General Discussion Thread #4

[Pisto_lius]

Possible Love Triangle Twist in Pistorius Case

2013-06-07
According to Yahoo News, there may have been a love triangle influence on the tragic and allegedly accidental shooting of Reeva Steenkamp at the Silver Lakes apartment of world-famous athlete, Oscar Pistorius. A source confided in the media that the beautiful Steenkamp began dating Pistorius just three days after breaking up with Francois Hougaard.

Francois Hougaard is a key player for the Springboks and Blue Bulls rugby teams. He had a tumultuous relationship with Steenkamp which lasted for four months before she started seeing Pistorius. During this time, the pair often broke up and made up. Soon after Steenkamp’s death, it emerged in the media that some of the messages discovered on Steenkamp’s iPad on the day she died were from the rugby player. There have been rumors to the effect that Hougaard may be called as a witness during the upcoming Pistorius trial.

Two weeks before Steenkamp joined Pistorius at the South African Sport Awards, she had been Hougaard’s date at a wedding. A friend who was present at the wedding said that Steenkamp and Hougaard had looked every bit the happy couple on that day though Steenkamp had mentioned that they were trying to take things easy.

Hougaard knew about Steenkamp’s new relationship but they continued to enjoy each other’s company. The friend added: “I talked to Reeva and she said Francois was a real nice guy…” It appears that the two remained quite close and Pistorius was aware of their friendship.

Lorinda Voges, spokesperson for Francois Hougaard, refused to comment about the exact nature of the relationship between her client and the late model. She would not share any information about the interactions between Hougaard and Pistorius. When asked about the rumors that Hougaard had been called to testify at the trial, Voges denied that her client would be a part in the legal process.

http://www.publicnewshub.com/possible-love-triangle-twist-in-pistorius-case/

Same story - other source:
http://storify.com/Tribe_News/the-love-triangle-rumour-resurfaces

 

[whiterum]

I expect this report will disappear from the www very quickly like many others


Pistorius father “stole money from Oscar”, says a friend



----------------

OT - Sorry, but unfortunately I haven't time for discussion in the moment, but I'll be back

Seems OP despite all the animosity was very accommodating towards his dad sure he even allowed him to store his ammunition in his safe

 

[shane13]

Seems OP despite all the animosity was very accommodating towards his dad sure he even allowed him to store his ammunition in his safe

Another thing Botha said he would be charged with.
Did higher ups stop that too?

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-court-17-minutes-1720257

Just curious if the one witness discussed in the article above is the only source we have for the 17-minute gap between shots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21514428

But the article above says nothing about a 17-minute gap.

"We have the statement of a person who said after he heard gunshots, he went to his balcony and saw the light was on. Then he heard a female screaming two-three times, then more gunshots," Detective Botha told the court.

And here is an interesting outtake from this article, regarding the people who heard the arguing:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...night-reeva-steenkamp-was-killed-8640799.html


The prosecution must provide a motive to have him convicted of premeditated murder, and part of that case relies on two witness statements saying the couple were arguing. But, in Pistorius Trial: The Key Questions, on Monday at 10pm, those statements from neighbours living 300 metres from the athlete's home, are called into question. Technology used to measure the noise impact of new train lines suggests that voices arguing could not be heard from 300 metres away, but only from a distance of about 50 metres.

I say all of this because I find it hard to believe there would be a 17-minute gap between shots. Why on earth would OP shoot her, then wait 17 minutes, then shoot her again, then make emergency calls, carry her down the stairs, etc? It seems the neighbors have slightly different versions of what they heard.

Thank you for the links. I found the comment in The Independent that Botha arrived an hour after the murder very informative. That gave Pistorius, his brother Carl and his Lawyer around an hour (depending on their travel distances) to construct an alibi. When did the ambulance arrive? As it was a crime scene, and she was dead when it turned up, there was nothing they could do, would they have left immediately or waited for the police? The point being, were Pistorius et al left alone at the house with time enough to create a semi-plausible alibi, alter the evidence, ie retrieve and remove information from the elusive mobile.

 

[whiterum]

Another thing Botha said he would be charged with.
Did higher ups stop that too?

