General Discussion Thread #2

[shane13]

Previous newspaper cover:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/blog/2013/02/pistorius-bail-hearing-he-said-shes-dead/


3:00 AM: 3 shots, screams, silence

3:10 AM: 3 more shots

If earwitness account is right on screaming and timeline, it implies she was conscious when first shot, and perhaps dead or unconscious when shots into toilet door occurred.

over to you

 

[natsound]

the ABC 20/20 show is up at their site. 5 parts,

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/fast-times-oscar-pistorius-speed-18634449 part 2 I think

It was good. One thing they said, I wrote here some days ago. The Prosecution did not mind at all that he would get out on bail.

Let's not fool ourselves. We can't expect a prosecutor to tell a reporter that it's a detriment to them that he's out on bail.

It is of no advantage to the prosecution that OP is out on bail. As commentators on Piers Morgan said the night he was released, OP's bail changes the entire landscape of the time leading to trial. Defense no longer has to rush to go to trial. OP is out and can spend time with his PR firm, strategizing on ways to win sympathy (holding private memorial services, for example). It's simply going to be easier to build a defense.

 

[21merc7]

Previous newspaper cover:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/blog/2013/02/pistorius-bail-hearing-he-said-shes-dead/


3:00 AM: 3 shots, screams, silence

3:10 AM: 3 more shots

If earwitness account is right on screaming and timeline, it implies she was conscious when first shot, and perhaps dead or unconscious when shots into toilet door occurred.

over to you

Have to admit gut reaction at first was "overkill" and he displayed rage. BUT, I have nothing but murders the last years to be aware of, my job.

However, we were fed stories of arguments, yelling, and a gun happy trigger finger. (And a bat that was perhaps not used on the person.)

I know that media gets things wrong a lot. It is part of my job. My gut says he raged. My legal/logical mind says wait for evidence. Media is ALWAYS WRONG! (Get tired of explaining to the real journalists.) I also saw today, in the 20/20 videos that the #1 defense attorney had what I call the "Cheshire Cat Grin". I know that to be a tell sign....................................

Still on the fence. I, too, can see that happening as an accident, hence I don't purchase guns. As much as friends insist I need them for protection. Wasp spray, hair spray, lighters if both hands can work - but I doubt that - shoot flames, hammers, crow bars, phone chords, knives, and every danged thing you can have handy can be used against an attacker. Just as you think someone can use them to hurt you, turn that thought to how you can use everything against the intruder. Paranoia 101. Got to go listen to wwoz.org now.

Getting paranoid again.

 

[shane13]

Let's not fool ourselves. We can't expect a prosecutor to tell a reporter that it's a detriment to them that he's out on bail.

It is of no advantage to the prosecution that OP is out on bail. As commentators on Piers Morgan said the night he was released, OP's bail changes the entire landscape of the time leading to trial. Defense no longer has to rush to go to trial. OP is out and can spend time with his PR firm, strategizing on ways to win sympathy (holding private memorial services, for example). It's simply going to be easier to build a defense.

I already wrote a week ago, why the Pros. might want him out on bail--and will not repeat.

I already wrote a week ago, how Botha's on the stand concession, which contradicted himself and evidence, supports this contention--and will not repeat details.

 

[shane13]

Have to admit gut reaction at first was "overkill" and he displayed rage. BUT, I have nothing but murders the last years to be aware of, my job.

However, we were fed stories of arguments, yelling, and a gun happy trigger finger. (And a bat that was perhaps not used on the person.)

I know that media gets things wrong a lot. It is part of my job. My gut says he raged. My legal/logical mind says wait for evidence. Media is ALWAYS WRONG! (Get tired of explaining to the real journalists.) I also saw today, in the 20/20 videos that the #1 defense attorney had what I call the "Cheshire Cat Grin". I know that to be a tell sign....................................

Still on the fence. I, too, can see that happening as an accident, hence I don't purchase guns. As much as friends insist I need them for protection. Wasp spray, hair spray, lighters if both hands can work - but I doubt that - shoot flames, hammers, crow bars, phone chords, knives, and every danged thing you can have handy can be used against an attacker. Just as you think someone can use them to hurt you, turn that thought to how you can use everything against the intruder. Paranoia 101. Got to go listen to wwoz.org now.

