General Discussion Thread No. 18

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daffodil said:
I took that to mean that those were examples of things you could extract DNA from not that they neccessarily had.
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LOL I am glad you got even that - I took it as bad translation from an article that probably didnt even make sense in Portugese !

It made no sense to me
 
daffodil said:
Living high??????????????? In what sense? Gerry is going back to work according to press reports.
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With armed guards no less!!! Sounds like he's going to have more security than the president of the United States. Boy, I feel sorry for his colleagues and the rest of the hospital staff. How would you like to be metal detected and frisked every time you assisted him in surgery or had an appointment? I don't think the hospital will stand for that very long. His patients won't stand for it....I know I wouldn't, no matter how much I adored him....(oh, that's right you NEVER hear from his adoring patients in his support).
 
Stale or fresh, forum rumour or transitory "fact", I really would like to read about 48 hours to arguido status or arrest for O'Brien. I missed that whole notion when it circulated. O'Brien is, for me, a shadowy figure. I wish he would come forward and fill in the details of his movements in English. He did say that Gerry McCann wanted to control what information was released to the media or the public--perhaps the timing of it. That statement in itself piqued my curiosity.
 
iNTERESTEDWOMAN said:
With armed guards no less!!! Sounds like he's going to have more security than the president of the United States. Boy, I feel sorry for his colleagues and the rest of the hospital staff. How would you like to be metal detected and frisked every time you assisted him in surgery or had an appointment? I don't think the hospital will stand for that very long. His patients won't stand for it....I know I wouldn't, no matter how much I adored him....(oh, that's right you NEVER hear from his adoring patients in his support).
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I have to say I have always found it strange that not one patient ever came forward to speak on behalf of the Mccanns.
 
Tuba said:
Stale or fresh, forum rumour or transitory "fact", I really would like to read about 48 hours to arguido status or arrest for O'Brien. I missed that whole notion when it circulated. O'Brien is, for me, a shadowy figure. I wish he would come forward and fill in the details of his movements in English. He did say that Gerry McCann wanted to control what information was released to the media or the public--perhaps the timing of it. That statement in itself piqued my curiosity.
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I agree!
 
Even though that forum page "no longer exists", I was able to read it as it once existed and it was interesting. It was not a baseless post in a forum but an entire newspaper article by Bruno Portelo (stationed in London), Jose Oliveira and Armando Arquivo that someone had taken the trouble to transpose onto the forum. If you are also intrigued, go to Google, enter "Arrest of British suspect imminent in 48 hours" +McCann Exeter That should take you to the cached page. At least, it worked for me.
 
daffodil said:
Living high??????????????? In what sense? Gerry is going back to work according to press reports.
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Well, obviously he has to go back to work....unless he pretends to continue living off the fund as long as he lives. :rolleyes:
 
SleuthMom said:
Well, obviously he has to go back to work....unless he pretends to continue living off the fund as long as he lives. :rolleyes:
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I don't believe that the hospital will have him back. I think if he states that he wants to return to work then they have to pay him off to keep him out!
 
I think they will take him back, the staff and directors have been beyond supportive towards him, I won't be surprised if they take him back.
 
SleuthMom said:
I think they will take him back, the staff and directors have been beyond supportive towards him, I won't be surprised if they take him back.
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I agree. And he might very well be, and probably is, a good heart specialist/administrator.

Personally, I think it's good that he goes back to work. I think it's good for him, and it's good for the McCann family. Not in the monetary sense, but in the sense of being grounded and having routine again.
 
Texana said:
I agree. And he might very well be, and probably is, a good heart specialist/administrator.

Personally, I think it's good that he goes back to work. I think it's good for him, and it's good for the McCann family. Not in the monetary sense, but in the sense of being grounded and having routine again.
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Yes but one has to remember that he is dealing with peoples lives here & let's face it he would not be human if his mind was not elsewhere! One slip, some lack of concentration & someone dies!
 
colomom said:
I am sorry B, so sorry ThoughtFox, and sorry to anyone else that I mislead. That is an old article, from August.

I guess someone re-posted it on the Mirror board and, silly me, I did not verify the source. :blushing: I got sidetracked.

