General Discussion Thread #4

[whiterum]

After a little research it does seem that even if a remote wipe has been used some data will be available with the right equipment, particularly sms. Also to get the best results the computer that the phone was synched to is needed. Cellebrite have specific forensic programs that are used by Law Enforcement.

The following was interesting and was copied from the EMF Organisation forum:-

"The fact that I can take a ‘wiped-through-ActiveSync’ iphone3 and recover all of the message store is just the beginning of the unraveling of remote wipe. With the new BlackBerry content encryption de-coders that are out, even the ‘best’ of the mobile security architectures are vulnerable now."

Here is the link if anyone would like to read more.

http://theemf.org/groups/mobile-sec...te-wipe-security-control-or-security-fantasy/

Thanks IB that's good to know. I hope all the information can be expertly retrieved as those phones could tell a different story that may blow his affidavit right out of the water.

 

[Interested Bystander]

IMO OP encrypted after the murder.

Apologies I meant to write "so as not to leave his bloodied fingerprints" but failed to include the very important "not". I have corrected my original post.

 

[shane13]

I have not commented on the risible story of the 4-digit code for the iphone and Oscar forgetting it, and they can’t crack the code, etc…

So many levels of BS that it makes me laugh that anyone could believe any of that.

If you know anything deep… Or if you have read any of James Bamford’s books (see Amazon or anywhere) on the NSA (and its partner, the UK’s GCHQ), you’d know that every phone call, email, fax, etc., on the planet, gets scooped up immediately by either or both of those intel agencies. And I don’t mean just recently.

The truth is that if SAPS or SA Govt asked NSA or GCHQ for the calls made on the fourth or the FIFTH phone, they would not only get the times and #s called by OP…they would get copies of the entire conversations!

I would imagine that quicker service would occur from contacting GCHQ. Very close relationship between ANC and London. Just search on how many times Mandela flew to London since released from prison.

The ludicrous media thing with the phone and the codes is prob meant to plant the meme for Pros dropping premed murder charge soon, and eventual acquittal or short sentence for OP.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Shane, do you really believe there is a chance of premeditation being dropped?holy shoooo...

 

[shane13]

Shane, do you really believe there is a chance of premeditation being dropped?holy shoooo...

Well Chiquita, were you not surprised after all this time that no indictment was handed down at the June 4 court date?
Seems like they felt they did not have enough then to sustain premed murder charge.

What else do you think for that?

 

[seattlechiquita]

Well Chiquita, were you not surprised after all this time that no indictment was handed down at the June 4 court date?
Seems like they felt they did not have enough then to sustain premed murder charge.

What else do you think for that?

Oh, I believe you, but I don't want to believe you at the same time! I want him tried for M1. Then again it's not about what I want. Sigh sigh sigh.

 

[shane13]

Oh, I believe you, but I don't want to believe you at the same time! I want him tried for M1. Then again it's not about what I want. Sigh sigh sigh.

Things are actually worse than I realized.

I re-read some of Mag Nair's ruling.

In one breath he noted the 5th phone (that was removed illegally from CS).
He does not mention that removal from CS is a crime and that DT has had it for a week. He merely turns it around and blames Botha for not immediately processing the alleged calls made on that phone when Botha only was told of its existence hours or a day before, and DT still has it!

Sure seems like Judge, Pros, and DT all in on a fix with Det Botha the scapegoat for all things to come.

Or now, the risible (to me anyway) thing about "Oscar forgot the code", and it can't be cracked--see my above post on that!

Sure looks like one big fix with media a big part of it.

 

[shane13]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas/consol_act/poa1935140/s63a.html

From Australia—about removing evidence from a CS being a crime, and that arrest without needing a warrant for removing evidence from CS is SOP.

Someone--Carl or Atty Oldwage or someone may have removed
1. .38 Ammunition
2. Flash Drive with foreign accts
3. the FIFTH phone
4. Something else?

And all may have occurred before the public scapegoat, Botha, arrived.

 

[Estelle]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas/consol_act/poa1935140/s63a.html

From Australia—about removing evidence from a CS being a crime, and that arrest without needing a warrant for removing evidence from CS is SOP.

Someone--Carl or Atty Oldwage or someone may have removed
1. .38 Ammunition
2. Flash Drive with foreign accts
3. the FIFTH phone
4. Something else?

And all may have occurred before the public scapegoat, Botha, arrived.

Steroids removed? Not herbal ones either. IMO there is something about those so-called herbal steroids. Did the DT lie about their being herbal?

What about the toxicology tests? Didn't they wait ages being doing them? Then did they lose them or something?

What about the evidence of drinking alcohol? Bottles removed?

It looks as if everything has been done and is being done to get him off this charge or premeditated murder.