Getting paranoid again.

Well RE bat, if earwitness account is mostly correct, it implies that that strike, if it occurred, did not kill her or render her unonscious.

Well now we know where you are. Great jazz there.

 

[21merc7]

Well RE bat, if earwitness account is mostly correct, it implies that that strike, if it occurred, did not kill her or render her unonscious.

Well now we know where you are. Great jazz there.

I agree about bat and yelling.

Jazz would be nice if they were not doing Celtic hour, going to have to go to youtube right now..... Why do all NPR paying stations think I want to hear this? When did this show begin on oz? Today??? ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH! Sorry O/T.

 

[natsound]

I'm not sure if the prosecution flapping their jaws on TV is a good idea at all. I feel like they should keep quiet to maintain the integrity of the case. Cases that are tried in the media generally don't go well.

 

[21merc7]

I'm not sure if the prosecution flapping their jaws on TV is a good idea at all. I feel like they should keep quiet to maintain the integrity of the case. Cases that are tried in the media generally don't go well.

Nat;

Can you link or is it local? Just asking, b/c 20/20 and Dateline mean nothing. Those shows are in America, but used to be good - in America - no contacts in SA. (And have gotten less source worthy and more like reality shows that I do not watch over the years.)

I haven't noticed anything, but I am way behind.

What I have seen is what attorneys of both sides do when t.v./internet is involved. They say the case is sound, for defense and prosecution. Until the evidence comes in, ie... the forensics, all of them. Then both side get quiet, for a long time, until trial.

 

[natsound]

Nat;

Can you link or is it local? Just asking, b/c 20/20 and Dateling mean nothing. Those shows are in America, but used to be good - in America, no contacts in SA. (And have gotten less source worthy and more like reality shows that I do not watch over the years.)

I haven't noticed anything, but I am way behind.

What I have seen is what attorneys of both sides do when t.v./internet is involved. They say the case is sound, for defense and prosecution. Until the evidence comes in, ie... the forensics, all of them. Then both side get quiet, for a long time, until trial.

A woman from prosecutors office talked on 20/20, and a man from prosecutors office spoke on Dateline. The comments were very reassuring for prosecution, but I'm still wary of the strategy.

 

[shane13]

Oscar's tweets until Feb. 14.
https://twitter.com/OscarPistorius

He noted his new Foundation, movie recommendations, and there's a religious statement from "Armor of God":

"When you start focusing on a loving God who’s given everything & stop focusing on what seems to be going wrong, you will see breakthrough."

If only...

 

[Zinn]

to shout "Get out" at an "intruder" in a small toilet area with no window when you are standing outside the door. How would the intruder have gotten out of his house? Perhaps in his panic he just shouted whatever but the story just doesn't...hang together for me.

It would make more sense if he had retreated from the entire bathroom and stood outside of IT yelling the same thing so the intruder could have gotten out the same way he had come in. Also, from what I know dangerous intruders in SA don't hide from the homeowner in a toilet closet-they confront them with heavy artillery and don't usually come alone-yet there obviously couldn't have been a large armed unit hiding in that tiny toilet.

The affidavit and story seem focused on his hyper-sensitive fear of "intruders" and having his home broken into. Yet, he goes to bed with not only an open bathroom window but with an open balcony door. When I saw the picture of this balcony, right over the garage, it seemed all too easy for someone to gain access to it, perhaps even from the top of a tall SUV. Plus, he knows workers have left ladders in his yard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21516664

It does appear all the second floor rooms had the same type balcony so I'm not sure which was his-the front one is the largest but all are at the same height.

Does this make sense? This very fearful man goes blissfully to sleep with his balcony door wide open. Then he wakes, goes out on balcony, carries fan, hears noise etc and shoots because of this extreme fear which wasn't extreme enough for him to close his damn doors and windows before going to sleep. It makes me wonder whether they ever really went to "bed" or whether they were arguing and awake the whole time. Because that part of the story makes no sense given his extreme sensitivity which is required to "explain" his actions with the gun but doesn't comport with his actions prior to retiring which of course are not discussed except in support of his story-got up to close door...but a fearful guy would never have gone to sleep with the door and window open to begin with, especially with those ladders in the yard.

