General Discussion Thread #2

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Hi everyone :wave:

Do we know if it is customary to get updates from law enforcement? Will we know anything about ballistics, autopsy, etc? Or will we have to wait until after trial?

We won't get any concrete evidence until trial but we will get "leaks" until then, like in the cell records. So we will have something to play with but it will be mostly speculation until then. Police have not confirmed the cell reports too.
 
The sequence of screaming, shots fired then 17 minutes of silence then more shots is very damning. And points to premeditation and coverup.

The coverup (to become the bail affidavit) was concocted by OP during thE 17 minutes possibly with others he called. This means that the last actions he took were part of what had just been concocted. Thus the final shots were part of the bogus alibi and RS was either dead or dying--silence--before the final set of shots. So she either staggered in there and collapsed, or else he carried her (dead or dying) there and placed her there for the final coverup sequence. Much may depend I have written on the lock mechanism of the toilet door.

I also wrote that the sound wave physics of the earwitnesses' recollection--greater distance--makes it more likely for echoes to have been heard. And also that automatic or semi-automatic gun fire often has the # of shots confused by earwitnesses. It is the sequence and the screaming and the silence that are more important than the # of shots fired because of the above.

Finally the more I think about it the more I see the Prosecution was brilliant while coming off as the opposite at the bail hearing.

Botha was mushroomed and mushroomed the Court in turn. He was removed from the case perhaps when something definitive was found and the new Det., in charge IIRC? was not called to testify about any new and definitive findings. Why not? The precise timing of the removal is key as the higherups knew of his charges and could have removed him earlier (or later).

Perhaps earlier reports--head bashed in with bat, shot in hip in the bedroom--to the media were either incorrect or perhaps it is common there for police to give incorrect info to get that publicized?

Anyway to me the top paragraph here is essential to to see the final shooting as coverup for what was already done.

JMOOC
 
Like you, Shane, I have also stated this before in the first thread on this case.

Therefore, IMO, the times that Pictorius used this other phone would be crucial in determining this. What exact time did he call his brother, friend, lawyer or what time did someone else do this? All their phones would have to be subpoenaed too.

SEQUENCE: 2-3am Shouting Screaming shot shot shot 17 minutes to call friend, brother, lawyer PREMEDITATE COVER UP shot shot shot through bathroom door Call Netcare Call police Carry Reeva downstairs Security guard arrives

What can we add to that?
 
The Pistorius dynasty. They own and control many companies in several types of business.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/128145494/The-Pistorius-dynasty

Amazing wealth and therefore power!

Henke is youngest son and is 48yo but looks 68yo! Is he the only one who had children? If so, they might inherit the lot one day!

I think because of their wealth, they think they are above the law - at least in South Africa!
 
Hello everyone, please bear with me. Never joined a forum of any kind before, so I am learning the ropes. I have two things regarding Oscar's case that niggle away at me.

1. The Valentine's Day present. Oscar makes mention of this in his Affidavit, stating Reeva gave him the gift saying not to open it till after midnight. To me this implies that she was not intending to stay overnight with him, otherwise she would have given him the gift on the 14th not the 13th. It also implies to me that if she was indeed intending to go home that night she did not intend to spend Valentine's Day with Oscar, as she would have given him the gift when she met up with him on the actual day. Just wondering if this caused friction between them.....where was she going to spend Valentine's Day? Could it have been Oscar who sent the text to Reeva's "step Dad"...did he lock her in the bedroom and take her phone away........ Just a thought.

2. The 17 mins gap that's constantly mentioned. Who timed this gap? It is rather specific "17 mins" - not a quarter of an hour, or 20 mins.
 
Hello everyone, please bear with me. Never joined a forum of any kind before, so I am learning the ropes. I have two things regarding Oscar's case that niggle away at me.

1. The Valentine's Day present. Oscar makes mention of this in his Affidavit, stating Reeva gave him the gift saying not to open it till after midnight. To me this implies that she was not intending to stay overnight with him, otherwise she would have given him the gift on the 14th not the 13th. It also implies to me that if she was indeed intending to go home that night she did not intend to spend Valentine's Day with Oscar, as she would have given him the gift when she met up with him on the actual day. Just wondering if this caused friction between them.....where was she going to spend Valentine's Day? Could it have been Oscar who sent the text to Reeva's "step Dad"...did he lock her in the bedroom and take her phone away........ Just a thought.

2. The 17 mins gap that's constantly mentioned. Who timed this gap? It is rather specific "17 mins" - not a quarter of an hour, or 20 mins.

Good first post Lou.
Interesting ideas in #1.

RE #2, I found 1 paper whose header said 10 minutes for the gap. there were several wtnesses.
 
Hello everyone, please bear with me. Never joined a forum of any kind before, so I am learning the ropes. I have two things regarding Oscar's case that niggle away at me.

