, and I was like, "no, he has a gun,"' Jones said.

Students said when Gray failed to enter his own classroom, he opened fire into the one next door as their door was open.

At that moment, teacher Richard Aspinwall was shot dead in front of his horrified class, which student Malaysia Mitchell said left her traumatized.

'We had to drag our teacher's body fully into the classroom,' she told CNN. 'We heard him take his last breath.'

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The school shooter referenced was Adam Lanza.

From what I could piece together, they traced the email address associated with the account to a previous address of CG's and passed the information along to the local sheriff's office, who did the ultimate interviews. The IP addresses on the account seemed to bounce around Georgia and the United States. CG claimed he was being hacked, didn't speak Russian, didn't use Discord anymore because he got hacked so much. His dad backed him up, and said that they both take this sort of thing seriously, they have frank talks about firearms and how to handle them, how dangerous they are... and the local LE basically took them at their word and urged the father to make sure CG was staying out of trouble.

The father then bought CG an AR-15 about seven months later as a Christmas present.

I don't think local LE had very much to go on, and there didn't seem to be enough probable cause to really go further with the investigation. Even if red flag laws were in place, for instance, I'm not sure the facts here would have met the threshold for confiscation because LE couldn't show that CG was actually the one that made the threats.

JMO

Do you think the FBI could have helped pinpoint the author of those threats, had local LE or GBI reached out? I was thinking about this today. I do think that the Dad and LE believed what he told them. What trouble has he been in at school before this shooting? Has that been published yet? Any contact with LE other than that interview about the online threats?

 

[airportwoman]

Reading this from the ex-landlord and thinking about the 3 children was making me nauseous.

"Meanwhile, Mom, Marcee Gray, is said to be cooperating with investigators, but has not charged with any crime".

That picture of the "father" standing by the hay bale with two little boys looks so normal. We know now that it wasn't.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

In my opinion his father is guilty of gross negligence, but not murder. The courts may find otherwise, like I said, that's my opinion. If this young man had taken a butcher knife to school and stabbed to death 4 students, would we be having the same discussion relative to the father? So many questions arise for me, I'm a thinker

If he had previously threatened to stab people and then later did so with a butcher knife kept in the home, yes, I would still hold the parents responsible. Why wouldn't they be? They ignored a clear threat from their minor child and provided the weapon. It doesn't really matter to me what kind of weapon it is.

If I did that as a parent, I would blame myself and expect to be charged and blamed. Parents all know how immature and impulsive children and teens can be. You can't have the very weapon they threatened to use in the home and then play innocent if they use it.

 

[nightowl1975]

Gave his son a school shooter AR 15 after the FBI investigated and the local sheriffs contacted him about school shooting threats made by his son.

Absolutely. This case is even more egregious than the Crumbley’s IMO, at least based on the initial evidence presented to the media.

 

[nightowl1975]

If he had previously threatened to stab people and then later did so with a butcher knife kept in the home, yes, I would still hold the parents responsible. Why wouldn't they be? They ignored a clear threat from their minor child and provided the weapon. It doesn't really matter to me what kind of weapon it is.

If I did that as a parent, I would blame myself and expect to be charged and blamed. Parents all know how immature and impulsive children and teens can be. You can't have the very weapon they threatened to use in the home and then play innocent if they use it.

How far do we take this? Baseball bats, candlesticks, lamps, etc could all be used to whack someone in the head. Do we expect parents to rid their homes of all objects that could be used to hurt someone? That’s not really possible IMO.

Guns, however, are different. They absolutely could be locked away safely if in a home that requires firearms (i.e. parent is LEO). There’s no excuse for allowing access to firearms to a child that’s threatened to shoot people.

I suspect the father is going to (perhaps legitimately) say he believed his son when his son was questioned by the FBI and denied the allegations of making online threats. The FBI didn’t proceed with anything beyond questioning which tells us there was a lack of direct evidence. So it’s at least theoretically possible that the dad believed his son didn’t make the threats.

Will that be sufficient to get him off on all of the charges he’s facing as the parent? I sincerely doubt it. The public is tired of school shootings. No one thing is going to stop them from happening, but holding parents accountable as well when appropriate might help reduce the risk of a kid like this having access to guns from a parent going forward.

It's much like holding parents responsible for serving underage kids alcohol if they then go on to drive drunk and hurt someone. Does it stop all parents from letting their kids drink? Absolutely not. Does it stop some? I’d bet on it.

At this point, we need to do all of the things we can to prevent more shootings, and for shooting that do occur, to prevent as many deaths as possible. We’ll never get it to zero, but reducing risk and death is certainly better than nothing.

 

[nightowl1975]

The first question doesn’t need to be how did the shooter get a gun, or what was the shooter’s mental state, but HOW DID THE SHOOTER GET IT INTO SCHOOL AND HOW CAN WE STOP IT.

This is an easy one to answer. Anyone could get a gun into a school any day of the week. We don’t like that fact, but it’s a fact. Unless every single entrance is equipped with metal detectors, anyone could put a handgun in a backpack or fanny pack or jacket pocket, etc. An AR can be broken down and put into a duffle bag situation with the same results. Take it to the bathroom, assemble, and go.

