GA - Apalachee High School shooting, 4 dead, 9 injured, Winder, Barrow County - 04 September 2024 *father and son arrested*

[nhmemorymaker]

maybe a smidge off topic but Discord is about as deep web as Gmail is, honestly. It's probably the 'social media' I use the most, so feel free to ask me any questions about how it works!

thanks....

 

[kaen]

Are the family statements in MSM on the father's side or the mother's side? It hasn't been clear to me. Paternal family members of the shooter or maternal family members of the shooter? Or both?

ETA If its the maternal family members of the shooter, we may be seeing some bias in their remarks. From what we know of both parents at this point, there is certainly enough blame to go around.

Dad, in this case, described bullying. Enough bullying that the LE who interviewed him encouraged him to keep Colt home until things resolve. The maternal side of the family seems aware enough that they are contacting counselors more recently. This young man was not attending school on the regular. One of their previous neighbors in an article linked upthread said their child was in a previous school with Colt and he was bullied. Lots of data points that this dad knew his kid was in need of something. He changed counties and schools. It is true that lots of people might drag their heels if a child is exhibiting mental health issues. This young man's family history and child services history indicate that he was at great risk.

The dad had been trying to build his confidence with sports or hunting. He knew this kid was suffering. Sure, do those things. Some people distrust the system or distrust mental health services. But, he knew enough to build his kid's confidence. He should have known after the LE visit that the guns needed to be locked up to keep his kid safe from harming himself or others.

With all of that, just with this limited knowledge of the kid's day to day, a responsible adult should have locked those guns away. He might not have taken the guns out of the house but given his son's history, the need to change schools due to bullying, and described state by the family, his son might have committed suicide or homicide. If as a parent he can not make that kind of link as to what is appropriate in his home, he deserves to be charged. JMHO.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That’s a beautiful, compassionate and thought-provoking post @caradana. I read it to my husband, a retired elementary school teacher. He saw so many troubled kids with troubled and/or uninvolved parents in his career. One ended up a drug-addicted murderer as an adult and has a thread here.

I don’t know what should be done with Colin Gray. While he may well be “catastrophically flawed” does that excuse his negligence? I don’t know. But I do know that I don’t want to have a knee-jerk reaction. And like you, I hope this makes another messed up parent get help.

JMO

I felt the same about @Cardona 's post. And yours. I feel the underlying issue that so many of us have, at this point, is that something could have been done.
But the increasing knowledge of Colin's behaviour (ex landlord) is painting such a miserable picture.

 

[Elley Mae]

The fact that the father had the kids is telling, hard to take kids from mom.
Nothing about colt having a cell phone, wonder how family kept in contact with him to know his struggles. Lot’s of kids are picked on, myself included when I was young. Did he dye his hair to change his appearance, wanted to look different from the year before?
Iirc high schools around here in md, have partial days for 9th graders on first day to familiarize themselves with the layout of the building.
Was something said to him or about him in class before he left and returned? How long had passed between him leaving and returning with gun?
How far did he live from school?

Jmo

 

[DS2021]

The fact that the father had the kids is telling, hard to take kids from mom.

He had colt, mom had the other 2. Im unsure if she still does

 

[Elley Mae]

He says Colt’s parents have struggled with personal and marital problems, which has caused Colt and his two siblings to shift between households. He says the children have been staying with Colin in Barrow County since last year.

Alleged Apalachee High shooter's grandfather shares more insight into the Gray family dynamic

Colt Gray and his father, Colin, have been charged in the shooting death of two students, two teachers at Apalachee High School.

www.khou.com

Polhamus said he and his wife are trying to get the younger children to stay with their mother, Marcee, and the rest of their family in Fitzgerald.

 

[Leopard]

Looking back as a teen, I changed my hair up frequently for multiple reasons. The first was purely experimentation, what attracted what types of attention, what I personally felt comfortable in, what looked good on me. The other reason was to distance myself from my family/culture through appearance and be my own individual person. Then there was also the added joys of startling my conservative family members when showing up to a function with a new look. Unless CG states specifically that his hair was changed to emulate someone or to create a specific look, I think we're reading too much into a 14yo's appearance.

