General Discussion Thread #2

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But how often is it an herbal remedy is shot up, especially by a performance-enhancement newbie? Why such a large stock? Did not know his particular condition
affects sexual performance in one so young. All we have to go on is familial bent towards recklessness, history of possessiveness in his and other relationships, an assumption of a sense of entitlement most of us would probably suffer should our efforts reach such pinnacle of success , and the unstated armchair psychoanalysis that in terms of women, he might harbor a deep seated insecurity no amount of athletic prowess, related riches or fame, could assuage.

At this stage in the legal course of he case against OP, none of this, and, clearly none even if proven as discrete fact, goes to a proof of, much less whisper of guilt(as to intent or motive).

But as an absolute amateur, I have to say, adds to the gestalt of guilt many of us sense, but in the absence of evidentiary fact, need to chalk up to a "feeling," and of course expect and hope he case, when it is finally prosecuted, will never rest upon.

I'm guessing more will be revealed to bring more meaning to what so far is mere guesswork.
 
I have never seen a herbal remedy in injection form. There are many herbal remedys that are detrimental to health and can make one fail a drug test and athletes are told to stay away from them. Weird he would do this
 
There is such varied terminology when it comes to clothing. I know that a vest in the USA is what we in the UK call a waistcoat, but I understand a vest as a sleeveless top. It may be casual daywear, or an undergarment. I'm not sure what is meant by a "sweat top", nor "sweat pants" (doesn't sound very nice to my ears!). Maybe what I would call a track suit?

One thing that is very important here is the distinction between the bathroom and the toilet. I know that "bathroom" is a euphemism used in the USA for toilet. In the UK we use "toilet" for both the appliance and the room that contains it, but we never say bathroom if we mean toilet. I don't know if it's the same in RSA, perhaps Carol will advise.
Don't know if this has been answered already but anyhow, we also don't use the term sweat pants..its track suit top or pants, hoodie if the track suit top has a hood. If someone is in the bathroom, we would refer it to being in the loo. (Loo being slang for toilet). I might add that OP set up is very usual, I have never been into a house where the loo is separated from the rest of the bathroom with a door like his is.
 
Rant begins...



I do on the other hand notice, much to my delight, that the "Canonisation Meme" - referred to in that long post #122 many pages ago - is very much alive and well, as Reeva fast approaches sainthood, only a week and a bit after her untimely death.
"A classy, high character woman trying to make a positive impact in the world, didn't hear anyone say a bad thing about her", etc, etc. Gimme a break, she was a model and a minor celeb, not Mahatma Gandhi. Besides which, the whole canonisation thing is utterly repugnant, as it carries a sub-text that blowing the brains out of a more flawed specimen of womanhood might not have been quite so unacceptable. Double Ugh.

quite a rant indeed. as they say in Hollywood, you cant kill a dog and you cant kill a blond. Im not white, so obviously I dont hold the world view of the sacredness of blonds. But, I am a woman and frankly, I can actually visualize the horror of 1- getting into a fight with a lover and he goes for blood, or 2- having a psycho for a lover who's so insane, he'll pump you full of lead cause he thinks you might be an intruder... even though HE invited you over to stay. And, this truly is what makes my heart sink about this woman i dont know, that i can actually picture the horror.

Either way, no matter the particulars, two things are true: the girl's dead and the boy killed her. the high minded trial to determine intent (like thats what really matters) is simply a testament to how far we've fallen as a ppl.
 
But how often is it an herbal remedy is shot up, especially by a performance-enhancement newbie? Why such a large stock? Did not know his particular condition
affects sexual performance in one so young. All we have to go on is familial bent towards recklessness, history of possessiveness in his and other relationships, an assumption of a sense of entitlement most of us would probably suffer should our efforts reach such pinnacle of success , and the unstated armchair psychoanalysis that in terms of women, he might harbor a deep seated insecurity no amount of athletic prowess, related riches or fame, could assuage.

At this stage in the legal course of he case against OP, none of this, and, clearly none even if proven as discrete fact, goes to a proof of, much less whisper of guilt(as to intent or motive).

