General Discussion Thread #2

[Mrs G Norris]

We have already heard some dirt on Reeva .. That she was having an affair with rugby player Francois Hougaard ... (why have an affair when you're just starting out with someone????)

I believe his PR machine are already releasing things.

 

[soozieqtips]

We have already heard some dirt on Reeva .. That she was having an affair with rugby player Francois Hougaard ... (why have an affair when you're just starting out with someone????)

I believe his PR machine are already releasing things.

Do you have a link for that? All I read was that there may have been a message from Houggard on her iPad that evening, but it was just supposition as far as I was aware.

 

[whiterum]

Pistorius's childhood was shaped partly by tragedy. His parents divorced when he was 6, a fact that largely contributed to a strained relationship between Oscar and his father, a businessman, that continues to this day. His mother died when he was 15, the result of drug complications following a hysterectomy.

http://www.biography.com/people/oscar-pistorius-20910935

Hmmmm wonder if there was abuse towards mother from father.....

Wonder why he would have kept his fathers ammunition in his safe, since they didn't get on and were not really close. A bit of an excuse to try and avoid being charged with illegal possession IMO

 

[Patticake]

Maybe the Myers only saw Reeva's wounds facing her...the back of her skull is where she was allegedly struck with the bat
maybe they missed this

Wow! Thanks for that information. I do suspect that they only ID'd the body by her face.

Another thing I keep thinking about is the medic's statement that her head was very bloody as he saw her at the foot of the stairs.

.

 

[natsound]

Well that was one of my points. While superficially opposing bail--can't make it too obvious. His testimony and going along with nearly everything defense claimed was to ensure OP got bail. Even not pulling him earlier etc.

I am hoping at this deep level, this was only for getting OP out on bail, and I hope they are not trying to lose the case itself in the coming months.

I don't know if we can say it was to ensure he got bail. No one knew how the magistrate was going to rule. Nothing was ensured. IMO, Botha was preoccupied with his own criminal problems that day and didn't have the stamina to stand up to Roux's drilling. When he said none of OP's claims could be refuted, perhaps what he meant was, "OK, whatever you say. Get me off this stand."

 

[writer411]

We have already heard some dirt on Reeva .. That she was having an affair with rugby player Francois Hougaard ... (why have an affair when you're just starting out with someone????)

I believe his PR machine are already releasing things.

no amount of dirt on the gf could justify slaughtering her like an animal. plus, for dirt to work, hed have to swap the intruder story for a crime of passion story.

also, dont think this guy had any feelings for this woman at all, since he just started shooting indiscriminately without first confirming her location for safety reasons.

 

[otyikondo]

"first pictures of Oscar Pistorious' bathroom where he gunned down model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. "

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-first-pictures-bathroom-1719498

Rant begins...

Sorry, but I'm seriously underwhelmed by this photograph, which has been trawled around the yellow press along with the "corner bath" image.

At best I suspect (and frankly I've seen so much "speculation-posing-as-fact" in the last twenty pages or so of this thread that I feel a right to "suspect" a little bit) that this is at the very best a bathroom from a "similar property" in perhaps the same well-to-do Silver Lakes estate, and the picture is culled from a realtor's catalogue.

However, it is almost certainly NOT OP's ensuite bathroom toilet, unless the layout shown in projection in the courtroom during the bail hearing was complete nonsense, and the evidence given by Det. Botha and BASED on that layout was equally nonsensical.

This WC shown here:
a) is appreciably LARGER than the cramped 1.14m x 1.4m of the Pistorius bedroom WC
b) has a basin
c) has no small window directly behind the WC seat itself,
and d) was used erroneously for the "artist's impression" drawings seen in the early stages of the bail hearing that confused everybody because the WC seat was placed at 90 degrees to that setting that would most obviously have allowed the bullets to strike the victim on the RIGHT side of her body. Fortunately later drawings reverted to the original builders' plans for the property.

The fact that the image (always the SAME image, too) has surfaced largely in tabloid outlets that often could not find their own asshohl with a detailed map, even when they are not deliberately seeking to misinform their readers, further compounds my sense that this was a hurried editorial effort to get "pictures from the charnel-house". Ugh. :moo:

File under "chaff".

Don't please get me wrong in my snarky remarks about "speculation posing as fact" above: I personally remain less than convinced of Oscar Pistorius's "self-defence in extremis, I had to save myself and Reeva" image of what happened, but I feel many posters are getting carried away on a flood-tide of wild opinionising in the absence of any hard evidence to back their feelings up.

