General Discussion Thread #2

[Estelle]

Hi!

I think you have brought up some good points. My reading was that there were two iphones found in the bathroom plus the iphone OP had on him that made the call for help. So I think that is the three iphones they are referring to.

But you are right - the telecom will only know about SMS/calls that went through the phone phone. Deleted calls still show up (at least on my phone bills! )

But it can't track messages (or deleted messages) on iphone/ipad social apps, like facebook, Skype, twitter, etc.

So more investigation needed on those phones and the apps on them.

If they were the 3 iPhones, they were referring to, the last call was made at 8pm on 13 February which contradicts what OP clained that he phoned netcare and police on 14 February. it also contradicts what Cecil Myers claims that Reeva phoned him at 10.30pm on 13 February to tell him not to meet her as she was stayng the night.

 

[cityslick]

Hi!

I think you have brought up some good points. My reading was that there were two iphones found in the bathroom plus the iphone OP had on him that made the call for help. So I think that is the three iphones they are referring to.

But you are right - the telecom will only know about SMS/calls that went through the phone phone. Deleted calls still show up (at least on my phone bills! )

But it can't track messages (or deleted messages) on iphone/ipad social apps, like facebook, Skype, twitter, etc.

So more investigation needed on those phones and the apps on them.

True, although those particular services would have a record if anything was made on them. Not sure how subpoena power works in SA to get those records. I think cell carriers can still track 'activity' on a device via tower even if they can't tell specifically what the activity is.

 

[Patticake]

I've quoted only a portion of the story. Much more [and illustrations] at the link. This is from the 20/20 program:

http://www.businessinsider.com/here...storius-may-have-killed-his-girlfriend-2013-3


Here's A Re-Enactment Of How Oscar Pistorius May Have Killed His Girlfriend

When Oscar Pistorius goes to trial in June, the question won't be if he shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, it will be how, and why. Pistorius' defense claims that the runner mistook Steenkamp as a burglar and shot her through the bathroom door in defense.

ABC's 20/20 reconstructed a model of Pistorius' bedroom to show viewers what could have happened that night.

ABC's Dan Abrams walks viewers through the replica with Amy Robach. Abrams first points out that the doors in Pistorius' room were open to the outside and that neighbors heard the couple fighting:

Prosecutors believe Steenkamp then flees to the bathroom which is down a hallway. Pistorius then puts on his prosthetics which are at the foot of the bed.

And then comes around to the left side of the bed, and grabs his gun from underneath, allegedly not realizing Steenkamp was not in the bed at the time:

Then Pistorius walks down the hallway to the bathroom, allegedly following Steenkamp.

snip

.

 

[Patticake]

Oh, and here's the link to watch the whole 20/20 program:

http://abcnews.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VDKA0_8ovt382t/2020-301-the-fast-times-of-oscar-pistorius

Not sure if it's been posted.

.

 

[soozieqtips]

If they were the 3 iPhones, they were referring to, the last call was made at 8pm on 13 February which contradicts what OP clained that he phoned netcare and police on 14 February.
it also contradicts what Cecil Myers claims that Reeva phoned him at 10.30pm on 13 February to tell him not to meet her as she was stayng the night.

He didn't say she called him. He said she sent a text.

Mr Myers told South Africa’s City Press:
“Then Reeva sent the [text] message, 'Hi guys, I’m too tired.
It’s too far to drive. I’m sleeping at Oscar’s tonight. See you tomorrow’.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-image-of-Reeva-Steenkamp-alive-emerges.html

 

[cityslick]

He didn't say she called him. He said she sent a text.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-image-of-Reeva-Steenkamp-alive-emerges.html

The article said no activity after 8PM, which I take to mean any activity, not just phone calls.

The cellphone records showed the last activity on the handsets was at about 8pm on 13 February, the night before the Paralympian shot dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

Cell providers should have a way of detecting if there is any activity on the phone (call, text, internet browsing) even if they can't specifically detect the type of activity.

 

[21merc7]

The article said no activity after 8PM, which I take to mean any activity, not just phone calls.

The cellphone records showed the last activity on the handsets was at about 8pm on 13 February, the night before the Paralympian shot dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

Cell providers should have a way of detecting if there is any activity on the phone (call, text, internet browsing) even if they can't specifically detect the type of activity.

Exactly.

Some providers can provide text messages, but only via subpoena. Doubt that info would be available yet, at least it would not be here, it takes some time for subpoenas to go through, info to be retrieved, and then mailed to the interested party.

Right now they are only looking at activity, and you are correct, it would show if texting or surfing happened at all.

 

[natsound]

To complicate the cell phone issue further, this is an exerpt from an article dated
2/21/13:

"Botha said police found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, adding that none had been used to phone for help after the shooting. But Roux claimed the defence team had another phone in its possession that the police had failed to request. "Why did you not come to us and ask for Pistorius's cellphone number?" he asked.

Roux also took him to task for failing to check Pistorius's claim that he phoned the Netcare hospital at 3.20am."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders

So there are five phones total.