But as an absolute amateur, I have to say, adds to the gestalt of guilt many of us sense, but in the absence of evidentiary fact, need to chalk up to a "feeling," and of course expect and hope he case, when it is finally prosecuted, will never rest upon.

I'm guessing more will be revealed to bring more meaning to what so far is mere guesswork.

Your post motivated me to wonder about the self-esteem and sexuality of amputees and I found this link:

http://www.360oandp.com/health--wellness-intimacy-as-an-amputee.aspx

I think he said that was the second night she had stayed over in a row. But was it?

It looks as if she went home to the Myers household each night and phoned them about 10pm so Mr Myer could meet her half way.

Could it be that this could have been their first night of lovemaking and it all went terribly wrong, she rejected him and he also found the facebook message from Francois Hougaard to make matters worse? He could even be sadistic in sex and I say that because of his behaviour later. I hope the State go through his computer to see what type of videos he watches as they did in the Joanna Yeates case.

That so-called herbal remedy is homeopathic so we need to find out whether it has to be injected or not. What were the syringes for then?
 
Do Steroids Cause Uncontrollable Rage?

February 24, 2013

Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius has been charged with pre-meditated murder in the shooting death of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. At his bail hearings, South African investigating officer Hilton Botha testified that he found two boxes of drugs that could be testosterone, and needles in Pistorius' bedroom.

PISTORIUS DENIES MURDER: Pistorius claims that he mistakenly killed Steenkamp when he fired four shots into a locked bathroom, hitting his girlfriend three times after thinking she was a burglar. The police claim that screams were heard after the first shot. Pistorius claims that the drugs found in his bedroom are herbal remedies. The world's most famous disabled athlete tested negative for drugs twice at the London Olympics last year on Aug. 25 and Sept. 8, 2012.

WHY SOME ATHLETES TAKE STEROIDS: Competitive athletes often take testosterone derivatives, also called steroids, because they help them recover faster from intense workouts so they can do more intense workouts sooner. This makes them stronger and faster. When a person takes a hard workout and exercises through the muscle burning, he damages his muscles. The next day, muscle soreness can prevent him from taking another intense workout for several days. However when he takes testosterone derivatives, he often recovers so fast that he can take another intense workout on the next day.

IS THERE SUCH A CONDITION AS STEROID RAGE? Some studies show that males who take steroids are more likely to be violent and to use other drugs (Am J Public Health. 2008;98 (12): 2185- 7). However the majority of men who use anabolic steroids do not commit violent acts (Sports medicine (Auckland, N.Z.) 1996;22(6): 367-90). Yet there is strong evidence that some men do become violent when they take steroids and have acted completely out of their normal behavior (Arch Gen Psychiatry) February 2000;57(2): 133-140).

HOW LONG ARE STEROIDS DETECTABLE? Steroids can be detected in a person's body from one week to over a year after use. AndroGel, a testosterone cream that is taken by rubbing on the skin, can be detected for up to five days after use. The most popular steroid, nandrolone, can be detected for up to a year. Injectable testosterone, that is suspected here, can be detected for up to three months. Police will need to get a court order to test him right away if they want to prove that he took steroids. Other forms of testosterone include testosterone propionate (detectable for up to two weeks), testosterone undecanoate (one week) and clenbuterol (four days).

***********************************************

Reports from DrMirkin.com

http://www.drmirkin.com/public/ezine022413.html
 
A snippet from SA Networks. Long read and nothing to do with the case, just the mood of SA

Long read but different perspective of the OP case:-

OSCAR, WHY?

