GA - Apalachee High School shooting, 4 dead, 9 injured, Winder, Barrow County - 04 September 2024 *father and son arrested*

[Cryptic]

This terminology has me wondering, does anybody have a factual link to exactly what rifle was used in this incident?

I'm no armorer, nor an expert, but it's been my experience that one of the defining characteristics of the ar-15 is that it is composed of an 'upper' and a 'lower' that can be easily broken down in to two parts.

"Some words cross two meanings, each separate, but both interwined."

Faux mysticism aside, I am not an expert either. Anyways.....

- As you noted, AR15 type weapons can be broken down easily into two parts. But, in full size rifles, both parts, though relatively small, would still be difficult to fully conceal in a student back pack.

- But..... a good many manufacturers offer compact carbine models, and also offer ultra compact variants. These models have folding stocks and short barrels. If the weapon is broken down into two parts, they could fit in a larger style school back pack.

So, what the Sherriff is likely saying is that: "The murderer used an AR-15, but it was not one of the more compact models. Thus, even when broken down, it could not fully fit in a back pack."

 

[STLBlues]

I am not a gunsmith but, I've built a couple AR-15s over the years. You are correct, they consist of an upper and lower that can be broken down into two parts. Depending on the length of the barrel, the upper may or may not be easily concealable in at school backpack. That said, there was a picture either in this thread or in an article posted upthread that showed an AR-15 laying on the ground at the school with LEOs around it. I assumed this was CG's firearm as LEOs would not lay their firearms on the ground.

"Some words cross two meanings, each separate, but both interwined."

Faux mysticism aside, I am not an expert either. Anyways.....

- As you noted, AR15 type weapons can be broken down easily into two parts. But, in full size rifles, both parts, though relatively small, would still be difficult to fully conceal in a student back pack.

- But..... a good many manufacturers offer compact carbine models, and also offer ultra compact variants. These models have folding stocks and short barrels. If the weapon is broken down into two parts, they could fit in a larger style school back pack.

So, what the Sherriff is likely saying is that: "The murderer used an AR-15, but it was not one of the more compact models. Thus, even when broken down, it could not fully fit in a back pack."

Here's the picture I mentioned in my post above, it is is Dotta's post #241.

 

[twall]

This terminology has me wondering, does anybody have a factual link to exactly what rifle was used in this incident? The reason I ask is, the term "ar-15" is being thrown about, and now I see this sheriff states "assault-style" rifle that could not be broken down.

I'm no armorer, nor an expert, but it's been my experience that one of the defining characteristics of the ar-15 is that it is composed of an 'upper' and a 'lower' that can be easily broken down in to two parts.

So, I'm seeking information. If anyone has a link to an actual ar-15 that doesn't break down in to those two aforementioned parts, the upper, and the lower, I'd be interested in that, and if there is any link indicating exactly what rifle this kid used that day, I'd be very appreciative.

Thanks,

.450 Bushmaster? Not very familiar with firearms so IDK but this article mentions it.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/10/homepage/video/apalachee-shooter-ar15-deer-hunt-colt-gray-digvid

 

[RANCH]

However...

Teachers actually are not allowed to leave a classroom as they are ultimately responsible for students...

Speaking from experience...
This gets difficult at times...

JMO...

Can they use a phone to make sure the warning is received and acted on immediately? I would hope so.

I see no excuse for this lack of concern for everyone's safety. JMO.

 

[LadyL]

Teen accused in Georgia shooting rode to school with assault rifle hidden in his backpack, investigators say

Investigators confirmed that Colt Gray snuck a semi automatic assault rifle into Apalachee High School the day of the Georgia shooting.

www.cbsnews.com

As we suspected, the shooter concealed his rifle in his back pack the day of the shooting. Other details in the article.

Also, his father received a text message from the shooter that morning, similar to the text message he sent to his mother.

I read the article. Did I miss where they stated his Dad received a text too?

 

[statt#1]

"The sheriff said the assault-style rife could not be broken down"

Apalachee school shooting: Colt Gray snuck gun into school in his backpack, sheriff says

The sheriff said Colt Gray had a rifle on him all morning until asking to go to the office and opening fire.

www.wsbtv.com

To me, that means the "assault-style rifle" could not be broken down. To me, that means it could not be taken apart, as an ar-15 can be taken apart.