No doubt about it, with an excuse as lame as that he should have been laughed out of court.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Thank you for the links. I found the comment in The Independent that Botha arrived an hour after the murder very informative. That gave Pistorius, his brother Carl and his Lawyer around an hour (depending on their travel distances) to construct an alibi. When did the ambulance arrive? As it was a crime scene, and she was dead when it turned up, there was nothing they could do, would they have left immediately or waited for the police? The point being, were Pistorius et al left alone at the house with time enough to create a semi-plausible alibi, alter the evidence, ie retrieve and remove information from the elusive mobile.

A part of the timeline I noticed:

03.20 am - neighbour (female friend and lawyer, daughter of Stander ?) came to the house after she received a call after 03:00 am of OP she should come immediately

03.20 am - OP called father Henke + sister Aimee

??? am - Stander and unknown doctor arrived

03.30 am - father Henke + sister Aimee arrived

03.42 am - paramedics and first police officers arrived

03.55 am - OP called friend Justin Divaris

~ 04.00 am - further police officers arrived

04.15 am - Hilton Botha arrived

??? am - brother Carl + lawyer Kenny Oldwage + locksmith arrived

~ 04.30 am - friend Justin Divaris + girlfriend Samantha arrived
(at this time OP wasn't no longer in the house but separate by police in the garage)

~ 05.30 am - OP is arrested and later brought to hospital for blood and DNA tests

 

[Pisto_lius]

addendum to timeline:

A paramedic who was among the first on the scene after the shooting of Reeva Steenkamp said he entered Oscar Pistorius’s house and saw a woman’s body near the stairs, covered in blood.

He said

“There was a lot of activity at the house. The police were moving in and out and there were private security guards outside.

“When we arrived a woman, who never told us her name, met us in the driveway and showed us through the door. [maybe the female neighbour ?]

Oscar Pistorius, dressed in shorts and a T-shirt, was just standing there looking at the body. His right leg and arm were covered in blood."

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cou...of-blood-up-the-stairs-1.1471721#.UbHiree-2Sp

 

[Estelle]

Possible Love Triangle Twist in Pistorius Case

Same story - other source:
http://storify.com/Tribe_News/the-love-triangle-rumour-resurfaces

There are some interesting dates in the article Pisto mentioned above. It appears that Reeva was double dating in December and January.


The love triangle rumour resurfaces

A friend has revealed that Reeva Steenkamp started seeing Oscar Pistorius just three days after breaking it off with rugby player, Francois Hougaard.

The source, a friend of Hougaard's, told Afrikaans daily newspaper, Beeld, that Reeva was dating Francois on and off from October 2012 to January 2013, and that they remained close friends.

Reeva, Oscar saam 3 dae ná sy en Bul uitmekaar is
Reeva Steenkamp het van Oktober 2012 tot vroeg in Januarie 2013 glo steeds "aan en af" met Francois Hougaard uitgegaan. Iemand in Hougaar...

Looking at Pistorius' timeline from December 2012, it seems he was already enjoying time with Reeva in December.

On 19 December he tweeted: "Great fellowship and dinner tonight with @reevasteenkamp @AimeePistorius @gi_myers @TheFrisco_kid @ElanLea @iamfomo and @AlexPilakoutas. "

And on 23 December he tweeted this pic with the caption: "Last night's braai (bbq) with @TheFrisco_kid @BeatrixLeopold @reevasteenkamp @ElanLea and Sylah "

Last nights braai (bbq) with @TheFrisco_kid. @BeatrixLeopold @reevasteenkamp @ElanLea and Sylah. pic.twitter.com/pe0PP25H

Oscar Pistorius@OscarPistorius

According to the source, Reeva appeared with Oscar Pistorius in public for the first time at the South African Sport Awards just two weeks after attending a wedding with Hougaard.

"Francois and Reeva made a cute couple at the wedding. I talked to Reeva and she said Francois was a real nice guy, but said that they were taking things slow," the friend revealed.

Hougaard's spokesperson, Lorinda Voges, said her client did not want to comment on his relationship with either Reeva or Oscar. Francois also denied rumours that he had been called as a state witness in the case against Pistorius.