It's all very well to join in the fun of the chase, but some of these claims - most obviously the all-too-joyful rediscovery of the "cricket bat as lethal weapon" theory - are so tendentious at present that they kind of look, well... tacky to me. :furious:

Sure, I'll have egg on my face if it really does turn out that the prosecution have performed a cute double-reverse-triple-backflip-Immelmann-turn manoeuvre to outflank and shoot down the dastardly Mr. Roux and his highly-paid defence cohorts when the REAL TRIAL comes, but until the forensic evidence is presented and defended in court, you are clutching at straws here, and are also cherry-picking wildly differing accounts of the involvement of the bat in the whole sorry business.

I do on the other hand notice, much to my delight, that the "Canonisation Meme" - referred to in that long post #122 many pages ago - is very much alive and well, as Reeva fast approaches sainthood, only a week and a bit after her untimely death.
"A classy, high character woman trying to make a positive impact in the world, didn't hear anyone say a bad thing about her", etc, etc. Gimme a break, she was a model and a minor celeb, not Mahatma Gandhi. Besides which, the whole canonisation thing is utterly repugnant, as it carries a sub-text that blowing the brains out of a more flawed specimen of womanhood might not have been quite so unacceptable. Double Ugh.

Naturally the defence will later do their level best to dismantle Reeva's alleged beatitude, just as the prosecution (and the vast majority of posters on here, incidentally) are already launching into the character assassination of the "volatile", "moody", "troubled" Oscar Pistorius.

Like I said... I don't think he's innocent. I don't even think he's a very likeable chap. I just don't believe wild rumour has a part to play in matters like this.

Rant over.

P.S. To Carol70 in SA. You are still definitely on your own defending the reckless rascal OP, but at least I'll offer you some flanking support against the most barking-mad "confirmationalist" claims for his inevitable guilt.

 

[Estelle]

Nicholas‏@Nick_Haslam

South African police have installed state of the art technology outside the bail address of Oscar Pistorius to ensure he doesn't leave.

 

[natsound]

This is what I meant by enabling from his family and friends earlier in this discussion .. it seems like there was a lead up to this event .. IF people around OP had said to him that he was behaving badly, that he needed to pull his head in, that things needed to change then I can't see him suing someone he had hurt, and I can't see them covering for him and saying they had 'never seen a dark side' .. I can't see him shooting a friend in the foot and the friend going along with the 'it was an accident' story. If people had come down on him like a ton of bricks, instead of covering up for him when he began acting out, I don't think it would have come to this.

I know someone who is a compulsive shopper, and those closest to her don't do much else but frown upon it. I guess hindsight is 20/20 when we blow off people's problems and something disastrous happens. OP had the added complication of being a national hero in SA, with lots of money and influence. My feeling is, he wasn't going to listen to anyone. In fact, he might have retaliated against anyone who tried to get in his way.

 

[shane13]

Nicholas‏@Nick_Haslam

South African police have installed state of the art technology outside the bail address of Oscar Pistorius to ensure he doesn't leave.

Why would he want to leave?
Did you see his new digs? A bigger mansion.
Carl Pistorius visits house where Oscar is living - YouTube

 

[natsound]

Nicholas‏@Nick_Haslam

South African police have installed state of the art technology outside the bail address of Oscar Pistorius to ensure he doesn't leave.

He can leave the house. He's not on house confinement.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Do you have a link for that? All I read was that there may have been a message from Houggard on her iPad that evening, but it was just supposition as far as I was aware.

That was mentioned on the documentary last night near the end .. It was mentioned during a discussion that said there had been fights between the two by the reporter Peter Stefanovic.

ETA I'm not saying they HAD had an affair, just that the story had been put out there ... which was to say it is POSSIBLE that OP's PR team had played a part in that.

 

[Xavier]

That is true. But one site I came across said that Oscar's hired people may now be looking to dig up dirt about her and go public if they find anything.

And new headline: First night home for Pistorius in very "posh" setting.
http://news.iafrica.com/sa/844361.html

Elsewhere I read he is set to take imminent ownership of a very expensive new sports car.

And the lovely young lass was brutally murdered as she was finally trying to break away from this guy.

This case reminds me a little of Dorothy Stratten--movie was "Star 80." Seen it?

Of course Reeva lived a third longer-- nearly 30 as opposed to only 20 for poor Dorothy. And Reeva despite being so sweet had to be more world weary and knowledgable as she was a law graduate.