And this picture, I've scanned it pretty close, and if that's a rifle laying there on the floor, it sure doesn't look like any kind of rifle I'm familiar with. The picture doesn't even look like the "parts" of the rifle (that isn't supposed to be able to be broken down) even line up properly, however, I'll admit, the picture is extremely blurred, which, I might add, is curious to me, as even my el cheapo motorola phone camera takes a better picture than that

Colt Gray's AR-style weapon pictured in Apalachee school hall

A chilling photo shows the discarded weapon lying in a corridor following the massacre on Wednesday which claimed the lives of four people including two students.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I did some research on the .450 Bushmaster too, and it appears, and I won't link to the Bushmaster site, but it appears this rifle also breaks down, having 'upper' and a 'lower' part(s).

I've edited to add, the .450 rifle is in the hunting photo, that photo is said to have been taken a year before the shooting, and the rifle he used in the shooting is said to have been purchased for Colt by his father in December of 2023, so the two are not the same, right?

If anyone has a link to what exact rifle was used in this shooting I'd love to have it, thanks!

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/10/homepage/video/apalachee-shooter-ar15-deer-hunt-colt-gray-digvid

 

[RANCH]

Actually...
I have been retired quite some time...

We did have locked outside doors at the time I was teaching...

But... I was just commenting that I was to stay in the classroom with the children (elementary age) at all times...
This would be to protect them from intruders, as well...
I did not at all see it as a lack of caring at all...
In fact... it was just the opposite...

However... yes... I could have made a phone call from the classroom.

I didn't say that staying in the classroom was a problem.

The problem I see is a teacher using email to report a serious security problem. The teacher obviously had concerns with the shooters comments but chose to not make sure the proper people where informed as soon as possible.

Instead no action was taken until later on when the shooters mother called the school. This could possibly be from a lack of urgency in a written email vs a verbal communication from the teacher stating the danger that was present from the shooters comments. JMO.

 

[Sundog]

I read the article. Did I miss where they stated his Dad received a text too?

She called the school in a panic on the morning of Sept. 4 after getting the message, which said "I'm sorry," and said Colin Gray, the boy's father, received similar text messages that morning.

 

[gremlin444]

I didn't say that staying in the classroom was a problem.

The problem I see is a teacher using email to report a serious security problem. The teacher obviously had concerns with the shooters comments but chose to not make sure the proper people where informed as soon as possible.

Instead no action was taken until later on when the shooters mother called the school. This could possibly be from a lack of urgency in a written email vs a verbal communication from the teacher stating the danger that was present from the shooters comments. JMO.

It could also be the best that teacher could do if Colt was still in the classroom at that moment. The teacher knew it shouldn't wait until class was done to report it--but you can't easily pick up the phone and call the office with in front of a class and report a student's concerning comments, esp with the student right there. I was a sign language interpreter in high schools, and I've seen scenarios where a teacher needed to let the office know something fairly urgent (student appeared to be completely messed up on drugs) but needed to do so without the student/other students present hearing. In another situation a student passed the teacher a note about something she had heard another kid in class say just a few moments ago. In both scenarios, the teacher emailed and the office sent security and/or an AP up fairly quickly.

 

[RANCH]

It could also be the best that teacher could do if Colt was still in the classroom at that moment. The teacher knew it shouldn't wait until class was done to report it--but you can't easily pick up the phone and call the office with in front of a class and report a student's concerning comments, esp with the student right there. I was a sign language interpreter in high schools, and I've seen scenarios where a teacher needed to let the office know something fairly urgent (student appeared to be completely messed up on drugs) but needed to do so without the student/other students present hearing. In another situation a student passed the teacher a note about something she had heard another kid in class say just a few moments ago. In both scenarios, the teacher emailed and the office sent security and/or an AP up fairly quickly.

Email didn't work at all in this case and four people died.

You get on the phone and call for help. Maybe a code word could be used. For everyone's safety immediate help is needed. JMO.