In my defense, I was involved in one of the biggest sports fiasco's in baseball history (IMHO) as I attempted to purchase World's Series tickets this morning. Stupid servers here in Denver could not handle the volume (8.5 million hits in 90 minutes) so they had to suspend ticket sales, for now. :furious: Don't know if I have it in me to try again.

I promise to be more careful in the future.
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GO ROCKIES!!!
 
Here's an explanation of the death scent on cuddle cat. Kate says "Maybe it happened when the toy went to work with me." Through the lens of "she's guilty", it sounds like an idiotic lie. But through the lens of "she's innocent", it sounds like this:

You take your child to preschool in the morning. If your preschool is like most, "favorite" toys aren't allowed there (it can cause conflict with other kids, and it might get lost, dirty, or covered-with-paint). So ... your child takes her favorite toy to the door, but you must confiscate it on saying goodbye. The toy goes back to the car with you.

Toy spends the day inside the car in the parking lot at work, while you are busy getting your hands (or more likely your clothing) exposed to death scent. In the afternoon you return to the car, and in the process of doing something in the car, you pick up the toy, maybe put it in your lap or otherwise let it brush against you. The scent has now been transferred.

I believe this scenario is very well within the scope of "I took the toy to work with me" because in fact the toy DID go to work. The fact that it didn't go all the way inside the building would be obvious to someone who feels innocent, and to any listener who believes the person to be innocent. It only takes on the ominous tone of lieing idiocy when the listener is already convinced the person is guilty.

Big rule in sleuthing: Don't get fooled by your own assumptions.

If this was an inside job, it was orchestrated by one person, someone who is confident, a good talker, who lies glibly. Kate doesn't strike me as a particularly good or glib talker. She says a lot of boneheaded self-incriminating things, in fact. A good liar/murderer knows how to shift attention subtlely to someone else, NOT pile it all on top of herself!

Murder statistics tell us the person is most likely male. That would not be Kate.

The person had 1.5 hours to do something (8:30 pm to 10 pm) after Madeleine was last seen by both parents, and before she was discovered missing by Kate. Kate never left the table, one thing the Tapas 9 and the wait staff agree on. If Kate & Gerry knew Madeleine was dead and out of the apartment at 8:30 pm, it's ridiculous to assume they'd wait 1.5 hours before springing the trap.

Finally, the person who did this needed to put on a show afterward to impress someone that he was innocent. Someone close to him whose respect & devotion he craves and who is, or was, clueless.

The person's motive? Could be lots of things. Could've been premeditated out of jealousy, annoyance, or even for money. Could've been an accident that happened when he checked on the children and Madeleine made a scene. She cried, begged him not to leave her, stood up on the bed and lunged for him. He was annoyed, took a step back and let her fall. She hit her head on the corner of the bedside table.

Now he's in a pickle. He convinced Kate to accept these cheap childcare arrangements, had assured her there was nothing to worry about, and had promised to check often. Now he up and kills one of them. Oops my bad. He knew he was in it deep with her, if she found out. So because he is who he is ("can do", life-and-death, cardiologist, friends in high places), he took a bold step. He hid Madeleine himself or confided in one person who although he had misgivings, helped him remove the body. That person, being a doctor himself, had access to the local hospital and some kinf of cold storage.

Maybe he intended all along to tell Kate. But as things developed he found himself deeper and deeper in lies, and it quickly became impossible. He's now trapped in the lie and has probably convinced himself it all never happened. In any case he's made amends x 100 by visiting George Bush and the Pope and writing that silly blog, and all.
Meanwhile he's doing his best to keep Kate off balance, to keep suspicion and public attention on Kate.

I think this is a great theory, and does an excellent job of accounting for the key facts. Problem is, it's very Hitchcockian and really over the top. As are most of the spooky ghost-story meanderings you read on these forums. People just love getting the shivers over a good body-snatching, don't they? Oooh scarey...

In reality, the more I think about this case, and the more I hear what's coming from the "they're guilty" side, the more I'm inclined to believe they're not guilty -- either of them -- and it was, sadly, a stranger abduction.
 
colomom said:
I LOVE you hc2007.....you are my new bestest friend.....

heeheehee

(thanks)
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Aw ... how sweet! Thank you, and right back at ya!