Oscar Pistorius had another woman

Witnesses claim the pair met a number of times earlier this year, and regularly exchanged flirty text messages.

The Paralympic sprinter returns to court – with another blonde beauty in his corner.

In a shock new twist, insiders now claim Oscar Pistorius was seeing a stunning blonde, Erin Stear, at the same time he shot girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. Just days before Oscar’s latest court hearing, police quizzed party girl Erin, 25, about her relationship with the murder-accused.

Witnesses claim the pair met a number of times earlier this year, and regularly exchanged flirty text messages. The South African sprinter, 26, is on bail for the Valentine’s Day murder of 29-year-old model Reeva, whom he claims to have mistaken for an intruder when he shot her in his home.

While Erin denies having an affair with the world’s most famous double-amputee, Oscar was reportedly meeting up with the fashionista and socialite behind his girlfriend’s back. “Erin met Oscar when Reeva was his girlfriend,” a source tells a UK newspaper. “They hit it off and met up again after messaging each other. She was really excited about getting to know him.”

But detectives are investigating claims that he canoodled with Erin at a party in Cape Town and met up with her behind Reeva’s back.

Erin is one of several female friends of Pistorius being investigated by police. Sources also revealed he used FOUR mobiles to keep in touch with pals.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ius-police-quiz-blonde-pal.html#ixzz2VblrThn2

Cheering for Oscar Erin’s been vocal in her support of the Paralympian on Twitter. “People point fingers too quickly @OscarPistorius. Innocent until proven guilty! Have some empathy!” she tweeted on the day of the shooting. She also revealed that she had her “fingers crossed” during his bail hearings

http://womansday.ninemsn.com.au/truelifestories/8667875/oscar-pistorius-had-another-woman

It appears to me that both Reeva and Oscar were not at all committed to each other in the way Divaris and Samantha tried to tell us at the first bail hearing with talk of love and marriage. It was far too early in the relationship for that. IMO their comments were untrue but requested by OP's lawyers to give us the impression that OP would not intentionally kill a girl he loved so much. But they hardly knew each other. Both OP and RS were seeing other people at least up to late January - and 14 days later Reeva was dead!

So were there two love triangles going on at the same time here?

 

[shane13]

There are some interesting dates in the article Pisto mentioned above. It appears that Reeva was double dating in December and January.


The love triangle rumour resurfaces



Oscar Pistorius had another woman



http://womansday.ninemsn.com.au/truelifestories/8667875/oscar-pistorius-had-another-woman

It appears to me that both Reeva and Oscar were not at all committed to each other in the way Divaris and Samantha tried to tell us at the first bail hearing with talk of love and marriage. It was far too early in the relationship for that. IMO their comments were untrue but requested by OP's lawyers to give us the impression that OP would not intentionally kill a girl he loved so much. But they hardly knew each other. Both OP and RS were seeing other people at least up to late January - and 14 days later Reeva was dead!

So were there two love triangles going on at the same time here?

RE Erin Stear:
Nothing here. And “stunning” or beautiful” labels are quite funny. A bottle of H2O2 does not make one ”Stunning” when its not there.

And there isn’t even any proof so far that she and OP actually had a private date. Nothing here but another media created distraction.

Now for OP’s 4 phones. That’s needed to call friends?

Or is this just another distraction from what the media should be reporting on—that 5th phone taken from the CS, that I and Whiterum have been talking about.

 

[Estelle]

Can Oscar Pistorius get a fair trial?

Editor's note: Kelly Phelps is a senior lecturer in the Public Law Department at the University of Cape Town, and a former assistant editor of the South African Journal of Criminal Justice.

Cape Town, South Africa (CNN) -- Judging by the ferocity with which Gerrie Nel pursued a case of "planned and premeditated" murder against Oscar Pistorius at his bail hearing, it would not be unreasonable to assume the state had a strong case. From the outset, however, the veracity of the state's case appeared to dwindle.

At the bail hearing in February, the then-lead investigator Hilton Botha crumbled on the stand and had to concede that there was little appreciable evidence gathered to back up the state's claims. Worse, he admitted serious breaches of investigation protocol, including the failure to wear protective foot coverings at the crime scene, thereby contaminating certain forensic evidence. Botha also had to concede that Pistorius' version of events was not implausible.

