General Discussion Thread #2

[danzn16]

No I did not conveniently forget. I believe that after he heard the noise in the bathroom his mind would go into emergency mode. It was a life or death situation, sheer panic. His concentration would be on locating the gun his eyes would be on the floor. Nobody would behave normally if their very life was at stake. Also if he is to be believed, it was very dark and he was afraid to put the lights on.
On the evidence we have I can't find any flaws in his statement. That is not to say there may be more evidence to implicate him during his trial.

Life or death situation from bathroom noises?? I think not

 

[SyraKelly]

I know nothing about guns-he useed a 9mm,do the casings on this guns pop out on top?

 

[SyraKelly]

I don't know if this has been posted yet
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21535387

 

[jjenny]

No I did not conveniently forget. I believe that after he heard the noise in the bathroom his mind would go into emergency mode. It was a life or death situation, sheer panic. His concentration would be on locating the gun his eyes would be on the floor. Nobody would behave normally if their very life was at stake. Also if he is to be believed, it was very dark and he was afraid to put the lights on.
On the evidence we have I can't find any flaws in his statement. That is not to say there may be more evidence to implicate him during his trial.

If he is so paranoid that after hearing a noise from the bathroom (despite the fact that he was not alone in the apartment and knew his g/f was in the aprtment) he decides it was life or death situation and sheer panic-then I think he should be locked up in a secure pshychiatric facility rather than roaming free.
If people started shooting at bathroom dors every time they heard a noise-well, they would kill off their relatives quickly.

 

[jjenny]

gitana1 "Like the prosecution argued, what burglar comes to use your toilet?"



Exactly. Burglars come to rob and sometimes kill. That is why OP reacted the way he did.

Nobody came to his apartment to rob him. He didn't see any burglars. He knew his g/f was in the apartment.

 

[21merc7]

I don't know if this has been posted yet
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21535387

Not directed at you Syra, just the article.

Hmmm....

Incompetence or paying off, I don't like it. It is an excuse, true or not.

If OP was so paranoid, if he was using cocaine at all as described in one article, or even just too much caffeine, taurine, testis compositum, it could be too much for an already troubled and sleepless (insomnia claims) mind.

Don't know what happened here, but he is culpable regardless.

I'm getting irritated with any excuse about it being reported. As if, my place is worse than yours. A one upmanship to excuse.

He should no longer live in SA or anywhere he does not feel safe, but he is still responsible for killing Reeva.

Sorry I am ranting. If it is that bad there, move. I live in a very bad area, and am too lazy and scared to move. Can't afford it. I take precautions. I am paranoid, but do not own a gun because I am old enough to know myself. I also don't shoot guns in restaurants, at washing machines, or lovers.

 

[SyraKelly]

Has it been reported what OP was wearing when everyone showed up.Was he dressed for bed or did he have street clothes on.Also has anything been said about the CSI taking his clothes for testing?

 

[shane13]

I don't know if this has been posted yet
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21535387

That's some article!
Thanks for posting.
Contains, "While exercising their duties, police are often accused of committing crimes - if they are not suspended, they continue working..."

Also implies if their forensics people are any good, they leave the country.

But in includes what I deduced yesterday, prosecution's goal seems first and foremost to learn defense's strategy as early as possible.

 

[21merc7]

That's some article!
Thanks for posting.
Contains, "While exercising their duties, police are often accused of committing crimes - if they are not suspended, they continue working..."

Also implies if their forensics people are any good, they leave the country.

But in includes what I deduced yesterday, prosecution's goal seems first and foremost to learn defense's strategy as early as possible.

Agreed.

If the entire system is inept and corrupt, why have one. Just convert to mafia rule. It seems they have some sort of democratic existence. If it is useless, then don't have it at all, or demand reform. And don't excuse a "star" in advance.

 

[Carol70]

Life or death situation from bathroom noises?? I think not

I'm really struggling to carry on my defence with nobody being open to possibility. For a start, as stated in a previous post, my family have been the victims of a home invasion while we slept. I absolutely cannot even begin to describe the utter fear, horror and anger we felt on waking. Strange intruders, possibly armed, stood over me while I slept in my lounge, my young daughter slept in her bed where possibly they stood in her doorway. The removed what they could carry from our home, leaving our front gate standing wide open and their point of entry to our home, leaving us extremely vulnerable to a second attack that same night.