I don’t really understand why, but the Oscar Pistorius case really disturbs me.. Disturb isn’t really the right word.. More like emotionally draining.
I tried to look at it from an objective angle, and realise that it’s not really one specific facet of the horrific tale that’s so intensely upsetting, but rather a combination of everything that is entailed.
Firstly; the way that the general public reacted to the whole thing is deeply disconcerting. Within a few hours after the news broke of Reeva Steenkamp’s death; jokes concerning both Reeva and Oscar went viral on social networks like twitter and facebook. A fake Nando’s advertisement stating: “We don’t shoot our chicks. We just flame grill them” spread like wild-fire. The Nando’s franchise publicly denied that the advert was their doing, and shared their sympathies with both the Pistorius and the Steenkamp families.
Jokes like “Roses are Red, Violets are Glorious, don’t try to surprise Oscar Pistorius” was shared between colleagues by lunch-time.
Really? One person lost her life, the other one’s life has been altered to such an extent that absolutely nothing can save him from inconsolable grief and fear. This kind of reaction from the general South African public indicates our inability to show empathy, and (much worse), our absolute lack of respect for another person’s life.
It is no wonder that the murder- and rape rate is so horrendously high in our country, since it would seem that even the average person’s emotions have become desensitized by the crime and hatred in our country. It appears as if the average South African do not know where to draw the line; do not know what is socially acceptable and what is not.
Just to make myself clear; it is NOT acceptable to joke about a person that has been shot to death. I fail to see how it can be construed as humour when an innocent woman is hit by three consecutive bullets, slumping forward, tasting her own blood. I fail to see how you can laugh when that same woman spent the last few seconds of her life in absolute agony, lying in a pool of her own blood. This is NOT funny, it is appalling.
Secondly; I am completely flabbergasted at how disloyal and capricious our nation is, portrayed perfectly by the fact that most people openly attacked Pistorius the moment that they heard of the news. Irrespective of the fact that there have been no ruling by the court, and most of the information is hear-say by “sources that cannot be named”, since the police are not allowed to give out any information before the court has reached a verdict.
A few months ago, just about every one of us sat in front of our television screens, all teary eyed and patriotic. For a moment, it seemed as if there might be a glimmer of hope shining in the “Proudly South-African” farce.
Yet, that same man was thrown for the dogs the moment the news broke of the shooting. It’s strange; it seems as if the people actually want Pistorius to be guilty. As if the story would be so much more sensational if our hero came to a fall, in every sense of the word.
One of the many titles of articles that have been published thus far, cried : “Golden boy loses his shine”. I don’t understand this tendency to enjoy another person’s extreme pain and humiliation. Even if he is guilty, what does it say about YOU that you find so much gratification when another person comes to a fall?
Thirdly, I can only lower my head in despair and disappointment at the accusations concerning racism and religion that is once again being thrown around. Will this never get old?
When I read the comments posted on the articles that have been posted on the internet, you can almost smell the intense and absolute hatred between the people of different race and cultures. A large number of black men agreed unanimously that Oscar should be raped repeatedly in prison, and that he should suffer a slow and painful death.
Is this what it comes down to? After everything that our country has gone through, is this the level of our emotional and intellectual intelligence? Let’s sort this little problem out by raping the guy (really?) over and over again and then torturing him to such an extent that his only salvation is death. This says a lot about why South-African prisons are among the most dangerous and infamous in the world.
It is NOT normal or right to hope that a man gets raped repeatedly when he is suspected of murder. This is NOT how you deal with anyone, even a criminal. This school of thought is disgusting and barbaric, it is NOT socially acceptable! This is just another symptom of how sick and desensitized our society have become because of the intense hatred and fear, jealousy that is so heartbreakingly prominent in our society.
There was also a journalist who dedicated an entire article to deface Christianity and the general concept of religion, apparently because of the well-known fact that Pistorius is an Evangelist. I fail to see what Oscar’s religion has to do with whether he is guilty or not.
Did he, at any point in time, try to justify his acts by means of his spiritual beliefs? No. Have the Church ever said that it is physically impossible for a person that believes in God, to commit a crime of any sort? No.
Oscar’s religious beliefs are unequivocally irrelevant in this case. If that is your method of reasoning, you might just as well have targeted his star-sign. WHY is there such an overwhelming hatred between people of different religions and people who profess not to believe in anything at all?
Why can we not respect each other enough by embracing neutrality when something does not concern you personally?
So you don’t believe in God? I do. But I have no interest to judge you or to force my opinions on you, because your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) have absolutely no meaning in my life. Why do atheists then have this insatiable abhorrence towards religion as a whole? If you don’t believe in it, why do you care? I personally do not believe in Buddha, but I have enough respect for the next person in line to be a Buddhist, as it does not affect me personally in any way.
Lastly, am I the only person that hopes so fervently that Oscar is NOT guilty? It may be naïve, but I have an intense need to believe that it was all a terrible mistake. I cannot bear to believe that a person who carried so much of South-Africa’s pride and joy, could commit such a crime that reeks of outright cold-heartedness. It literally breaks my heart.