 

[Crochet Junkie]

I do not in any way defend this young 14 year old for taking the lives of people he believed bullied him. As a retired clinical social worker, I worked in the schools as a therapist the last 10 years of my career. Before that I would do indepth social histories on children/adolescents with behavioral problems, trying to gain insight into their homelife. If the mother of this boy is an alcoholic, I wonder if she drank while pregnant. Often, children born of mothers who used drugs and/or alcohol during pregnancy, give birth to children with fetal alcohol syndrome. It doesn't go away and usually causes cognitive and social disabilities with poor impulse control. The ability to rationalize and think through a problem is almost non existant. Intense therapies, both privately, educationally and home are very critical for a child to be able to become a decent human being. It sounds like this young man experienced severe neglect and probably physical abuse. The dad sounded like he was going to "teach" his son by showing the proper use of a gun or knife. He was definitely oblivious to the critical need to get his son intense mental health therapy. The father, unfortunately, is an enabler of the abuse by allowing the mother back into their home. It's all a sick family and unfortunately 4 people lost their lives. This boy's life is thrown away because someone did not respond to his needs. When a student, in our county, made a physical threat or injured another person, they were not allowed to attend another school in the district. They were usually placed on Home Instruction and met with the teacher in a public place. Sorry for the long post.

 

[Chimera]

Georgia school shooting suspect kept gun in backpack, hid in bathroom before attack: GBI

State investigators are revealing new details surrounding the gun a 14-year-old boy allegedly used to kill two teachers and two students at his Georgia high school. Colt Gray allegedly brought the AR-15-style rifle used in last week's shooting -- a Christmas present from his dad, according to...

www.yahoo.com

The long gun "could not be broken down," so the teen hid it in his backpack, the GBI said.

The teacher allowed him to leave and take his belongings with him, the GBI said.

First sentence : As the above photo in post # 946, that gun appears to be disassembled.

Second sentence : Why would he need his belongings to go and speak with someone at the front office ?

A comment below in the article by a JH ,(40 min. ago) was on point.
Imo.
Omo.

 

[Ladyotm]

If the FBi traced the call to his home, then it was someone in his home with a Discord account. The whole "my account got hacked" doesn't make sense if the routing to Discord came through their home. Either way these LE were unschooled and it is unfortunate that they are trying to catch bad guys. If they don't know about the technology why were they conducting the interview. If they thought that their stop to his house would stop him from following through on a threat, they were wrong. The video is clear that they were not really doing much to solve a crime. The dad basically ran the show. This video is a training video of what not to do with an online threat. JMHO.

I agree. It was sad watching the video, knowing this shooting likely could have been prevented. He checked the list off in so many ways
*isolated, lack of friends- he mentioned it himself
*reports of bullying
*lack of structure-constant moving from one home/town to another
*access to weapons
*threats made
*and his behavior at the time- the nervous bouncing around
The ball was dropped.I feel like this is where we are headed with these incidents... nonchalant, non diligent awareness, inadequate investigations and follow up.

 

[RANCH]

Georgia school shooting suspect kept gun in backpack, hid in bathroom before attack: GBI

State investigators are revealing new details surrounding the gun a 14-year-old boy allegedly used to kill two teachers and two students at his Georgia high school. Colt Gray allegedly brought the AR-15-style rifle used in last week's shooting -- a Christmas present from his dad, according to...

www.yahoo.com

The long gun "could not be broken down," so the teen hid it in his backpack, the GBI said.

The teacher allowed him to leave and take his belongings with him, the GBI said.

First sentence : As the above photo in post # 946, that gun appears to be disassembled.

Second sentence : Why would he need his belongings to go and speak with someone at the front office ?

A comment below in the article by a JH ,(40 min. ago) was on point.
Imo.
Omo.

The "could not be broken down" statement doesn't make any sense to me.

I wonder if the teacher who allowed the shooter to leave the classroom was the same teacher who sent the ineffective email. If it was I wonder why.

If it was a different teacher that means the email teacher had the opportunity to send out a verbal warning outside of the shooters presence.

More details are needed to really understand what actually happened. JMO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Just like with Crumbly in MI, a teacher had done the right thing and notified the administration. In this scenario, it would make sense that this student should have been brought to the office immediately and his belongings searched. The administration through the school counselors knew that he was having mental health problems and was now speaking of shootings. A call to the parent should have occurred after the child was brought to office to discuss the conversation.

This kid made statements to a teacher. Texted he was sorry to his mother. The mother was right to call with the idea of getting to him immediately. Why did the school allow for that 1/2 plus time lag where there were no eyes on him?