This of course did not help Pistorius in the court of public opinion, as once the state's sensational claims were made they were immediately disseminated around the world. Nonetheless, much of the state's case was castigated by Magistrate Nair in his unusually long bail decision.

Adding to the perception that the state's case is floundering, on Tuesday, rather than presenting their charges to which Pistorius would plead, the state requested a two-month postponement to conduct further investigations. This equivocation is in stark contrast to their initial aggression at the bail proceedings.

The most interesting part of the postponement hearing was the stark warning the magistrate issued to the media and the state to act responsibly and avoid "scandalising the sanctity of justice" through a "trial by media."

Clearly he was referring to the leaked photographs of the crime scene which were recently published. The leaking of these pictures, as well as reports in local newspapers that numerous police cell phones have subsequently been confiscated, adds to the perception that the state is mismanaging this case.

This begs the question: considering a litany of state missteps and the wild public speculation triggered at the bail proceedings, can Pistorius get a fair trial?

Regarding his eventual trial in a court of law, the answer is clearly "yes."

This much was inherently acknowledged by the magistrate's warning yesterday -- he did not focus on the fairness of the trial being damaged but rather the sanctity of the justice system being called into disrepute.

However, Pistorius is unlikely to fare as well in the court of public opinion.

The state's bungles have only served to fuel the determination of Pistorius naysayers: if he is acquitted of murder it will not be put down to the fact that he was telling the truth, but because the state dropped the ball.

This stance fails to acknowledge that even the best-run cases can result in an acquittal when the facts, as revealed through the evidence gathered, end up supporting an acquittal.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/06/opinion/opinion-oscar-pistorius-fair-trial/

 

[shane13]

Here it is folks—the Ch 5 reenactments video.

I may have more extensive feedback later. But the audio witness reenactment is a joke.

The dark bedroom reenactment is a joke.

And the door reenactment has the presenter say the bullet found in the toilet missed everything when it had blood and brain matter on it.
Did they even read up on this first?

Oscar trial - the key questions - YouTube

 

[Patticake]

It is obvious to me that the Pistorius family is going to GREAT lengths to craft an "Oscar is devastated and becoming a hermit" routine even though it is simply not true.



Photos of the young lady at the link along with old photos of Reeva:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter-focused-athletics-faces-murder-trial.html

The stunning blonde keeping Oscar Pistorius focused on athletics as he faces murder trial over girlfriend's death

• Training partner Claudia Viljoen, 24, is helping the athlete maintain fitness
• Pistorius faces trial in August accused of murder of Reeva Steenkamp

As Oscar Pistorius awaits his trial for the killing of his lover, Reeva Steenkamp, another attractive young blonde is constantly at his side.

But there’s no danger of athlete Claudia Viljoen stepping into tragic model Miss Steenkamp’s shoes – her role with the Paralympic gold medallist known as the ‘Bladerunner’ is very different.
Her job as double amputee sprinter Pistorius’s training partner is to keep his mind focused on athletics and not on the case due to be heard in August, following his shooting of 29-year-old Reeva on Valentine’s Day.

Viljoen, 24, a former international 100m and 200m hurdler, is a regular visitor to the Pretoria home of Pistorius’s uncle Arnold, where a gym has been built in the pool house.

The pair train together on a treadmill, bicycle and weights equipment each day, but Viljoen, an old friend of 26-year-old Pistorius, has told friends she is reporting back regularly to his coach, Ampie Louw, on the Paralympian’s state of mind as he tries to rebuild his shattered life.

‘Claudia trains with Oscar in the morning, often together with his uncle Arnold’s family,’ said a source close to the Pistorius family. ‘She’s a very good friend of Oscar.’

Viljoen, who describes herself as ‘a 100m hurdler and sports scientist’, is engaged to business consultant James Heunis, 30.

.

 

[Patticake]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-defence-seize-1941092

Oscar Pistorius trial: Defence to seize on letter to paper about Reeva's burglary horror five years ago

The model wrote to her local paper warning families to take extra security measures after raiders ransacked her parents’ house

Paralympian Oscar Pistorius ’s girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp went public about her fear of *violent *intruders before she was* 
shot dead, the Sunday People has revealed.