Both were perhaps about to become "stars."

But both seemed so sweet and pretty, and both in the clutches of jealous murderous men. With Dorothy, in addition to jealousy I believe Paul Snider was coked up, but at least he killed himself after killing her.

Mrs Norris -- Stratton was involved in a triangle Hugh Hefner, Peter Bogdonavich and her crazt ex Paul

There are some gruesome photos and stories about it..really sad..she would be 52 today

dorothy stratton - Google Search

 

[Xavier]

Do you have a link for that? All I read was that there may have been a message from Houggard on her iPad that evening, but it was just supposition as far as I was aware.

Some of the S African media have talked about OP being extremely jealous of Reeva even looking at another guy...and if she was getting calls, texts from another guy, well that sounds like that would push OP angry, over the deep end

Their media said OP was very possessive and controlling...Bad RED FLAGS for anyone in a relationship

IMO Most controlling people are very insecure..OP is controlling, intense and Reeva was said to be more of a free spirit

So you have opposites...one likes freedom and the other wants to control those freedoms

 

[shane13]

[/B]


Mrs Norris -- Stratton was involved in a triangle Hugh Hefner, Peter Bogdonavich and her crazt ex Paul

There are some gruesome photos and stories about it..really sad..she would be 52 today

dorothy stratton - Google Search

Thanks Xavier (it was my post [Shane].)

I didn't realize she would be only 52 now. Snuffed out at only 20.

ANd the crazy stuff I just read--legalistics. Because he killed her first, then himself--all her $worth went to him--they were still legally married. Then his family sued after he died to get all her/his money and won.

Of course money is like nothing when you have a 20 year old with a bright future, and so sweet.

Did you ever see "Star 80"?

 

[Xavier]

It does not end the issue for me. The way I have put things together now is that Mr Myers identified the body as being Reeva but that does not mean that he could see if her skull was fractured or not. They probably did not want him to know before they told Reeva's parents. Reeva's parents never saw the body but were shown photos of it and then told that she was hit with a cricket bat.

So what was the sequence of events?

While Pistorius is asleep, Reeva on iPad gets message after midnight from Hougaard to wish her Happy Valentine's Day

Pistorius wakes up and sees Reeva on iPad and gets iPad from her to invade her privacy by looking at messages.

2-3am He goes into a jealous rage. They argue. She says she is leaving him. He locks bedroom door so she cannot escape and hides key from her.

Argument escalates and he hits her on head with cricket bat. She screams. Her skull is fractured. He reaches for gun and shoots her in the hip as she is running into the bathroom. She locks door of toilet. He realises he has overstepped the mark and he does not want anyone to know how violent he was with her. She has to die.

He waits 17 minutes while concocting his intruder story.

He has legs on. He goes to toilet and fires 3 shots.

Good points Estelle, thanks --- I agree with your theory, sounds simple and uncomplicated, exactly what OP's defense probably does'nt want it to sound like

Is the S Afrikaan medical examiners are up to speed, have the chops to really have the latest hi tech forensics, they'll be able to conclude what came forst, the bat or the bullets

 

[Estelle]

Sunday, 24 February 2013

MUST READ: Hilarious Open Letter To Oscar Pistorius

I came across this open letter to Para-Olympic star and murder suspect Oscar Pistorius written by blogger Stanley Nwabia, and I found it quite satiric. Read below:


A NIGERIAN’S OPEN LETTER TO OSCAR PISTORIUS.

Okay, Mr Oscar Pistorius, let me get this straight-you were aware that Reeva Steenkamp was staying at your house that night, right? And from the look of things, you both slept on the same bed.

So, a strange sound wakes you up deep into the night, and what would a ‘vulnerable’ person do in that scenario? If Reeva was indeed sleeping next to you, you’d tap her gently, she wakes and you ask her-"Did you hear that sound? It’s coming from the bathroom." And Reeva would have said, "Oh my God, it could be a burglar, call the police" or "Bring your gun, let’s go check it out." But no, that didn't happen Mr Oscar, you didn’t first check to know where your girlfriend was. You simply picked up your gun and headed straight to where the ‘strange noise’ was coming from-your bathroom.
I don't know the level of sophistication or stupidity of South African burglars and intruders, but in Nigeria, burglars or intruders don’t enter your house just to use the bathroom, like seriously?

I understand Mr Oscar that you live in one of those highbrow neighborhoods in Pretoria-South Africa, a fortified housing estate with armed private security guards and all-a burglar/intruder beats all this and heads straight to your bathroom? By the way, what was the ‘strange noise’ that got your attention? Was it the sound of footsteps, or the loud farts emanating from your bathroom as the ‘intruder’ did his/her thing?