Oscar is twenty-six years old, and up until last Thursday, he was living the dream; because of passionate determination and exceptionally hard work. Tonight he sleeps in a cell, with only the cold hard reality of the horrific situation that he is trapped in to keep him company.
Reeva Steenkamp’s parents and family huddled around an open grave today, hearts and lives torn apart by the senseless death of a woman whose beauty was evident inside and outward.
One’s life ended in a cold second of eternal anti-climax. The other’s life ripped apart, without any hope or consolation to hold on to, guilty or not.
“We don’t shoot our chicks, we just flame grill them.”
It chills my soul.
Reeva’s father Barry Steenkamp, told The Mail on Sunday that even though their family is struggling to accept their daughter’s death, they do not harbour a sense of hatred in their hearts.
Of Pistorius he said: “He must be going through things that we cannot even know. We ask God every day to help us find a reason that something like this must have happened to Reeva. She was the most beautiful, kind girl in the world.”
I lost one of my super-heroes (ironically) on Valentine’s day..
I say the following with the utmost respect, and if it appears melodramatic, then it is only because of my lack of words to convey my sentiments with adequate clarity and depth; Mr Barry, if you can manage to keep hatred at bay, even after such a tragedy has struck you and your loved ones, then I salute you. My only comfort is that if Reeva was brought up by such wise and loving parents, then she was on the right path, and is ultimately now in a better place. I wish, with all my heart that the rest of our nation could learn a thing or two from you.
Written by Nilea.
 


Reeva seems to have had so many warnings at least from Hougaard and Cecil Myers and even told a friend that he was getting too possessive.

I hate to say this but were they both more in love with their superficial image - what the publiciity would do to their careers - getting their photos into the media - he dating a beautiful blonde model who was a law graduate on his arm when he attended awards ceremonies, etc and she dating a world athletic icon who had attracted a lot of media attention? But when it got down to it, spending a night at home revealed that they were not at all compatible.
 
A snippet from SA Networks. Long read and nothing to do with the case, just the mood of SA

Carol, the writer of that piece is a very passionate South African who seems to have been in awe of Pistorius as he was his hero. However, while some men can be very successful in sport or career, they can be failures as far as intimacy is concerned. Just because OP may be able to attract women due to his status for a date at a celebrity event, it does not mean that he can hold their interest in a relationship when it gets to the stage of intimacy and expressing true loving feelings. With the background of OP, with the divorce when he was young, with his poor relationship with his father and his mother dying when he was 16yo, OP could have a deep down fear of abandonment from women which prevents his getting close to women emotionally. After all, he has devoted his life to achieving academic success, but how many successful long-term relationships has he had?

Dating for nine weeks is one thing but when it comes to spending an evening at home with your date, is another. Reeva seems to have been able to express her love very easily, but did she see OP's "warts and all" that night before or after she called Cecil Myers to tell him that she would be staying overnight as she was tired and did not feel like driving home? Did Reeva stay only to resolve a small difference they had had earlier in the night over dinner which later escalated into a full-blown fight later on or were they already in a conflict and it was OP who demanded at 10.30pm that she text Cecil Myers to tell him she would be staying overnight because OP had already prevented her departure by locking the bedroom door and hiding the key? Her original intention was not to stay the night according to Cecil Myers. Why was the bedroom door locked otherwise? Surely not for security reasons when he claims to have been sleeping with balcony door and bathroom window open?
 
:at:
I was decent, ta.
Her father could hardly talk.
Had video recreations of the 2 versions.

Waiting for that Aussie show. "Bladerunner: My Lover My Killer"
Shane, is that the 1h version or just a snip? I'm so annoyed that my iPad wont support adobe, just watched a short 10 min version on news24. Carte Blanche will put the entire show up as there are apparently interviews with friends, family and others aboutmhis character.
 