The model wrote to her local paper warning families to take extra security measures after raiders ransacked her parents’ house.

It is believed the letter will be used by defence lawyers for double *amputee Olympic hero Pistorius, 26, who is *accused of murdering Reeva, 29, at home in Pretoria, South Africa.

He claims he thought he was *shooting an intruder behind a closed bathroom door on Valentine’s Day.

The Blade Runner’s lawyers will say the letter shows the couple shared their fears about violent raiders.

 

[shane13]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-defence-seize-1941092

Oscar Pistorius trial: Defence to seize on letter to paper about Reeva's burglary horror five years ago

The model wrote to her local paper warning families to take extra security measures after raiders ransacked her parents’ house

From the text in The Mirror:
The Blade Runner’s lawyers will say the letter shows the couple shared their fears about violent raiders.

Notice that:
1. There is no quote from OP's attorneys, so we do not know if they actually said anything to the Mirror
2. The letter to that local Port Elizabeth newspaper was printed in 2008, and there is no proof that Reeva shared this incident with Oscar, even though the Mirror appears to allege this.

Looks like more media manipulation to make it look like OP's DT has something great for their side when there appears to be nothing here. JMO

 

[whiterum]

'It's seems to be all about ' Can OP get a fair trial ' not 'Will there be Justice for Reeva ?

Her killer was out and about within weeks and can go wherever and whenever he pleases with practically every condition of bail set by the original magistrate subsequently quashed. IMO Seems money and friends in high places can get you special treatment.

The fact that the phone he used the night of the killing was removed from the scene and later found to be in the possession of the defence is treated as insignificant and not worthy of mention.

All the TV programmes being are biased in favour of OP, pushing his affidavit as gospel. A version that was written down and read out at in court by another.

Someone needs to speak up for the victim because she has no version, no voice. Ask the real questions from the right people and demand answers, not allow them to skirted around or brushed under the carpet.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I came across this article this evening. Not having seen it before I thought it may be of interest to others. The timings seem to differ from earlier postings, saying that SA time the shooting was between 4 and 5 am!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21516664

Apologies if you have all seen this before.

 

[shane13]

Blaming the Wrong People?

Last Tuesday, everyone expected a premeditated murder indictment would be formally made against OP.

It was not, and the reason was not provided in open court--BOTH parties having agreed to that. (?) The Acting Chief Magistrate appeared surprised at that. And then he went after the media and seemed to want to plant the new meme--"If the Pros.' case doesn't work out, blame the media." Supplanting the "Blame everything on Botha" meme.

Now Botha revealed that witnesses may be either clamming up (refusing to testify), or changing their minds.

And who may be responisible for that?

How about the Appeals Court Mag. who disallowed the BH Court judge's conditions which forbade OP from visiting or talking with his neighbors!

 

[Interested Bystander]

I know nothing of SA Law but is it possible to refuse to testify? Would not the witness be issued with a subpoena? I can see they may well change their story somewhat but I hope the prosecuting lawyers will come down hard on them if they attempt that. Can't help feeling that the Pistorious clan is behind much of what we hear, even the Channel 5 report.

 

[Estelle]

I am feeling more outraged than ever tonight over this case. It really feels to me as if they are all being bribed.

 

[whiterum]

I am feeling more outraged than ever tonight over this case. It really feels to me as if they are all being bribed.

Remember this , MB's comment about being called to a meeting with the three police colonels and Pistorius.

He said he wasn’t afraid of me and the phone cut,” Batchelor claimed, adding othat Pistorius had called back and sworn at him.

Batchelor said he ignored the “challenge” but was then shocked to receive a call from a senior police official who asked that he attend a meeting with Pistorius. At the meeting three police “colonels” asked about the fight, intimating that Pistorius had friends in high places.

“The man I heard on the phone is a different man from the image given out there. He carries a gun everywhere and I have seen him be controlling to women.”


http://www.citypress.co.za/news/pistorius-had-a-bad-temper/

It appears 'the friends in high places' the colonels spoke of above were pulling the strings then, and it's obvious that there are strings being pulled in this case, big time !