I also thought the murder was premeditated after the first shot was fired eg the second shot. But they want to prove that OP premeditated the murder of Reeva (not the intruder) and this is where the evidence could be on her encrypted phone. But why does it matter whether OP thought it was the intruder or Reeva in premeditation?

Then we also have the mystery of the ladder and who put it there and when.

I guess the huge amount of encrypted data on Reeva's phone could be emails to OP and could explain why they argued - not just that night.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Glad to see I'm not any longer the only one who believe Botha was the scapegoat in the OP case

You have already listed some points that show there is something odd here. Let me add a few other points:


1. The hearing by judge Nair on Febr 19 wasn't a bail hearing but a pre-trial proceeding. Prosecutors couldn't be prepared to show all the evidence Nair claimed because at this time they were at the beginning of their investigations. But for a bail hearing that's not necessary, because the only point Nair should have clarified was whether OP get bail or not.


2. Nair ruled that bail proceedings would "go schedule 6" because he could not rule out premeditation. And for schedule 6 OP will have to show "exceptional circumstances" if he wants to get bail.

OP got bail but what were the "exceptional circumstances" Nair accepted for bail?

Nair: The accused is not a flight risk and does not show a propensity to violence.

Really very "exceptional circumstances"…..

And further very interesting: Nair said:

“The defence has failed to show this court that there is a weakness in the State's case.”

So. WHY Nair then granted bail???


3. Nair blamed Botha for several “mistakes”

- Nair DIDN’T blame DT for withhold the 5th phone – and why didn't Nel immediately protest to this point???

- Nair DIDN’T blame DT for removing the bullet they found inside the toilet bowl from the CS – and again, no comment from Nel.

DT said they found it inside the toilet bowl but is this really the truth??? No one else than the DT saw where this bullet was found. It fits to their strategy that it was inside the toilet bowl but maybe this bullet was found in actual fact elsewhere in the house?

To me this point is more important than the withhold of the 5th phone because this bullet – in addition to the toilet door – is of decisive importance for WHAT really happened and WHERE what happened.

- Why Botha was blamed for he had failed to wear protective clothing when walking through the crime scene? What kind of traces he could have contaminated? There was no need to preserve DNA evidence from the ground because it was clear there were only 2 people in the house (OP and Reeva - NO intruder) and OP admitted he shot Reeva.


4. On March 28 (bail appeal) judge Bert Bam blamed the decision of his colleague Nair as “absolutely wrong and unfair” and said many of Nair’s conditions "didn't serve any purpose". And Bam outlined "all the factors" that show that Pistorius isn't a flight risk:

- his assets in SA
- his family in SA etc.

Once more: Really very "exceptional circumstances"….. And I never seen before a court hearing in which a judge naming and shaming his colleagues this way.


5. On June 4 (pre-trail hearing) magistrate Daniel Thulare warned against “trial by media” and lambasted them for threatening the "fountains of justice" and sanctity of South Africa's courts. – What a BS! Doesn’t he know it would be a JUDGE who decides whether OP is guilty or not as charged? And didn’t he realized it’s also the DT that have an effect on the media?

This sounds (to me) like a presage of the ongoing case or even maybe of the verdict....


6. Roux said: "Steenkamp's bladder was empty. Botha could not deny it and agreed that that helped back up Pistorius's version of events."

Nel said: "There is no evidence before the court that Steenkamp's bladder was empty when she died" (as the defence have stated in order to indicate she was going to the toilet rather than hiding from Pistorius).

Nair points out: There may be other reasons why Steenkamp's bladder was empty, but says Botha was not the right witness to answer this.


7. OP lied in his affidavit about his assets. He “forgot” to mention his house in Johannesburg which he bought for 9.8 million rand (£677,000) this year. This came to light when the DT read the affidavit of OP’s friend Graham Binge who stated:

“Oscar told me that he had bought a new house in Johannesburg. The last time I had seen Oscar in December, he was with his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp and he had mentioned they wanted a house in Johannesburg and were going to go house hunting. It sounded to me like the plans Oscar had had in December for a new house in Johannesburg were well in track.”

Not a single one of the media reported or wondered about these points....

 

[shane13]

Steroids removed? Not herbal ones either. IMO there is something about those so-called herbal steroids. Did the DT lie about their being herbal?

What about the toxicology tests? Didn't they wait ages being doing them? Then did they lose them or something?

What about the evidence of drinking alcohol? Bottles removed?

It looks as if everything has been done and is being done to get him off this charge or premeditated murder.

I also thought the murder was premeditated after the first shot was fired eg the second shot. But they want to prove that OP premeditated the murder of Reeva (not the intruder) and this is where the evidence could be on her encrypted phone. But why does it matter whether OP thought it was the intruder or Reeva in premeditation?