I myself, can totally related to OP fear and terror, forcing him to do the unimaginable without thinking in a clear rational way..he didn't think to look in the bed for Reeva because he thought she was there...it really could be as simple as that! Is that so hard to imagine?

Yes, we a hearing all the bad boy stories told by anon sources, the bashed in skull has not been confirmed. Steroid use has not been confirmed. Sexual dyfunction has not been confirmed by even a pissed off ex girlfriend. He has more than likely been in arguments, been threatening for what ever reason...but what male between 20-30 has not found a need to prove their manhood some way or another. Yes, I do not deny that I'm sure more will come to light when trial rolls around but until such time, I am finding it hard to even read all the crap being passed in the media as fact, told by police " sources" Please google SAP bribery. Give an officer R100 bucks and they wil tell you anything you want to hear which is then fobbed off as fact.

And yes, admittedly, there are a lot of gaps that need filling and I need more information but there is nothing more I can argue now without concrete fact. I'm still on the fence and think his story is plausible for now.

 

[shane13]

Agreed.

If the entire system is inept and corrupt, why have one. Just convert to mafia rule. It seems they have some sort of democratic existence. If it is useless, then don't have it at all, or demand reform. And don't excuse a "star" in advance.

I wonder if there ever has even any break-ins in the high security development where he lives. Note this was not claimed by defense.
To me it's rather clear, that the virtual entire affidavit is a set of lies.
Like the Daily Mail articles detail he first bludgeoned her, then shot enough times to ensure she was dead. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-bail-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamps-murder.html

All the other incidents indicate poor impulse control. But here, once he struck her, his intent was "Oh no, if she is alive, I will lose my fame, fortune, freedom, etc. So I must kill her and not have her bear witness against me."

Depraved indifference.
Also I do not believe now that any substance directly caused this. The testis thing is just homeopathy (like nothing in there). He was just the type that feels, "If I can't have you any more, no one else will."

When the arguing escalated, she probably told him they were done, and wanted to leave, he prevented that and in a rage struck her. Once he did that, his only thought was to not have a living witness to that offense. And with depraved indifference, instead of stopping and getting help for her, he only stopped shooting when he knew she was dead (stopped screaming or crying/sobbing.)

JMHO of the most likely scenario.

 

[21merc7]

Carol70;

Don't be upset with my rant.

I know things are bad there, but would like the media to stop playing it up.

I totally understand that OP could have been terrified and acted according to that.

I also understand he admitted responsibility.

I would like to see some good articles about the area and the system. To be honest, with the bail hearing(s), it sounds like the system is okay. The media articles make it sound like we are talking about a much beyond the times area, the hearings did not give that impression.

(If it is that bad, there are enough citizens there to make a change if they stand together.)

 

[Carol70]

That's some article!
Thanks for posting.
Contains, "While exercising their duties, police are often accused of committing crimes - if they are not suspended, they continue working..."

Also implies if their forensics people are any good, they leave the country.

But in includes what I deduced yesterday, prosecution's goal seems first and foremost to learn defense's strategy as early as possible.

Lol, Our Police Commissioner (that position is the highest position in the police btw) Jackie Selebi, convicted for corruption on a grand scale, replaced by Bheki Cele, suspended from duty for corruption on a grand scale....maybe we will be third time lucky??? Says it all doesn't it!!

 

[shane13]

Lol, Our Police Commissioner (that position is the highest position in the police btw) Jackie Selebi, convicted for corruption on a grand scale, replaced by Bheki Cele, suspended from duty for corruption on a grand scale....maybe we will be third time lucky??? Says it all doesn't it!!

I am afraid I view this completely the opposite. In my country there is never any justice for all the evil done at the top levels!

At least in your country the top people are tried and convicted.

 

[Carol70]

Carol70;

Don't be upset with my rant.

I know things are bad there, but would like the media to stop playing it up.

I totally understand that OP could have been terrified and acted according to that.

I also understand he admitted responsibility.