1. The Valentine's Day present. Oscar makes mention of this in his Affidavit, stating Reeva gave him the gift saying not to open it till after midnight. To me this implies that she was not intending to stay overnight with him, otherwise she would have given him the gift on the 14th not the 13th. It also implies to me that if she was indeed intending to go home that night she did not intend to spend Valentine's Day with Oscar, as she would have given him the gift when she met up with him on the actual day. Just wondering if this caused friction between them.....where was she going to spend Valentine's Day? Could it have been Oscar who sent the text to Reeva's "step Dad"...did he lock her in the bedroom and take her phone away........ Just a thought.


Welcome Lou, yes this giftgiving on the 13th was strange. I read that they both had other arrangements with their friends for the 13th but cancelled them at the last minute to have a quiet night at home. No mention of OP's gift for her. It definitely did look to me also that they were busy elsewhere on 14th. Reeva was due to give a talk about women and violence on the Friday night (15th) so maybe she had to prepare or practise it on the 14th.

I have also wondered whether they had an argument about the court case with the previous girlfriend neighbour which was due in court on 20th February.

If they had been drinking since 6pm by 10.30pm they could have both been drunk so she could not drive home or she wanted to leave but OP prevented her by locking her in the bedroom as OP said bedroom was locked. The SMS message to Cecil Myers could have been sent from OP's mobile either by him (or her).
 
Psychological Profiling

“I knew in my heart something was wrong with him”. This is what nearly every victim of a psychopath has felt, usually early on in the relationship. The over-the-top flattery. The quick pace of the relationship and demands for instant commitment. The lies and inconsistencies. The callousness towards others. The disregard for social norms. The sense of superiority (absolute narcissism), without having much to show for it or justify it. The aimlessness and lack of responsibility. The random oscillations in mood and behavior, to exert power over others. The demands for isolation from loved ones and friends. The sexual deviancy. The control and possessiveness. There are always very disturbing signs in the psychopathic bond, signs that we tend to ignore or rationalize until the toxic relationship, like a disease, takes over to destroy our lives.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/the-list-of-psychopathy-symptoms/

Who does this sound like?
 
Welcome Lou, yes this giftgiving on the 13th was strange. I read that they both had other arrangements with their friends for the 13th but cancelled them at the last minute to have a quiet night at home. No mention of OP's gift for her. It definitely did look to me also that they were busy elsewhere on 14th. Reeva was due to give a talk about women and violence on the Friday night (15th) so maybe she had to prepare or practise it on the 14th.

I have also wondered whether they had an argument about the court case with the previous girlfriend neighbour which was due in court on 20th February.

If they had been drinking since 6pm by 10.30pm they could have both been drunk so she could not drive home or she wanted to leave but OP prevented her by locking her in the bedroom as OP said bedroom was locked. The SMS message to Cecil Myers could have been sent from OP's mobile either by him (or her).

I am sending this to this if I am doing this properly.

I am on the fence at the moment re Oscar's guilt. You are right that if they had been drinking from 6-10.30 they could both have been drunk. If Oscar is telling the truth then maybe he was still suffering from the alcohol when he woke up to take in the fan from the balcony. On the other hand I find it hard to believe the first shot killed Reeva, because I think it would be the head shot that did that. Surely Oscar would have heard the body slump if Reeva was rendered unconscious, or, if not unconscious, she would have called out. The fact that one bullet was supposed to have gone through her hand and head, makes me wonder if she knew the gun was directed at her head and instinctively put her hand to her head for protection.

One last thing, this bullet/casing or whatever you call it that was found in toilet bowl. With all the inferences about the possible corruption in this case, would the Defence make it known there was another bullet/casing found. Would this not weaken their case.........or not. I am perplexed???????
 
Were there only 3 bullet wounds (hand, head and arm which was broken)? Am I missing a 4th one?

I'm not so sure about hearing a body slump, especially if he was firing the gun in rapid succession.
 
Were there only 3 bullet wounds (hand, head and arm which was broken)? Am I missing a 4th one?

I'm not so sure about hearing a body slump, especially if he was firing the gun in rapid succession.

I believe there was a wound at the hip, arm, hand and head (hand and head made with one bullet).
 
There is much, much, much more at the link.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/world/africa/pistorius-image/index.html

Not everyone surprised at Oscar Pistorius' murder charge

The South African athlete's spectacular fall from grace shocked many who were inspired by his remarkable story of overcoming adversity to become an Olympian and a national hero.

But not everyone.

"Here, I think, you had a troubled athlete," said South African sports journalist Graeme Joffe. "Not so much this incredible role model for the rest of the world -- no question about that -- but deep down, this was a troubled athlete."

Pistorius case brings South Africa gun culture to global spotlight

Joffe is one of the few South African journalists who has been critical of Pistorius. He said the PR machine behind the man they call Blade Runner has all but made him untouchable.

"So many incidents have happened and they've been well documented over the last five or six years with Oscar Pistorius," said Joffe, who worked at CNN in the 1990s. "These kinds of cases have disappeared."