 

[DS2021]

He says Colt’s parents have struggled with personal and marital problems, which has caused Colt and his two siblings to shift between households. He says the children have been staying with Colin in Barrow County since last year.

Alleged Apalachee High shooter's grandfather shares more insight into the Gray family dynamic

Colt Gray and his father, Colin, have been charged in the shooting death of two students, two teachers at Apalachee High School.

www.khou.com

Polhamus said he and his wife are trying to get the younger children to stay with their mother, Marcee, and the rest of their family in Fitzgerald.

Oh ok thank you for correcting me

 

[Breezie]

Disturbing Facebook posts of Georgia school shooter Colt Gray's mom

The mother of Georgia school shooter Marcee Gray, 43, has a criminal record spanning more than 17 years, and was in jail as recently as April, court records show.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sources told DailyMail.com that the mother-of-three ‘threatened to kill her husband’ during one of the incidents.

She also ‘tied up’ her elderly mother and left her for 24 hours.

 

[DS2021]

Disturbing Facebook posts of Georgia school shooter Colt Gray's mom

The mother of Georgia school shooter Marcee Gray, 43, has a criminal record spanning more than 17 years, and was in jail as recently as April, court records show.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sources told DailyMail.com that the mother-of-three ‘threatened to kill her husband’ during one of the incidents.

She also ‘tied up’ her elderly mother and left her for 24 hours.

His poor siblings.

 

[scapa]

It's a slippery slope my friend, sounds good when we're hyped up, charge dad with murder. What if it were a knife from the kitchen drawer? Is that the next step? What if your 16 year old is drinking and kills a family of 4 one night, in YOUR car? After drinking YOUR beer? Is the parent then charged with vehicular homicide? I could think of dozens of what if's. I would think a precedent would be set in a case such as this, and it would open the door for all sorts of legal issues, and lawsuits, where a minor commits some crime, and the parent is charged. Scary stuff. It's a great discussion Thanks!

I think these are all super-interesting test cases, absolutely worthy of further reflection and discussion, but IMO some are not like the others, and this case has some distinctive elements that make charging the parent more understandable IMO.

The kitchen knife in the drawer is not illegal for a child to own and use -- that AR-15 was. And had the parent of the kitchen knife-wielding child previously been interviewed by LE, had protested the involvement of said child in death threats AND promised that the child well knew the difference between dicing onions and attacking classmates and undertook to ensure that kitchen knives were inaccessible to the child, and THEN bought him a whacking great (and illegal) zombie knife for Xmas, we might have a case.

For me, a non-lawyer, there are a few points here:

- Previous history of death threats; specifically, a school shooting
- Parent undertaking to educate CG in proper gun use and to make all guns in the family home inaccessible
- Parent then purchasing a gun that was illegal for CG to own, as a gift
- Parent clearly failing in undertaking to protect access to guns
- School shooting carried out with gifted weapon

Too many points where parent not only failed to discourage access to weapons after receiving fair warning, but actively encouraged access via gifting the AR-15.

For me, this is NOT a case of an over-zealous prosecutor reaching back into the causal chain to punish a parent unfairly for the actions of the child -- for instance, the allegedly abusive mother is NOT charged -- but charging the clear negligence of the father without which the shootings should not have occurred.

Had CG someone filched a weapon from outside the family home, after the father had rendered all family weapons inaccessible, I don't think we see charges for CG senior here. IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[mickey2942]

I totally agree here.....someone did drop the ball. Numerous people dropped the ball. FBI, School, Parents, etc. etc. This is the case in most, if not ALL of these murders in public schools. These kids have histories long before the violent event.

This is why the immediate action at a school should be to put in place methods to prevent firearm entry to the building.

Agreed. I have worked in schools where the kids go from the school bus directly to the metal detectors, and this was over 20 years ago. In two different school districts.