:at:
Shane, is that the 1h version or just a snip? I'm so annoyed that my iPad wont support adobe, just watched a short 10 min version on news24. Carte Blanche will put the entire show up as there are apparently interviews with friends, family and others aboutmhis character.

Carol:
It was 12 min.
but I see there are other video segments under it, like "Oscar's millions"
 
Carte Blanche story last night, interview with Reeva parents. I havent watched as my headset is bust but i believe its quite an insight.

http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/Article.aspx?Id=4677&ShowId=1

Oscar Pistorius
Date: 24 February 2013 07:00
Producer: Sophia Phirippides
Presenter: Derek Watts
Devi Sankaree Govender
Researcher: Amalia Christoforou
Susan Comrie
Chwayitisa Futshane
Show: Carte Blanche

Oscar Pistorius, national hero, bionic man, dubbed the "blade runner" led an apparent perfect life. Despite being born without fibula and having his legs amputated at the age of 11 months, he was an inspiration even in childhood.

The charismatic Pistorius made his mark in history as the first amputee to win an able-bodied world track medal and later the first double-leg amputee to participate in the Olympics.

But the events that occurred at his home on Valentine's Day 2013 left a nation stunned and the world reeling. He had shot and killed his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

Derek went to Reeva's family home in Port Elizabeth the day after her memorial service, where her heartbroken parents spoke frankly to us about their tragic loss.

June Steenkamp (Reeva's mother): "I had a phone call at half-past-seven that morning. And the man said to me, 'Is your... what's your name?' And I said, 'It's June.' And he said: 'Do you have a daughter?' And I said, 'Yes.' And he said: 'Reeva?' I said, 'Yes.' He said, 'There's been an accident and she's been shot.' And I said, 'All I want to know now is if she's alive or is she dead.' And the man said he was with the police, and he said, 'I'm sorry I have to tell you, but I don't want you to go out and read in the papers... she's dead.'"

Reeva, who would've turned 30 this year, was first seen with Oscar at the SA Sports Awards in November 2012.

[SA Sports Awards, November 2012] Reeva Steenkamp: "Oscar is a very, very sexy boy. But he doesn't do it in an arrogant, obnoxious way... he does it in a very classy, understated [way]. He always has a good, simple suit on... Ja, he's a gentleman."

A law graduate and active supporter of women's rights, she was also set for her own brand of stardom, with a promising modelling career. She had taken part in a reality TV show, screened on SABC last Saturday, where South African audiences got a poignant glimpse of a life lost.

Derek Watts (Carte Blanche presenter): "You watched it?"

June: "I watched it... I had to."

Barry Steenkamp (Reeva's father): "I never watched the whole thing."

Derek: "Watched a bit?"

June: "...just to see her laughing again, you know, and alive."

Derek: "Barry, how do you cope?"

Barry: (cries)

June: "He doesn't cope; he can't cope."

Grief stricken her family and friends said goodbye to her at her memorial service in PE on Tuesday.

June: "She was the most amazing, amazing... The people stood up and spoke about her, the wonderful person that she was. That was truly, truly wonderful."

At the same time at the Pretoria Magistrates Court, Oscar Pistorius was attempting to restore his reputation and stay out of jail.

Devi Sankaree Govender (Carte Blanche presenter): "It's Day 1 of Oscar Pistorius' bail application here at the Pretoria Magistrates Court. News crews from around the world have descended here, but so too have women's organisations. The one behind me is calling an end to abuse of women and children."

Woman 1: "Reeva justice... 'No,' to abuse of women!"

The legal teams braced for battle as the State opposed bail by initially charging Oscar Pistorius with premeditated murder - a schedule 6 offence. Criminal attorney Renier Spies explains what the implications of this would have been for Oscar.

Renier Spies (Criminal attorney): "We in South Africa know murder and premeditated murder. The difference between the two is basically the one planned, the other was not. For purposes of a bail hearing, if you are charged with a premeditated murder, it's just much more difficult to get bail."

The greater implication is that if Oscar were to be found guilty of premeditated murder, after his trial, he could get life and would only be eligible for parole after 25 years. If found guilty of murder, the minimum sentence is 15 years.