 

[nightowl1975]

What we could control, right now, fairly easily, is the flow of weaponry in to the building.

Disagree it could be done “fairly easily”. There are so, so many more schools than there are courthouses or airports. Each major city has one, maybe two, airports. Most towns across America don’t have an airport to secure at all and one or two courthouses. That’s entirely different than the sheer volume of schools across the country.

Even if we budgeted (from our already gazillion dollar deficit budget) for mass production and installation of metal detectors at every single entrance of every single school, who’s going to man these entrances? We already have massive shortages of LEOs across the country. The cost of implementing this would be astronomical. I’m not saying it’s not worth it. But I am asking where the money is going to come from. People want tax cuts, not increases.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1832236922225229830

 

[statt#1]

Unpopular POV. I feel bad for this kid. I wish that when FBI had talked to him, that he had been referred for intensive treatment, maybe assessment on danger to himself and others. Some sort of intervention.

I think someone dropped the ball here, and this kid could have been helped. Now, he is going to go to prison for life, and looking at him, it won't be a good place. Georgia prison. Bad news for him.

I totally agree here.....someone did drop the ball. Numerous people dropped the ball. FBI, School, Parents, etc. etc. This is the case in most, if not ALL of these murders in public schools. These kids have histories long before the violent event.

This is why the immediate action at a school should be to put in place methods to prevent firearm entry to the building.

 

[statt#1]

Disagree it could be done “fairly easily”. There are so, so many more schools than there are courthouses or airports. Each major city has one, maybe two, airports. Most towns across America don’t have an airport to secure at all and one or two courthouses. That’s entirely different than the sheer volume of schools across the country.

Even if we budgeted (from our already gazillion dollar deficit budget) for mass production and installation of metal detectors at every single entrance of every single school, who’s going to man these entrances? We already have massive shortages of LEOs across the country. The cost of implementing this would be astronomical. I’m not saying it’s not worth it. But I am asking where the money is going to come from. People want tax cuts, not increases.

I've heard the financial argument time and again over the years. The hard question is this, would the lives of these 4 deceased been worth a try? Would their lives have been worth the cost investment now?

I'm also familiar with public school budgeting, and where the majority of the money goes, how it's spent, what can be spent here for capital improvements, what can be spent over there, etc. etc. In a large amount of public schools, armed resource officers already are placed, and/or the schools have agreements with local police, local police spend time in the building, some more than others, and even participate in lockdown drill scenarios. This isn't enough though, as we've just seen.

I think we as a society might wish to prioritize what's important....is it a new football field?, or a new track?, or construct a 15 million dollar wing?, or give pay raises to all faculty, or install a detection system to prevent firearms from entering the building?

This is a wee peek at Pennsylvania's public school system. It gives a some insight in to the scope of the operations, mandates, (some funded, some not), legal requirements, etc. etc. The argument that funding could not be made available for firearms detection systems in public schools simply doesn't hold weight in my humblest of opinions.

Purdon's Statutes

 

[statt#1]

If a child/teen doesn't want to talk , well they won't and that wasn't what my reply was about.
You said that parents can refuse taking their child to a therapist.

The link I posted shows what the parent/child's rights are when it comes to therapy and states that even though parents have the right to refuse therapy for their child the courts can intervene and mandate it.

Edit to add, yes, the courts can intervene all they wish, and C&Y can put their foot on the situation, and Juvenile Probation, etc. I've seen it all. I was boots on the ground, and I guarantee a kid, family, that doesn't want to participate in counseling, won't.

I was the SAP team coordinator in our school. Here's a link, the mandate for SAP teams in Pennsylvania, and all requirements, are included here.

I've accessed this quote from the site....you can find it under frequently asked questions, it's very pertinent to this case, as it shows, at least in Pennsylvania, what is required of a public school in terms of offering services to students. Georgia differs I am sure, but similar measures are surely in place.

"24. Is written parental consent required for SAP? Yes. The Protection of Pupil Rights Amendment (PPRA) requires that the student's and parent/guardian's rights be recognized and respected, especially in instances of surveys, analysis, or evaluations. PPRA requires written parent/guardian permission when interviewing students regarding “...mental or psychological problems of the student or the student’s family; sex behavior or attitudes; illegal, anti-social, self-incriminating, or demeaning behavior.”

Home

Forum Guide to Protecting the Privacy of Student Information: State and Local Education Agencies - Exhibit 22: Fact Sheet: Protection of Pupil Rights Amendment

Forum Guide to Protecting the Privacy of Student Information: State and Local Education Agencies

nces.ed.gov

And this is ACT 44, focused on school safety and security...

2018 Act 44

www.legis.state.pa.us

So, for me, the argument that financial restraints are the reason schools do not have security measures in place to prevent firearms entry to a public school building doesn't hold weight.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Parental Responsibility Laws and Fines - Joel Baskin

Parental responsibility refers to the liability for both the criminal and civil acts committed by their child under 18 years of age with fees up to $10,000.

joelbaskin.com

Seeing these Georgia Parental Responsibility Laws in print is thought provoking.
I am curious about how many states have clear parental responsibility laws.
I can see states making these laws much stronger than they are at this point in time.
It is one approach for this multi-spoked problem.