What's the deal with the phones laying in the bathroom anyway? Perhaps the entire alleged argument took place while OP was standing in the doorway to the bathroom. He confronted RS as she stood on the shower mat, and shot at her. She then dropped her phone, ran into the toilet room, locked the door, and an enraged OP fired the additional shots. But then why would two phones be on the mat?

I know little about firearms, but I don't understand how one bullet slug can be in the hallway/passageway (presumably dropped from the gun??) and at least one other in the toilet bowl (couldn't have dropped from the gun??).

 

[cityslick]

To complicate the cell phone issue further, this is an exerpt from an article dated
2/21/13:

"Botha said police found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, adding that none had been used to phone for help after the shooting. But Roux claimed the defence team had another phone in its possession that the police had failed to request. "Why did you not come to us and ask for Pistorius's cellphone number?" he asked.

Roux also took him to task for failing to check Pistorius's claim that he phoned the Netcare hospital at 3.20am."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders


What's the deal with the phones laying in the bathroom anyway? Perhaps the entire alleged argument took place while OP was standing in the doorway to the bathroom. He confronted RS as she stood on the shower mat, and shot at her. She then dropped her phone, ran into the toilet room, locked the door, and an enraged OP fired the additional shots. But then why would two phones be on the mat?

I know little about firearms, but I don't understand how one bullet slug can be in the hallway/passageway (presumably dropped from the gun??) and at least one other in the toilet bowl (couldn't have dropped from the gun??).

It's more feasible to me that she would already be in the bathroom if an argument rather than being chased to the bathroom due to the complication of getting the gun under the bed as well as putting the legs on.

Was it an actual bullet slug in the hallway or a casing? The one in the toilet could of been the one that missed RS and landed there via richocet? Or perhaps went through and landed in the toilet?
So there are five phones total.

 

[natsound]

It's more feasible to me that she would already be in the bathroom if an argument rather than being chased to the bathroom due to the complication of getting the gun under the bed as well as putting the legs on.

Was it an actual bullet slug in the hallway or a casing? The one in the toilet could of been the one that missed RS and landed there via richocet? Or perhaps went through and landed in the toilet?
So there are five phones total.

I think I need to look up the definitions of bullet casing, cartridge, and slug.

 

[Estelle]

He didn't say she called him. He said she sent a text.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-image-of-Reeva-Steenkamp-alive-emerges.html

OK I agree with you I should have said she sent him a SMS message. But the point of what I am trying to say is that it contradicts what Cecil Myers said. IMO he had no need to lie so what's going on? Are they only talking about phone messages or did they include text messages? Surely they included both. If they are not there, I would suggest that OP deleted them and that they can resurrect and trace those messages.

Otherwise, Cecil Myers can make a statement to verify it. So can Hougaard if he did send her a Facebook message that night.

 

[Estelle]

To complicate the cell phone issue further, this is an exerpt from an article dated
2/21/13:

"Botha said police found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, adding that none had been used to phone for help after the shooting. But Roux claimed the defence team had another phone in its possession that the police had failed to request. "Why did you not come to us and ask for Pistorius's cellphone number?" he asked.

Roux also took him to task for failing to check Pistorius's claim that he phoned the Netcare hospital at 3.20am."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders

So there are five phones total.

What's the deal with the phones laying in the bathroom anyway? Perhaps the entire alleged argument took place while OP was standing in the doorway to the bathroom. He confronted RS as she stood on the shower mat, and shot at her. She then dropped her phone, ran into the toilet room, locked the door, and an enraged OP fired the additional shots. But then why would two phones be on the mat?

I know little about firearms, but I don't understand how one bullet slug can be in the hallway/passageway (presumably dropped from the gun??) and at least one other in the toilet bowl (couldn't have dropped from the gun??).

It is interesting that there were 5 phones altogether but the results of investigation into only three are known so far.

My guess is that RS had fled to the bathroom with two mobiles to call for help in case one was flat while perhaps he was getting his gun. While she was trying to phone, OP came in and she fled to the toilet without the mobiles because he could have said, "Put those phones down or I will shoot you!"

 

[Patticake]

This is an excerpt:


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-admitted-anger-issues-1743483

Piers Morgan reveals Oscar Pistorius admitted to having 'anger issues' just weeks before he shot girlfriend dead

Piers Morgan has revealed Paralympian Oscar Pistorius admitted to having “a temper issue” just three months before he shot his girlfriend dead.

The gold medallist opened up about his problems with anger after being interviewed for Piers Morgan Tonight.

The runner, 26, appeared on the CNN show after he was slammed by Piers on Twitter for accusing a competitor of cheating in a post-race interview.

But he admitted off-camera that he had anger issues that he was trying to resolve.

Recalling their interview, Piers said: “He couldn’t have been nicer or more humble. I feel shocked and saddened by what’s happened.

“Off air, he said he knew he had got it all wrong. He was aware he had a temper issue and was trying to stop making that kind of mistake, as he put it.

snip

.

 

[Lola]

everything this family does, has me wondering about the agenda...