Then we also have the mystery of the ladder and who put it there and when.

I guess the huge amount of encrypted data on Reeva's phone could be emails to OP and could explain why they argued - not just that night.

What is your aim or goal here? Why resurrect as “steroids” or herbal remedies when it was long ago here proven that “Testis Compsitum” is a homeopathic remedy?

And also my post was clearly about what Carl P or Atty Oldwage removed—illegally.

The Testis Compositum was removed by the cops and/or Botha, doing their job. And not by Carl or Oldwage.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Glad to see I'm not any longer the only one who believe Botha was the scapegoat in the OP case

You have already listed some points that show there is something odd here. Let me add a few other points:


1. The hearing by judge Nair on Febr 19 wasn't a bail hearing but a pre-trial proceeding. Prosecutors couldn't be prepared to show all the evidence Nair claimed because at this time they were at the beginning of their investigations. But for a bail hearing that's not necessary, because the only point Nair should have clarified was whether OP get bail or not.


2. Nair ruled that bail proceedings would "go schedule 6" because he could not rule out premeditation. And for schedule 6 OP will have to show "exceptional circumstances" if he wants to get bail.

OP got bail but what were the "exceptional circumstances" Nair accepted for bail?



Really very "exceptional circumstances"…..

And further very interesting: Nair said:



So. WHY Nair then granted bail???


3. Nair blamed Botha for several “mistakes”

- Nair DIDN’T blame DT for withhold the 5th phone – and why didn't Nel immediately protest to this point???

- Nair DIDN’T blame DT for removing the bullet they found inside the toilet bowl from the CS – and again, no comment from Nel.

DT said they found it inside the toilet bowl but is this really the truth??? No one else than the DT saw where this bullet was found. It fits to their strategy that it was inside the toilet bowl but maybe this bullet was found in actual fact elsewhere in the house?

To me this point is more important than the withhold of the 5th phone because this bullet – in addition to the toilet door – is of decisive importance for WHAT really happened and WHERE what happened.

- Why Botha was blamed for he had failed to wear protective clothing when walking through the crime scene? What kind of traces he could have contaminated? There was no need to preserve DNA evidence from the ground because it was clear there were only 2 people in the house (OP and Reeva - NO intruder) and OP admitted he shot Reeva.


4. On March 28 (bail appeal) judge Bert Bam blamed the decision of his colleague Nair as “absolutely wrong and unfair” and said many of Nair’s conditions "didn't serve any purpose". And Bam outlined "all the factors" that show that Pistorius isn't a flight risk:

- his assets in SA
- his family in SA etc.

Once more: Really very "exceptional circumstances"….. And I never seen before a court hearing in which a judge naming and shaming his colleagues this way.


5. On June 4 (pre-trail hearing) magistrate Daniel Thulare warned against “trial by media” and lambasted them for threatening the "fountains of justice" and sanctity of South Africa's courts. – What a BS! Doesn’t he know it would be a JUDGE who decides whether OP is guilty or not as charged? And didn’t he realized it’s also the DT that have an effect on the media?

This sounds (to me) like a presage of the ongoing case or even maybe of the verdict....


6. Roux said: "Steenkamp's bladder was empty. Botha could not deny it and agreed that that helped back up Pistorius's version of events."

Nel said: "There is no evidence before the court that Steenkamp's bladder was empty when she died" (as the defence have stated in order to indicate she was going to the toilet rather than hiding from Pistorius).

Nair points out: There may be other reasons why Steenkamp's bladder was empty, but says Botha was not the right witness to answer this.


7. OP lied in his affidavit about his assets. He “forgot” to mention his house in Johannesburg which he bought for 9.8 million rand (£677,000) this year. This came to light when the DT read the affidavit of OP’s friend Graham Binge who stated:




Not a single one of the media reported or wondered about these points....

Very good points Pİsto..if that missed bullet was found at any place other than the toilet that would very well be a premeditated 1st degree murder proving that she was chased by him inside the house and maybe that was the case and the bullet was put inside the toilet bowl afterwards.

 

[Pisto_lius]

I don’t believe prosecutors contacted APPLE for help for the encrypted phones only a few days ago. They knew about this (for the 4 phones they found at the scene) since the very first day and asked why would Reeva take a phone with her into the bathroom?

And I also don’t believe their problem with the 5th phone (OP’s) is the PIN code because as some of you pointed out, it took as little as two minutes to crack this code. There must be another problem – maybe to restore some of the data.

I think this is nothing more than another fairy story of the media because they haven’t enough new headline about the case.