The South African media has long adored Pistorius, some would say even protected him, by minimizing his problems. Yet, some of his friends and colleagues have cast doubt on the idyllic image of Pistorius portrayed by the press.

-snip-

"It's like we were waiting for something like this to happen," said Marc Batchelor, a South African soccer player who socialized with Pistorius in South Africa's glamor and sports circles.

Batchelor described Pistorius as someone who "had a trip switch," quick to get angry and fight. Pistorius caused "a lot of problems," he said.

Batchelor said Pistorius once wanted to fight him because the track star thought his girlfriend was cheating on him. Pistorius, who Batchelor described as drunk, started yelling and swearing over the phone.

"He said he's not scared. If I want to come down there, he knows where I am, and blah blah blah. But I left it," Batchelor told CNN.

-snip-
.
 
There is much, much, much more at the link.


.

"...Batchelor said Pistorius once wanted to fight him because the track star thought his girlfriend was cheating on him. Pistorius, who Batchelor described as drunk, started yelling and swearing over the phone...."

Thanks Patty. Confirmation of what I wrote and hypothesized here: OP had an intolerance of alcohol (and caffeine).

Note that it was at a party (alcohol likely imbibed) that OP attacked the woman with the door. And I believe it was said that alcohol (wine?) was immbibed at the Valentine's eve dinner.

I know psyche stuff (psychobabble to many) rules the day. But allergy-addiction is often the cause.

Update:
the article, http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/world/africa/pistorius-image/index.html , has this:
"...in February 2009 when the sprinter said he was nearly killed when the speedboat he was driving hit a submerged object. He was airlifted to a hospital and underwent facial reconstruction surgery. Yet, at the time, doctors downplayed the injuries as minor.
Three days later, local news reported police found alcohol bottles inside the submerged boat.
"We are investigating the possibility that the consumption of alcohol had played a role in the boating accident," said police spokeswoman Maria Mazibuko..."
 
Reeva Steenkamp's family speaks for the first time since Oscar Pistorius' release, tonight on AC360°at 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. ET.

.
 
Does anyone have a link to the ID channel show that aired on Sunday??
 
Once again, this is an excerpt. More of the article at the link.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...as-fatally-shot-may-be-evidence-in-the-trial/

Oscar Pistorius’ Home, Where Girlfriend Was Fatally Shot, May Be Evidence in the Trial

Oscar Pistorius‘ luxury home in Eastern Pretoria, where he allegedly shot and killed his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, may be used as evidence against him when his trial on charges of premeditated murder start, ABC News has learned.

Crime scene cleaners say they have been informed by the South African Police Service that no one will be allowed into the house as it will remain a crime scene up until the hearing starts.

Eileen De Jager, owner of a private company, Crime Scene Clean-Ups, said police have told her that the trial judge and other court officials may want to visit the house to clear up any misunderstandings that might arise when the case is heard.

Police officials refused to confirm or deny that, saying it might jeopardize their case if they show their cards

They have, however denied claims by Pistorius’ private forensic team that they’re being prevented from examining the door through which Pistorius allegedly shot Steenkamp.

Investigators hired by the Paralympic athlete have told a South African TV station that they’ve yet to be allowed access to the door, which was removed by police four days after Steenkamp’s death.
snip

.
 
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c4#/video/world/2013/03/06/ac-dnt-griffin-pistorius-dark-side.cnn

I don't think this one has been posted before but in this video from CNN they say that now that OP is out of jail his bail conditions have changed from what they had been announced to be. Now OP will not be required to check in with the police twice a week, instead the police will go to check on him only "occasionally".

I'm really astonished at the special treatment OP continues to get.
 
3rd Degree | Oscar Pistorius - YouTube


Good SA inv. show, "3rd degree" on OP. Stuff I've not seen elsewhere.

If genuine (and not simulation), has boat (crash) footage showing alcohol bottles found. And also has interview of OP on the door slamming party incident. If he is lying--and IMO he is--he is damn good!
 
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c4#/video/world/2013/03/06/ac-dnt-griffin-pistorius-dark-side.cnn

I don't think this one has been posted before but in this video from CNN they say that now that OP is out of jail his bail conditions have changed from what they had been announced to be. Now OP will not be required to check in with the police twice a week, instead the police will go to check on him only "occasionally".

I'm really astonished at the special treatment OP continues to get.

Saw that.
Facilitates all kinds of possibilities, should OP and team be into that.

I was pondering the 17 minute gap. Much time for OP alone, or with others, to conjure something up. I'd bet they considered saying someone else did it, but the great security there precluded this. Else he might have shot himself to say an intruder did it all.

Even though there should be massive evidence against him, a single judge will rule, not a jury, so anything is possible. Think about the bail granting again. At start of the hearing they said this is rarely granted in #6 Murder. And here he didn't deny killing her. But he got bail from the judge. Now the supposed rules of his bail are being eased or dropped.

Well the minipoll I diid here had most of us say he will get a light sentence.
 
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