Oscar Pistorius family row over South Africa crime

 

[Sue May]

Hi everyone, I have been following this story since the beginning but am new to posting on this thread, hope you don't mind me butting in.

I've been thinking about the 'shot, shot, shot, silence for 17 minutes, then shot, shot, shot' again and I wondered if he maybe chased her into the bathroom, in an uncontrollable rage, shot her as she cowered in the toilet - with the toilet door open. Then realised what he'd done, so he called his brother/father/lawyer etc for help (17 mins between shots). They said "make it look like an accident". So he shot another 4 holes through the door, but then picked up the loose bullets and shell casings and then bashed in the door with the cricket bat to make it look like he had tried to save her.

Or alternatively, maybe she was already in the bathroom getting ready to go home because they had had a horrible fight, when he came in brandishing his gun. So she runs in the toilet as he shoots her (with the door open). Makes the phone calls (17 mins), then he concocts the story, on the advice of someone else, about intruder, door being locked etc. Perhaps this is how the rogue casing ended up in the passageway?

Anyway, just a thought.

Phew, got to say tho' this is a shocker, I cheered him on during the Olympics! Was in awe of him. Still can't believe it. What a *advertiser censored* to throw it all away (and he had it all) in a few seconds of passion/anger/lust/jealousy.

 

[cityslick]

Hi everyone, I have been following this story since the beginning but am new to posting on this thread, hope you don't mind me butting in.

I've been thinking about the 'shot, shot, shot, silence for 17 minutes, then shot, shot, shot' again and I wondered if he maybe chased her into the bathroom, in an uncontrollable rage, shot her as she cowered in the toilet - with the toilet door open. Then realised what he'd done, so he called his brother/father/lawyer etc for help (17 mins between shots). They said "make it look like an accident". So he shot another 4 holes through the door, but then picked up the loose bullets and shell casings and then bashed in the door with the cricket bat to make it look like he had tried to save her.

Or alternatively, maybe she was already in the bathroom getting ready to go home because they had had a horrible fight, when he came in brandishing his gun. So she runs in the toilet as he shoots her (with the door open). Makes the phone calls (17 mins), then he concocts the story, on the advice of someone else, about intruder, door being locked etc. Perhaps this is how the rogue casing ended up in the passageway?

Anyway, just a thought.

Phew, got to say tho' this is a shocker, I cheered him on during the Olympics! Was in awe of him. Still can't believe it. What a *advertiser censored* to throw it all away (and he had it all) in a few seconds of passion/anger/lust/jealousy.

Probably not likely, how would he be able to control when and where the bullets go after he shoots them if there were more than 4 shots? There should of been multiple bullet shots on the wall as well, which he would have no way of explaining as 3 of them are accounted for on RS. Not only that, but there were be blood evidence in more places than just the toilet if he took her out, put her somewhere, then proceeded to shoot the door then break down the door. It also seems like all of that would of taken longer than 17 minutes.

Second scenario has the same issue, how do you account for the 4 extra holes (along with the casings) that go through the door (he already shot 4 with the door open).

 

[natsound]

Probably not likely, how would he be able to control when and where the bullets go after he shoots them if there were more than 4 shots? There should of been multiple bullet shots on the wall as well, which he would have no way of explaining as 3 of them are accounted for on RS. Not only that, but there were be blood evidence in more places than just the toilet if he took her out, put her somewhere, then proceeded to shoot the door then break down the door. It also seems like all of that would of taken longer than 17 minutes.

Second scenario has the same issue, how do you account for the 4 extra holes (along with the casings) that go through the door (he already shot 4 with the door open).

Either we're going to hear of more bullet holes in the house, or the neighbor that heard the six-shot sequence was mistaken. Strange that a neighbor heard six shots, but attorneys only discussed four in the bail hearing.

 

[Sue May]

Probably not likely, how would he be able to control when and where the bullets go after he shoots them if there were more than 4 shots? There should of been multiple bullet shots on the wall as well, which he would have no way of explaining as 3 of them are accounted for on RS. Not only that, but there were be blood evidence in more places than just the toilet if he took her out, put her somewhere, then proceeded to shoot the door then break down the door. It also seems like all of that would of taken longer than 17 minutes.

Second scenario has the same issue, how do you account for the 4 extra holes (along with the casings) that go through the door (he already shot 4 with the door open).

Well, I meant that the 17 minutes was just for the 'phone call to someone and for them to suggest the scenario. It could explain the 'shots/17 min gap/shots' Also he would not need to take her out of the toilet if she was already laying on the floor - the door did not even need to be closed for him to fire the 'fake' shots. And he could pick up the extra casings and bullets, it's been done before, many times. And he did move her anyway.

I'm just thinking out loud really, trying to visualise what might have happened. :innocent:

 

[seattlechiquita]

Hi everyone :wave:

Do we know if it is customary to get updates from law enforcement? Will we know anything about ballistics, autopsy, etc? Or will we have to wait until after trial?

 

[Estelle]

Surely the Prosecution will keep quiet about evidence now until the trial.