But I DO believe – like Estelle - none of the phones were encrypted before the murder but OP did it himself or got one of his team to do it to hide evidence. And who ever this did, he did the same with Reeva's phones.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Things are actually worse than I realized.

I re-read some of Mag Nair's ruling.

In one breath he noted the 5th phone (that was removed illegally from CS).
He does not mention that removal from CS is a crime and that DT has had it for a week. He merely turns it around and blames Botha for not immediately processing the alleged calls made on that phone when Botha only was told of its existence hours or a day before, and DT still has it!

Sure seems like Judge, Pros, and DT all in on a fix with Det Botha the scapegoat for all things to come.

Or now, the risible (to me anyway) thing about "Oscar forgot the code", and it can't be cracked--see my above post on that!

Sure looks like one big fix with media a big part of it.

.

I agree looks a big fix-collusion-sham whatever it is

 

[Pisto_lius]

Very good points Pİsto..if that missed bullet was found at any place other than the toilet that would very well be a premeditated 1st degree murder proving that she was chased by him inside the house and maybe that was the case and the bullet was put inside the toilet bowl afterwards.

BIB - As I understood the DT took the bullet out of the toilet bowl and took it away from the crime scene when they found it. They DIDN'T hand over it to the investigators.

Roux casts major doubt on the quality of the police investigation. They missed finding a spent bullet projectile or cartridge in the toilet bowl. Roux: Our forensics expert went through the toilet carefully on the afternoon of the shooting when we got access. A spent bullet projectile was found in the toilet bowl that wasn't discovered by your officers.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/2/20/172254/424

Botha acknowledged that Pistorius's legal team had also found a spent bullet cartridge in the toilet bowl in the bathroom that his officers had not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders

Reporter Barry Bateman
Roux our own forensics found a spent bullet projectile inside the toilet bowl which your team did not find.
https://twitter.com/barrybateman/status/304195623354249216

And media reported

But it is not only the post-mortem that Perumal relied on as he also assessed the crime scene. In fact, it was he who, through seeing a particular mark on the toilet wall, realised that a bullet cartridge was in the toilet and suggested it be retrieved.

So there is NO evidence they really found this bullet inside the toilet bowl.

 

[shane13]

.

I agree looks a big fix-collusion-sham whatever it is

Yes.

This news item about the June court appearance--and no indictments--indicates that Oscar did not sob and seems to be confident in court now. Does he know how this will end up?

http://www.mydesert.com/usatoday/article/2387405

http://news.theafricanguide.com/news/pistorius-case-postponed-until-august-over-death-of-girlfriend

 

[Pisto_lius]

What is your aim or goal here? Why resurrect as “steroids” or herbal remedies when it was long ago here proven that “Testis Compsitum” is a homeopathic remedy?

And also my post was clearly about what Carl P or Atty Oldwage removed—illegally.

The Testis Compositum was removed by the cops and/or Botha, doing their job. And not by Carl or Oldwage.

Why do you react so aggressive again? In post #768 you asked for something else that Carl or Atty Oldwage or someone may have removed from the crime scene.

Estelle answered your question and explained she doesn't meant "herbal remedies" but she considers possible someone of the DT also could removed steroids.

Not only your opinions/theories are right even if you try to portray it (not for the first time)

So, take it easy - live and let live

 

[shane13]

Why do you react so aggressive again? In post #768 you asked for something else that Carl or Atty Oldwage or someone may have removed from the crime scene.

Estelle answered your question and explained she doesn't meant "herbal remedies" but she considers possible someone of the DT also could removed steroids.

Not only your opinions/theories are right even if you try to portray it (not for the first time)

So, take it easy - live and let live

I did not react aggressively.

As I noted there never were any steroids.
I also noted that it is not a crime for cops to remove evidence.

Why are you reacting aggressively?

 

[Pisto_lius]

Back to topic


Oscar to Return to Low-Key Track Routine

Pistorius Family Statement - 27 June 2013

Oscar has decided to resume a low-key track routine. Oscar is not contemplating a formal return to athletics and his training is not aimed at preparing for competition.

His focus at this time remains entirely on the court case. His family, and those close to him, have encouraged him to spend a few hours a week on the track to assist him in finding the necessary mental and emotional equilibrium to process his trauma and prepare for the trail.

ENDS

Media Manager

Anneliese Burgess

Cell: +2783 413 6573

Email: media@abproductions.co.za

http://oscarpistorius.com/oscar-to-return-to-low-key-track-routine/

Somebody surprised?

 

[shane13]

Off Topic

So many depressing murders.

Maybe time for a fiction break?

In case you forgot, Dexter in just 3 days.

Yes, maybe more murders but at least they are fictional.

And a good way to learn some forensic science--which is very relevant to OP case.