For argument sake let’s agree that you truly thought she was a burglar/intruder hiding in your bathroom. So Oscar, you come out with your gun pointed towards the bathroom door, you still don’t know where Reeva is. You were not worried if this ‘intruder’ had raped or murdered your girlfriend or if she was being held hostage right there in the bathroom.

A normal gun owner in that situation would probably have asked, "Who's there? Reeva, is that you?" but NO...our ‘blade runner’ closed his eyes and opened fire, three or four times hitting his target spot on. I also want to believe that as soon as the first shot was fired Oscar, you could have heard a female voice scream from inside the bathroom, but unfortunately, our ‘blade runner’ is apparently deaf too. Three bullets hit Reeva and she dies eventually.

Dear Oscar Pistorius, you are very lucky that you are from South Africa, a nation with a police force that can murder about 30 poor miners on live TV but still defend itself and charge the survivors for murder.

The Nigerian police probably have worse records but believe me, if you had committed this type of crime in Naija and gave us this 'I thought she was an intruder' story???? ***I laff in Naija accent***** by the time our Police men shove one of your prosthetic legs up your *advertiser censored*, you will not realize when you start spilling out the whole truth on what actually transpired that night.

For now, you have been granted bail until June, you now have more time to improve on your story. The South African police also now have more time to further scuttle this murder case and probably look for an ex-Police officer on death-row to come lead this investigation.

It does look like several ‘powerful’ elements in South Africa (and the sports branding world) want you to become a free man. You are one of those international-inspirational icons that make the ‘rainbow’ nation look good. Mandela is already too old and expiring. Another thing you've got on your side is that you are not a fire-brand critic of President Jacob Zuma or the ANC and so they may let you off the hook.

Trust me, if Julius Malema's wife or girlfriend was mysteriously shot and killed in a town 100 kilometres away from Julius' house, he (Julius) would still be arrested and charged for her murder...they'll probably find him guilty.

Stanley Nwabia (struggling blogger)

Stanley does have many points, and I'm still laughing!

 

[Xavier]

Only just found this thread, so excuse me if I repeat anything!

Reasons for a possible motive might be the fact he was very intense and jealous about Reeva, according to a couple of articles. Don't know how much has been exaggerated by journalists twisting words, but here are some excerpts.




He sounds extremely controlling and impatient as well, if something as innocent as asking a waiter 'too many questions' or dressing too casually made him angry.

Not saying jealousy is why he killed her, but it's a possible motive. I don't honestly believe his story at all. It's so ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense. The biggest problems I have with it are these:

1) He claims to have been paranoid about his safety and was 'overcome with terror' when he heard the 'burglar' - and yet he left his balcony doors open while he slept? And also his bathroom window with ladders that he said he knew had been left outside? How does that tie in with being paranoid about safety? How many break-ins has his complex had since he lived there? I think I read it hadn't had any in 10 years.

2) When he shouted at the 'burglar' to get out of his house... why didn't Reeva respond from wherever she was? If she was really in the toilet, then how come she didn't yell at him to stop shooting once he'd started? At no point does OP say that Reeva ever made a sound, from the moment he got up to close the balcony doors to the moment he shot her dead. Does that sound feasible to anyone?

3) He claims she was still alive and breathing when he carried her downstairs, which is only his version of events. But if she really was still alive, then he can't have killed her with the first shot - so again, how come she didn't scream at him to stop shooting?

4) His brother and lawyer were at the house looking for the memory stick before the emergency services even got there. Now why on earth would details of his offshore accounts be a priority immediately after Reeva was killed?

5) He must have had other people stay over at his house before. What happened when any of his guests got up to go to the toilet in the night. Did he automatically assume it was a burglar and shoot them dead?? No! So why did he assume Reeva was a burglar but no one else that had stayed over?

Too many things don't add up, and I sincerely hope justice is done for Reeva Steenkamp's family. So far, OP's family have been talking about how this tragedy has completely changed their lives, while as an afterthought, acknowledging that Reeva's family have suffered a terrible loss. This is about a young woman whose life ended in the most horrific of circumstances, and OP and his clan seem to have forgotten that in their quest to garner sympathy for themselves.