Kindof hard to lump spray painting a wall and murdering children together....
but the overall point is well taken.

 

[Lusitana]

I don't think this should be hard to understand. He gave his son a gun that was used to kill 4 people. He is the adult, he is responsible for his child and he gave him the gun when he admittedly knew his son was going through a rough time mental health wise. Plus, he had received a visit from the FBI regarding his son possibly making threats about shooting up a school. He IS responsible for what happened and deserves to have been arrested.

Plus, this kid is a known absentee from school, has moved houses and schools several times, he started at this school a month later than the rest of the students. Colt's mother and father are very clearly not good parents and have obviously contributed to what happened, they didn't care about him and did nothing to help.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It's a slippery slope my friend, sounds good when we're hyped up, charge dad with murder. What if it were a knife from the kitchen drawer? Is that the next step? What if your 16 year old is drinking and kills a family of 4 one night, in YOUR car? After drinking YOUR beer? Is the parent then charged with vehicular homicide? I could think of dozens of what if's. I would think a precedent would be set in a case such as this, and it would open the door for all sorts of legal issues, and lawsuits, where a minor commits some crime, and the parent is charged. Scary stuff. It's a great discussion Thanks!

No question, it is a slippery slope.
But that is why little has been done.
Turn around, and each "possible" legal action is banging into another legal protection.

But Crumbly opened a pretty big door. So it is worth all the discussion going forward.... as hard as it is.

 

[kaen]

"Brown, who lives in Central Florida, declined to elaborate on the teen’s mental health challenges but said she tried from afar to get him help. In text messages to a relative, she voiced concern last month that her nephew had access to a gun, according to screenshots she provided to The Post; last week, she wrote that her mother — the suspect’s grandmother — had gone to see a counselor at his school to request help, the screenshots show.

He “starts with the therapist tomorrow,” his grandmother wrote in a text message one week before he opened fire on fellow students....

Brown, Gray’s aunt, said that in January — amid this tumultuous period — she helped her nephew enroll at Haymon-Morris Middle School in Barrow County so he could finish eighth grade following a period of absenteeism.

She said she would also continue to support her nephew. Without excusing his actions, Brown said he was still “just a baby” who was never given the mental health support he needed and repeatedly requested." https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ooter-georgia-school-shooting-apalachee-high/

Sounds like there will be a mental health decline picture that will get filled in. It appears that some in the family knew and there was communication with the killer. I am fairly certain dad also knew. Even if the dad hated the mom's family, if his son was asking distant relatives for help, there must have been behaviors that he was exhibiting at home. JMHO.

This article is different than some articles that stated his first full day was the day of the shooting. The contact with LE in 2023 is not the only inkling that this kid needed help. It appears that someone at a school-- a counselor-- may have been contacted given the grandmother's reported texts.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Humbly contributing a thought. My husband is an elementary public school teacher. The first day of school was yesterday. A kindergartener was dropped off with a milk bottle, wearing a diaper.

The full situation has since revealed more facts and it involves a lot, everything you might imagine and probably more, including bad decisions, good intentions, mental health issues, vulnerability, all the things. It has abruptly reminded me that sometimes people actually do the best they can with what they have, and they’re awful at maximizing what they have, and they make non-sensical decisions even as non-evil people.American society winds up retroactively trying to fix that. Here we are.

Not positing this as an excuse. Positing it as a reality. There have been cases in the past where a mass shooter had a family that had plenty of capability to intervene earlier and opted not to because they were in deep denial (cases in point: Lanza, Gendron). There are also cases in the past where a family was crashed out and on fumes with addiction, socioeconomics and other self-imposed factors - where there was just nothing there. This in MOO: is the latter. MOO: I look at Colin Gray and I don’t necessarily see an evil person. I see a man who was not a great husband, not a great father, accused domestic abuser, made disgusting mistakes, and who crashed out and radically missed the obvious threat that was in front of his face, who didn’t want to see it. He might be a total expletive. I just see a catastrophically flawed person who didn’t know what to do and dug deeper and it got worse.

I hope, if nothing else, that there will be the redemption of one hapless dad in this country with a son who is threatening on Discord who looks at this case and says “I need to get more help.” That would be the victory we will never even know about because it prevented the thing that never happened.

Appreciate your post. I think we are trying to see a 360 degree picture... but many degrees are missing. But I felt some of those feelings regarding Colin. I wonder if he was really trying to help Colt. I wonder if the courts had anything to do with Colt staying with Colin in the divorce??

We haven't heard anything about heavy drug abuse with Colin, so how much of his behavior was ever protecting those kids against their mother's behavior.

I just think this case feels quite pivotal. ( I know I could easily be kidding myself)
BUT the younger these shooters get.... maybe there is much more that can be done, should be done 'to save them" in that 10-14 age time frame.

I just think that is how I feel, when looking at piks of Colt....
something could have been done to save him. But wasn't.

oh yeah... any repercussions for the kindergartner...???
as usual, just worry about what the older kids might have said or done