I would like to see some good articles about the area and the system. To be honest, with the bail hearing(s), it sounds like the system is okay. The media articles make it sound like we are talking about a much beyond the times area, the hearings did not give that impression.

(If it is that bad, there are enough citizens there to make a change if they stand together.)

I'm not upset at all....I do hear where everyone is comming from, it does seem so unbelievable. I just meant its hard to play defence when no one is open to possibility particularly because its so hard to understand. It's like trying to debate with someone about a game of rugby, when they have never played.

And yes, citizens have had enough, we are on the cusp of an uprising, people are standing and saying no to crime and corruption, marching, protests, referendums, petitions. I believe it will get better, it cannot get any worse.

And somewhere in this thread, I saw someone mention something about people who stay when they have money to leave...why should we leave like so many have, this is my country, it's my birthrite to be here, I am an African and I refuse to let criminals and corrupt politicians force me to leave my home. Alot of South Africans feel the same, including OP it seems.

 

[SweetT]

I'm really struggling to carry on my defence with nobody being open to possibility. For a start, as stated in a previous post, my family have been the victims of a home invasion while we slept. I absolutely cannot even begin to describe the utter fear, horror and anger we felt on waking. Strange intruders, possibly armed, stood over me while I slept in my lounge, my young daughter slept in her bed where possibly they stood in her doorway. The removed what they could carry from our home, leaving our front gate standing wide open and their point of entry to our home, leaving us extremely vulnerable to a second attack that same night.

I myself, can totally related to OP fear and terror, forcing him to do the unimaginable without thinking in a clear rational way..he didn't think to look in the bed for Reeva because he thought she was there...it really could be as simple as that! Is that so hard to imagine?

Yes, we a hearing all the bad boy stories told by anon sources, the bashed in skull has not been confirmed. Steroid use has not been confirmed. Sexual dyfunction has not been confirmed by even a pissed off ex girlfriend. He has more than likely been in arguments, been threatening for what ever reason...but what male between 20-30 has not found a need to prove their manhood some way or another. Yes, I do not deny that I'm sure more will come to light when trial rolls around but until such time, I am finding it hard to even read all the crap being passed in the media as fact, told by police " sources" Please google SAP bribery. Give an officer R100 bucks and they wil tell you anything you want to hear which is then fobbed off as fact.

And yes, admittedly, there are a lot of gaps that need filling and I need more information but there is nothing more I can argue now without concrete fact. I'm still on the fence and think his story is plausible for now.

I am on the other side of the boat. I have had an irrate man pull a gun on me and threatened to kill me, I was beat up by this angry pissed off man and if I had not survived he would have had a similar story I am sure.

 

[Carol70]

:at:

I am afraid I view this completly the opposite. In my country there is never any justice for all the evil done at the top levels!

At least in your country the top people are tried and convicted.

Yep, however, justice was only served when the public became to loud for government to ignore.

 

[Carol70]

And I just want to state again for the newcomers...I believe OP is guilty of murder, I do not dispute that, he HAS killed a person and intended to kill a person, I just don't think he intended for the person to be Reeva.

 

[shane13]

One thing RE this case.
Please let go of the steroid (non-)factor. As I posted yesterday--even a link to the ingredients. What the cops found was a homeopathic remedy. It has nothing in there but extreme dilutions.

That will not raise hormone levels, which is why this athlete was safe in taking it. Here cops were idiots, in this day and age of the internet not to try to look it up or contact someone in S.A. who knows a lick about homeopathy instead of calling it a steroid drug.

 

[Carol70]

One thing RE this case.
Please let go of the steroid (non-)factor. As I posted yesterday--even a link to the ingredients. What the cops found was a homeopathic remedy. It has nothing in there but extreme dilutions.

That will not raise hormone levels, which is why this athlete was safe in taking it. Here cops were idiots, in this day and age of the internet not to try to look it up or contact someone in S.A. who knows a lick about homeopathy instead of calling it a steroid drug.

Yes exactly but now the media have picked up on the fact that the stuff found in his house could be used for sexual dyfunction, every girl who has ever been in the vicinity of OP will now be hounded for an interview finding out if he was a good shag!