IMO OP & his handlers were trying to protect his assets from possible civil charges Reeva's family could seek which would be a financial settlement from OP's estate

Go back and see this is what OJ's defense team did by moving much of his wealth to Florida -- real estate, etc, to take advantage of the Florida's asset protection status and keep OJ from paying the Goldman family for their son's murder

The Goldman's sued OJ for about $33 million and have not collected much of it to my know how

Here's a link per OP's off shore accounts

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/ah...s-offshore-accounts-and-a-home-in-italy-inves

 

[Xavier]

Oscar Pistorius: 'substance found in home is herbal sexual stimulant'
Experts believe a substance found in Oscar Pistorius's home during a search by police investigating the killing of his girlfriend is a herbal sexual stimulant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...found-in-home-is-herbal-sexual-stimulant.html

 

[shane13]

Sunday, 24 February 2013

MUST READ: Hilarious Open Letter To Oscar Pistorius

I came across this open letter to Para-Olympic star and murder suspect Oscar Pistorius written by blogger Stanley Nwabia, and I found it quite satiric. Read below:


A NIGERIAN’S OPEN LETTER TO OSCAR PISTORIUS.

Okay, Mr Oscar Pistorius, let me get this straight-you were aware that Reeva Steenkamp was staying at your house that night, right? And from the look of things, you both slept on the same bed.

So, a strange sound wakes you up deep into the night, and what would a ‘vulnerable’ person do in that scenario? If Reeva was indeed sleeping next to you, you’d tap her gently, she wakes and you ask her-"Did you hear that sound? It’s coming from the bathroom." And Reeva would have said, "Oh my God, it could be a burglar, call the police" or "Bring your gun, let’s go check it out." But no, that didn't happen Mr Oscar, you didn’t first check to know where your girlfriend was. You simply picked up your gun and headed straight to where the ‘strange noise’ was coming from-your bathroom.
I don't know the level of sophistication or stupidity of South African burglars and intruders, but in Nigeria, burglars or intruders don’t enter your house just to use the bathroom, like seriously?

I understand Mr Oscar that you live in one of those highbrow neighborhoods in Pretoria-South Africa, a fortified housing estate with armed private security guards and all-a burglar/intruder beats all this and heads straight to your bathroom? By the way, what was the ‘strange noise’ that got your attention? Was it the sound of footsteps, or the loud farts emanating from your bathroom as the ‘intruder’ did his/her thing?

For argument sake let’s agree that you truly thought she was a burglar/intruder hiding in your bathroom. So Oscar, you come out with your gun pointed towards the bathroom door, you still don’t know where Reeva is. You were not worried if this ‘intruder’ had raped or murdered your girlfriend or if she was being held hostage right there in the bathroom.

A normal gun owner in that situation would probably have asked, "Who's there? Reeva, is that you?" but NO...our ‘blade runner’ closed his eyes and opened fire, three or four times hitting his target spot on. I also want to believe that as soon as the first shot was fired Oscar, you could have heard a female voice scream from inside the bathroom, but unfortunately, our ‘blade runner’ is apparently deaf too. Three bullets hit Reeva and she dies eventually.

Dear Oscar Pistorius, you are very lucky that you are from South Africa, a nation with a police force that can murder about 30 poor miners on live TV but still defend itself and charge the survivors for murder.

The Nigerian police probably have worse records but believe me, if you had committed this type of crime in Naija and gave us this 'I thought she was an intruder' story???? ***I laff in Naija accent***** by the time our Police men shove one of your prosthetic legs up your *advertiser censored*, you will not realize when you start spilling out the whole truth on what actually transpired that night.

For now, you have been granted bail until June, you now have more time to improve on your story. The South African police also now have more time to further scuttle this murder case and probably look for an ex-Police officer on death-row to come lead this investigation.

It does look like several ‘powerful’ elements in South Africa (and the sports branding world) want you to become a free man. You are one of those international-inspirational icons that make the ‘rainbow’ nation look good. Mandela is already too old and expiring. Another thing you've got on your side is that you are not a fire-brand critic of President Jacob Zuma or the ANC and so they may let you off the hook.

Trust me, if Julius Malema's wife or girlfriend was mysteriously shot and killed in a town 100 kilometres away from Julius' house, he (Julius) would still be arrested and charged for her murder...they'll probably find him guilty.

Stanley Nwabia (struggling blogger)

Stanley does have many points, and I'm still laughing!

It's fairly funny--the absurdities that many saw immediately.

And it's good that it hints (in its penultimate paragraph) at the deep politics that may eventually play out. People should prepare themselves for that, but it could be a year or so till then.