Renier: "So, in both instances, for someone like Oscar, it is basically a death sentence."

Devi: "Over the last week-and-a-half many theories have been bandied about in the media across the world, as to what really happened on that night. Did Oscar shoot Reeva thinking that she was an intruder? Or did he shoot her in a fit of jealous rage? Questions are also being asked about the actual sequence of events."

Dr David Klatzow (Forensic scientist): "You would need to do proper, full forensic investigation of the body; the angles of the wounds; the nature of the wound to see if it was close, distant... Those are all vital."

Forensic investigator, David Klatzow says that these are just the early stages of the investigation.

Dr Klatzow: "The track through the body gives you an idea where the shooter was standing. A full post-mortem is absolutely mandatory and nothing should be taken for granted."

The NPA's Medupe Simasiku was able to shed some light on speculation surrounding the cricket bat, which the defence says Oscar used to bash down the toilet door when he realised Reeva may be inside.

Devi: "The cricket bat - was the cricket bat bloodied or not?"

Medupe Simasiku (Spokesperson: NPA): "As per information revealed in court yesterday, yes, but remember it is part of the investigation, it is part of the ballistics and forensic information that is still awaited to make sure that whatever we now give to court during trial will be fair and square."

Oscar's affidavit painted a picture, of a vulnerable man paranoid about safety - very different to a raging, gun-crazy murderer, as some had portrayed him.

[Oscar's affidavit] During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors...

Devi: "It's here at the exclusive Silver Woods estate in the east of Pretoria where it's alleged Oscar Pistorius shot and killed his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on that fateful night."

This is probably the last footage ever taken of Reeva Steenkamp and was captured on the Silver Woods estate CCTV security cameras. Carte Blanche obtained this leaked video exclusively. Here we see Reeva arriving just before 6pm on the evening of the 13th of February, and Oscar arriving 10 minutes later. What happened after this only Oscar knows.

Based on the plans of Oscar's house, we created a 3D graphic representation of the location of the crime scene. When the police arrived at his home in the early hours of February the 14th , this is what they found in the bathroom: two cell phones and Oscar's gun on the bathroom mat, as well as a cricket bat by the basin. The toilet door was bashed open.

This is Oscar's version of events:

At around 3am he got up to close a balcony door and the blinds, leaving Reeva in bed, and the room in darkness. After closing the door, he heard a noise from the bathroom, grabbed his gun from the left side of his bed and walking on his stumps, made his way to the bathroom, shouting a warning to the alleged intruder, then told Reeva to call the police. In the bathroom, he saw an open window and assumed the intruder was hiding in the toilet, which has a separate door. He heard movements inside the toilet and opened fire. He then moved backwards out of the bathroom, still keeping his eye on the entrance. When he reached the bedroom he realised Reeva wasn't in bed and rushed back to the bathroom, calling her name. He tried to open the toilet door and couldn't. He went back to the bedroom, opened the balcony door again and shouted for help. Then he put on his prosthetic legs and tried to kick down the toilet door. At this point he got the cricket bat and broke into the toilet, where he found Reeva slumped over the toilet seat still alive.

Renier: "His case is I thought I was in danger, I thought that Reeva was in danger, and in defence of myself and Reeva I shot at a possible intruder and/or intruders thereby killing by mistake the love of my life."

Devi: "Is it okay for me to suspect that there is somebody in my bathroom and shoot at them through the bathroom door?"

Renier: "No, it's not okay. In my opinion it doesn't mean that because I'm acting in
self-defence I can take a cannon to a fist fight to summarily fire, without first establishing for fact, is overstepping the boundaries of private defence."

Oscar says that soon after he shot Reeva he called the emergency services. And from the surveillance footage we obtained, we clearly see that Netcare arrives at 3:42am, followed shortly thereafter by several police cars around 4am.

Now, this is the State's version of events.

Renier: "The State's case is he shot Reeva in a fit of rage, thereby murdering her."

The State alleges that Pistorius was not on his stumps, but had put on his prosthetic legs, which indicates premeditation, and that he had followed Reeva into the bathroom. This means that Pistorius would have had to be much closer to the toilet door - 1.5 metres away - with his back to the basins to match the trajectory of the bullets. The forensic investigation will look at a lot more than just the ballistic evidence.