Or, if they looked and couldn't find him, could they have quietly initiated protocols?? IDK

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I have a hard time believing that the FBI couldn't trace these messages. I mean every terrorist in the world uses a VPN--and I assume even more advanced tools to evade detection. Is a VPN really that foolproof against the FBI? And they did trace it--they traced it to him, partly. Do they really lack any other tools to get an answer? Or was this a matter of not having the will and dismissing the potential seriousness of it?

I'm a high school teacher and I just attempted to share concerns at my school about a student and the SRO didn't know the kid, didn't write down his name, and seemed a bit eye-rolly about it. That is still the pervasive attitude of most people I encounter--it could never happen here. We have no metal detectors and are sitting ducks basically.

I'm so sorry your concerns were dismissed. Please, remain resolute. If the first person you reported the child to didn't take you seriously, keep reporting him until you are taken seriously, and report the SRO, too! Teachers get way too much guff (nicest way I can say it) from students and parents. SROs and administration and support staff should treat every reported concern as a threat, by default, until determined otherwise. MOO MEO

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834424582561780108

 

[statt#1]

Scroll down for some FAQ's on this case.

It is clear on this site in that it states "Colt Gray brought the gun into the school on his own. The assault-style rife could not be broken down, but Gray hid it in his backpack."

Frequently Asked Questions: Apalachee High School Shooting

Last updated September 13, 2024 at 8:33 a.m. Where do I go for more information? https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2024-09-05/gbi-investigates-scho… What jail was Colt Gray booked into? Gainesville Regional Youth Detention Center What jail was Colin Gray booked into? Barrow County Jail

gbi.georgia.gov

I'm very interested in what "black semi-automatic AR-15 style rifle" was used, that fit in a backpack some how concealed well enough that nobody saw it, and that could not be broken down.

What Apalachee High School shooting suspect Colt Gray did before shots fired

New details from investigators have revealed what suspected gunman Colt Gray did in the moments before the deadly shooting at Apalachee High School.

www.fox10phoenix.com

 

[Inthedetails]

Scroll down for some FAQ's on this case.

It is clear on this site in that it states "Colt Gray brought the gun into the school on his own. The assault-style rife could not be broken down, but Gray hid it in his backpack."

Frequently Asked Questions: Apalachee High School Shooting

Last updated September 13, 2024 at 8:33 a.m. Where do I go for more information? https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2024-09-05/gbi-investigates-scho… What jail was Colt Gray booked into? Gainesville Regional Youth Detention Center What jail was Colin Gray booked into? Barrow County Jail

gbi.georgia.gov

I'm very interested in what "black semi-automatic AR-15 style rifle" was used, that fit in a backpack some how concealed well enough that nobody saw it, and that could not be broken down.

What Apalachee High School shooting suspect Colt Gray did before shots fired

New details from investigators have revealed what suspected gunman Colt Gray did in the moments before the deadly shooting at Apalachee High School.

www.fox10phoenix.com

Even though he apparently hid the gun while walking into school, part of me thinks he wanted to be caught at the door. I could be wrong, and obviously he chose to kill others. jmo

 

[Simply Southern]

It could also be the best that teacher could do if Colt was still in the classroom at that moment. The teacher knew it shouldn't wait until class was done to report it--but you can't easily pick up the phone and call the office with in front of a class and report a student's concerning comments, esp with the student right there. I was a sign language interpreter in high schools, and I've seen scenarios where a teacher needed to let the office know something fairly urgent (student appeared to be completely messed up on drugs) but needed to do so without the student/other students present hearing. In another situation a student passed the teacher a note about something she had heard another kid in class say just a few moments ago. In both scenarios, the teacher emailed and the office sent security and/or an AP up fairly quickly.

The teacher could have texted the principal, another staff member, the SRO. No action is unacceptable and a failure to perform a crucial job function... protecting all students.

Teachers have to get with the program. Protecting students safety is part of their job, administration/school boards need to hold everyone accountable. School safety is paramount !!! Empathy, complacent behavior cost lives. We see this replayed time and time again.

This school was a risk, no metal detectors, appears teachers/staff had no safety plan or failed to implement. A teacher not reporting a threat, a clear failure. A teacher leaving a door open unsecured, a clear failure. A guidance counselor going off to look for the wrong student, a clear failure.

I've yet, to see a school shooting that was NOT a direct result of staff failure to follow written policy.

Moo...