I felt safer in that inner city school, because I knew that there were no weapons on anyone. And the school district has their own police department, that do constant training.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“Parents need to be able to keep a thumb on their child, you obviously know when something is going on,” expressed Mayor Sarno.

“If you do something reckless and you hand a child a firearm and you have some knowledge that the child is disturbed or has some mental health issue then obviously you can be punished and rather severely,” said Attorney Hagan

Defense attorney discusses charges against father of Georgia shooting suspect

With the quick arrest of the father of the 14-year-old charged with the shooting in Georgia, sends a message about parent accountability in a case like this.

www.westernmassnews.com

 

[statt#1]

“Parents need to be able to keep a thumb on their child, you obviously know when something is going on,” expressed Mayor Sarno.

“If you do something reckless and you hand a child a firearm and you have some knowledge that the child is disturbed or has some mental health issue then obviously you can be punished and rather severely,” said Attorney Hagan

Defense attorney discusses charges against father of Georgia shooting suspect

With the quick arrest of the father of the 14-year-old charged with the shooting in Georgia, sends a message about parent accountability in a case like this.

www.westernmassnews.com

It is truly going to be an interesting court case to watch unfold.

 

[MollyDDD]

because the judge said it in the courtroom
he then called everyone back in to correct himself

Oh my, well that’s not good.

 

[MollyDDD]

I doubt many have sympathy for murderers.

An interest in how the murder became a murderer and understanding the situation is NOT the same as having sympathy for a murderer.

jmo

I think the fact that a 14 year old boy could be driven to the point of killing people, indicates either a mental defect or something was seriously wrong with his upbringing. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

It is truly going to be an interesting court case to watch unfold.

Hopefully it will have a positive effect on helping to prevent more senseless killings. IMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I'm beyond excuses for murder. A murderer is just that, a murderer. The family history makes little difference to me, it is the young man here who acted, who pulled the trigger. I know there are many who disagree, I was in the field for 25 years, often hearing the oft repeated tried and true...he was bullied, his mother and father were druggies, he never had a chance, if it's in the dogs....it's in the pups, apple doesn't fall far from the tree, no services, etc. etc.

Well, I'll opine...this kid was offered services, I'd wager more than once. My opinion is he is/was well known to the guidance counselors, teachers, local LE, heck, the FBI was at his home.

If you go out and buy a box of Betty Crocker cake mix, and put it on the counter, get up the next morning, do you have a cake? No. You have to take some action, open the box, follow the directions, bake the cake. Same goes for therapy and counseling...a family, and in particular, this young man, would have had to accept it. The really sad part is, even assuming there is inpatient treatment, counseling, therapy, group sessions, visits from C&Y, JP involvement, ad infinitum...even assuming all social agencies have been involved for years, there remains no guarantee a young man won't make the choice to kill.

That's what this young man did. He chose to kill. He's a murderer.

In my opinion his father is guilty of gross negligence, but not murder. The courts may find otherwise, like I said, that's my opinion. If this young man had taken a butcher knife to school and stabbed to death 4 students, would we be having the same discussion relative to the father? So many questions arise for me, I'm a thinker

We must prevent the weapon from entering the school building. For me, it's as simple as that.

Over 25 years, in direct one on one conversation with countless youth, aged 7 to 21, I would ask....do you know right from wrong. Every. Single. Time.....the answer was, yes. Every time.

It's a good topic, and discussion is healthy. I've had my share of debate on the matter with countless professionals over an entire career. Choices have consequences, and I'm of the opinion this young man made the choice to kill.

I agree with you. The father is guilty of gross negligence, but not of murder. moo

While I'm on that topic, how did they arrive at charging him with 2 murders when 4 were killed?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

they'll just start shooting up busses or kids at recess

Metal detectors are a good start, imo. So are doors that automatically shut and lock.

As far as public messages, I think they need to start with the students there.

 

[MollyDDD]

It's interesting, Chicago's Public School Board voted to remove school resource officers last February 2024.

https://news.wttw.com/2024/02/22/cps-board-approves-plan-remove-resource-officers-schools

JMO

Hmmm, interesting.