Dr Klatzow: "If somebody is shot, as the bullet exits there will be a spray of brain or tissue or blood, which will give an imprint on whatever it strikes. You will be able to see that and interpret that. All of those things are capable of being interpreted to build up a three dimensional picture of what actually happened there."

What seems consistent in both versions is that Reeva was in the toilet at the time of the shooting. Her injuries showed that she was hit on the right side of her head, above the ear, on her right elbow, which broke her arm, and on the right side of her hip. The autopsy revealed that her bladder was empty.

On Day 2 of the bail application, the State's case seemed to fall apart as the investigating officer, Hilton Botha, crumbled under cross-examination and conceded that there was nothing at the scene to negate the defence's version of events. He also admitted that he hadn't worn foot covers on his shoes.

Renier: "The investigating officer concedes that he contaminated the scene. The mere fact that there is forensic evidence, which was gathered by the State does not guarantee it's admissibility or its reliability."

Another embarrassing revelation was that Oscar's forensic team, and not the State's, had found a spent bullet in the toilet bowl. And although police said Oscar had not made calls to emergency services based on his phone records, it was later revealed that they hadn't checked all his phones. The NPA, wasn't impressed with these developments.

Medupe: "Its a challenge and we believe that in any systems challenges will come. And, as they come, definitely, we will not let them influence anything of this process."

On Day 3 of the hearing, investigating officer Hilton Botha was removed from the case. It had emerged that he faced unrelated criminal charges - seven counts of attempted murder in connection with an alleged shooting at a taxi in 2011. The Pistorius case has now been assigned Lieutenant General Vinesh Moonoo and Gauteng Commissioner Mzwandile Petros.

Medupe: "We will have to make sure that we prove our case beyond reasonable and I believe its actually kind of... very early to say we are failing. We are not failing; we are confident in what we're doing."

On Friday afternoon, Chief Magistrate Desmond Nair ruled that Oscar Pistorius would be granted bail of a million rand.

Chief Magistrate Desmond Nair: "I have come to the conclusion that the accused has made a case to be released on bail."

His trial is set for the 4th of June.

Barry: "It's only Oscar, Reeva that know the true story. And all I want, whether it will help me or it won't, he must just come out with the honest truth."

June: "You can't come to terms with this, this is going to be forever."

Barry: "I'd like to thank the whole world for everything, and the feelings they've given to us."
 
And although police said Oscar had not made calls to emergency services based on his phone records, it was later revealed that they hadn't checked all his phones. The NPA, wasn't impressed with these developments.

See, I think that reflects far more badly on the defence. Why wouldn't they hand the phone straight over?
 
See, I think that reflects far more badly on the defence. Why wouldn't they hand the phone straight over?

IMO the defence was devious and did not hand the phone or the bullet or casing which they found in the toilet! I also wonder sbout the steroids. Were others removed by brother first? Was he just being smart? And the booties! They must have watched him looking for errors. Or was Botha corrupt and bribed? What about the overseas accounts on the computer stick?
 
Don't know if this has been answered already but anyhow, we also don't use the term sweat pants..its track suit top or pants, hoodie if the track suit top has a hood. If someone is in the bathroom, we would refer it to being in the loo. (Loo being slang for toilet). I might add that OP set up is very usual, I have never been into a house where the loo is separated from the rest of the bathroom with a door like his is.

Thanks, it sounds like what we call a track suit too then (we would say track suit bottoms rather than pants - pants are pretty much always underwear here) We say hoodie too, or the generic "fleece" for any kind of top made of fleece fabric.

And yes, we say "loo" in the UK too. In fact we have many more slang names for the toilet, ranging from the twee to the forthright :) I agree that IME the toilet is either openly in the bathroom, or in an entirely separate room. I suppose with the arrangement here, one person can have a private pee while the other is brushing their teeth, say. On the other hand, you would disturb someone having a bath if you wanted to go through to use the toilet. Still, there are probably plenty of other toilets in that house, one for any eventuality!
 
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