My husband and I were just speculating last night, how are the Red Sox guys going to manage the thin air of Denver? Not well, we hope. Good luck! We're Giants fans, BTW, but enough said about that. :(
 
hcc2007 said:
Here's an explanation of the death scent on cuddle cat. Kate says "Maybe it happened when the toy went to work with me." Through the lens of "she's guilty", it sounds like an idiotic lie. But through the lens of "she's innocent", it sounds like this:

You take your child to preschool in the morning. If your preschool is like most, "favorite" toys aren't allowed there (it can cause conflict with other kids, and it might get lost, dirty, or covered-with-paint). So ... your child takes her favorite toy to the door, but you must confiscate it on saying goodbye. The toy goes back to the car with you.

Toy spends the day inside the car in the parking lot at work, while you are busy getting your hands (or more likely your clothing) exposed to death scent. In the afternoon you return to the car, and in the process of doing something in the car, you pick up the toy, maybe put it in your lap or otherwise let it brush against you. The scent has now been transferred.

I believe this scenario is very well within the scope of "I took the toy to work with me" because in fact the toy DID go to work. The fact that it didn't go all the way inside the building would be obvious to someone who feels innocent, and to any listener who believes the person to be innocent. It only takes on the ominous tone of lieing idiocy when the listener is already convinced the person is guilty.

Big rule in sleuthing: Don't get fooled by your own assumptions.

If this was an inside job, it was orchestrated by one person, someone who is confident, a good talker, who lies glibly. Kate doesn't strike me as a particularly good or glib talker. She says a lot of boneheaded self-incriminating things, in fact. A good liar/murderer knows how to shift attention subtlely to someone else, NOT pile it all on top of herself!

Murder statistics tell us the person is most likely male. That would not be Kate.

The person had 1.5 hours to do something (8:30 pm to 10 pm) after Madeleine was last seen by both parents, and before she was discovered missing by Kate. Kate never left the table, one thing the Tapas 9 and the wait staff agree on. If Kate & Gerry knew Madeleine was dead and out of the apartment at 8:30 pm, it's ridiculous to assume they'd wait 1.5 hours before springing the trap.

Finally, the person who did this needed to put on a show afterward to impress someone that he was innocent. Someone close to him whose respect & devotion he craves and who is, or was, clueless.

The person's motive? Could be lots of things. Could've been premeditated out of jealousy, annoyance, or even for money. Could've been an accident that happened when he checked on the children and Madeleine made a scene. She cried, begged him not to leave her, stood up on the bed and lunged for him. He was annoyed, took a step back and let her fall. She hit her head on the corner of the bedside table.

Now he's in a pickle. He convinced Kate to accept these cheap childcare arrangements, had assured her there was nothing to worry about, and had promised to check often. Now he up and kills one of them. Oops my bad. He knew he was in it deep with her, if she found out. So because he is who he is ("can do", life-and-death, cardiologist, friends in high places), he took a bold step. He hid Madeleine himself or confided in one person who although he had misgivings, helped him remove the body. That person, being a doctor himself, had access to the local hospital and some kinf of cold storage.

Maybe he intended all along to tell Kate. But as things developed he found himself deeper and deeper in lies, and it quickly became impossible. He's now trapped in the lie and has probably convinced himself it all never happened. In any case he's made amends x 100 by visiting George Bush and the Pope and writing that silly blog, and all.
Meanwhile he's doing his best to keep Kate off balance, to keep suspicion and public attention on Kate.

I think this is a great theory, and does an excellent job of accounting for the key facts. Problem is, it's very Hitchcockian and really over the top. As are most of the spooky ghost-story meanderings you read on these forums. People just love getting the shivers over a good body-snatching, don't they? Oooh scarey...

In reality, the more I think about this case, and the more I hear what's coming from the "they're guilty" side, the more I'm inclined to believe they're not guilty -- either of them -- and it was, sadly, a stranger abduction.
Click to expand...

Good theory hcc2007.

In your scenario though why would one of Gerrys friends help him to hide the body etc?
As an intelligent person that person must have known covering up a death is a crime what did they have to gain from being an accessory to murder?
I think that person would have more than misgivings, unless they were also somehow responsible for Maddies death also there is no good reason for anyone to put themselves in such a position.
 
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