I'm in agreement that it makes little sense he'd yell at an intruder to get out while feeling vulnerable and trapped in his bedroom and then proceed to fire blindly through the door. If it's true that he yelled at someone to get out, perhaps he was yelling at Reeva to come out of the locked bathroom or to get out of his house. Purely speculating.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[shane13]

20/20 show is now on youtube, as well as ABC's own site.

Still no Dateline show online.

Tmow is the ID show--but IIRC ID (Investigations Discovery) channel was doing that with NBC.

Is the ID doc ""Beauty & The Blade Runner," the same as the NBC Dateline show that aired yesterday?

TIA

 

[CountryGirl]

20/20 show is now on youtube, as well as ABC's own site.

Still no Dateline show online.

Tmow is the ID show--but IIRC ID (Investigations Discovery) channel was doing that with NBC.

Is the ID doc ""Beauty & The Blade Runner," the same as the NBC Dateline show that aired yesterday?

TIA

Dateline probably won't be online due to the ID Discovery/NBC show tomorrow. The Jodi Arias portion of last night's Dateline is online but no link to the Oscar Pistorius segment. I'm sure there was an agreement to wait until after Sunday's special on IDD.

 

[shane13]

Dateline probably won't be online due to the ID Discovery/NBC show tomorrow. The Jodi Arias portion of last night's Dateline is online but no link to the Oscar Pistorius segment. I'm sure there was an agreement to wait until after Sunday's special on IDD.

thank you

Jodi segment any good?

 

[whiterum]

Previous newspaper cover:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/blog/2013/02/pistorius-bail-hearing-he-said-shes-dead/


3:00 AM: 3 shots, screams, silence

3:10 AM: 3 more shots

If earwitness account is right on screaming and timeline, it implies she was conscious when first shot, and perhaps dead or unconscious when shots into toilet door occurred.

over to you

Witness says one shot ( evidence one casing found in passageway at bathroom entrance) Do you think he shot through the toilet door from there first and it hit the wall ( spent bullet in toilet bowl). Witness then a woman screaming, he has to shut her up so he moves into bathroom for a better aiming position. Witness then more shots (evidence three casings found on bathroom floor) shoots three times hits his target, then silence. Pure speculation only.

What this woman heard certainly fits in with the evidence .

 

[CountryGirl]

thank you

Jodi segment any good?

As someone who hasn't followed the case closely or watched much of it up until now, yes I thought it was good.

 

[shane13]

Witness says one shot ( evidence one casing found in passageway at bathroom entrance) Do you think he shot through the toilet door from there first and it hit the wall ( spent bullet in toilet bowl). Witness then a woman screaming, he has to shut her up so he moves into bathroom with a better aiming position. Witness - then more shots- (evidence three casings found on bathroom floor) shoots three times hits his target, then silence. Pure speculation only.

What this woman heard certainly fits in with the evidence .

Well, I thought 1 casing was said to be found in the bedroom.

I think his rage occurred in the bedroom, and he may have first hit her with the bat, (or else first shot her without the bat), she screaming, fled into bathroom and then collapsed. Or else he could have rendered her unconscious (or dead) in the bedroom and carried her to the toilet for his scheme. I don't think they can prove if it was locked or not after he smashed it--and fiddled with it if need be.

 

[shane13]

He had that 10 or 17 minutes to plan the ending/coverup. It will be interesting if they find (via his phone) if he called someone before the witnesses said they heard the final shots--atty, family or friend?

I think not, and hope not, else he's implicated others.

JMOOC

 

[Lola]

this is gonna be a long wait 'til trial.

 

[shane13]

I think the shooting after the silence helps prove the coverup, after she was unconscious or dead.

And RE the earwitnesses, here the police did an excellent job of going to houses further away than just the adjacent ones.

And if witnesses heard 1 or more shots than were fired, I think that can be explained--semi-automatic fire or echoes.

Echoes more likely to have been heard IMO further out than right nearby.

So it all fits.