General theory thread and motives rehashed #2

[4Jacy]

Your welcome...
In reference to when Hank Sr. and Lisa moved into Tommy's house could be important, but I believe knowing the Croslins lived on Magnolia and were not in town on February 9th is just as important... And to my knowledge LE never searched the Magnolia Street address... Personally, I would like to know why...Everyone who was connected to Haleigh in any way should have been investigated in the beginning and their residences checked out immediately .....JMO

Gee I don't know Em, do you suppose it was inadequate police work. The (LE) also allowed TN and GGMS into the crime scene (the police knew immediately that the MH was the last place HC was before she died.) They also did not give drug testing on any of these people.

I believe the actual accident took place at the Croslin's on Magnolia St. after that, they took her back to the MH, called GGMS and nurse to evaluate the situation. Then Haleigh slowly died. MOO :twocents:

 

[justus4all]

Gee I don't know Em, do you suppose it was inadequate police work. The (LE) also allowed TN and GGMS into the crime scene (the police knew immediately that the MH was the last place HC was before she died.) They also did not give drug testing on any of these people.

I believe the actual accident took place at the Croslin's on Magnolia St. after that, they took her back to the MH, called GGMS and nurse to evaluate the situation. Then Haleigh slowly died. MOO :twocents:

I agree with that theory...I have always felt H was involved in an accident..and it was not in her home...

So...the story that R was saying that he let H sit on his lap and drive home..don't have that link..an accident happened??? On the way to Magnolia? He mentioned H turning on left ...then right blinkers...OR..possible an accident occuring INSIDE the home on Magnolia...

IF just an accident??...why not just call 911..if just an accident??
Why make up a story that involved so much lying, LE involvement, media coverage, speculation, suspicion, and TV interviews????..

Unless a gun/drugs/illegal activity involved...why not take her to the hospital? If she died a slow death...she may have been saved at the hospital

 

[Gwen]

My last few days online have been used reading old threads and video from this mess. There is so much I had forgotten or had never read/heard. I think I am enlightened. Maybe you all won't agree but for me its like this.

This is not a simple abduction. Misty did not kill Haleigh because she was jealous. Ron did not kill Haleigh out of rage. If he/she did harm Haleigh it was by accident. I do not believe anyone took her out of that mobile home on Mon. nite. I don't believe that Tommy or Joe took/killed Haleigh. I don't think TN or AS took her. I do not think Haleighs' mother or her associates did either. BUT I do think MANY of these people know what happened. Indulge me if you will.

Ronald worked from 5-1. 8 hours. (that is what I think and its the only way it makes sense and still be almost believable.) Did Ron leave work early? I think it is entirely possible. I think he could have left by the back entrance and without his car and gone for awhile without raising questions. I think someone probably did pick him up and he sneaked away for some nepharious deed that nite.

I have to go all the way back to the first stories we heard in Feb '09. There was Misty out with WBG. Ron had robbed dealers. The blue van stories. Fights with cousins and inlaws etc. Sex, drugs and Mexicans.

If I recollect from the video of WBG on the AHarris site, he tells the story of the weekend and his thoughts of Ron. I won't go into all the details to save space. Go listen again if you have not recently. He says Ron and others were looking for him and it was with malice they sought him. Why?

Then we have the story of Ron robbing dealers and all the stuff about retaliation for those deeds. I have to wonder if there is so much talk of this...smoke/fire things.

The van is moved from where it was last parked per Chelsea. She says Joe was still in his clothes when RC and Misty called about Haleigh. The van is scratched, has a headlight damaged and blood in the back. Deer blood per Misty. Correct me if I am wrong about this please..but didn't Tim and Chelsea wait for hours before responding to to the SOS from R/M about the abduction? Something about new meds Tim was taking? Seems to me. They were in fact probably not suprised and wanted to stay out of it. I have my thoughts about why. I will withhold them for now..

Next is the story of the gun. Who fought over it. Who stole it. Who hid/found it. Why all the talk about a gun that has nothing to do with Haleigh. I am from the school that there is truth in every lie and that there is preoccupation about this weapon for some reason. There is a need on EVERY players part to distance themself from this gun. No one will admit they fought, stole, hid or found it. Why all the talk about a gun that was not involved in any crime. Why all the tales of how it was taken then found and even at this no general consesus on who took/found it? Finally, why didn't RC just give the gun to LE? Did he ever? Was it the same gun or another?

Then we have all the confusion about Misty and cohorts at a place with alot of Mexicans partying on Fri and Sat nite. I have my thoughts about what Misty did or didn't do. On one hand my Mamaw always told me "You can go anywhere and still be a lady". However, she also said "If you wuz in the crowd....you were doing it"?

Finally, who said Ron robbed a dealer(s). When did this happen? Who helped him?

Then we have the mass exodus......Joe gets outta Dodge tuit suite in the am. Tim/Chelsea leave as soon as they can arrange it. Nay Nay and Misty's party buddies disappear out of the pic for days. Ronald cannot leave, nor can Misty. But the thing in all this paragraph that sticks out to me is Tommy stays put. What does that say? He can't leave, he is stubborn, or he is free of all guilt in this mess? I dunno which way I am inclined as I type.

Then the neigbors say they hear screams and loud cars on the road. Dogs are barking and won't hush. Something was going on at that trailer. I do not know what.

I could type for a week with all the things that lead me to what I am about to say. I will refrain as most of you are far better schooled in this case than me. I am of the opinion at this point that there is a reason NO ONE is willing to talk about this case. None of the ones that KNOW anything anyway. Croslins/Cummings won't speak about it even though they have been incarcerated and in the case of Tommy to great personal expense. WHY?

This indicates to me that something BIG happened and they ALL know. Here is what I think tonite......

I am not the smartest cookie in the jar, but this makes sense to me. The robbery of whatever dealer was done on the same night that Haleigh disappeared. I think that explains so much. I believe tonite that those that have left town and Ron/Misty did a bad thing and it followed them home to bite them.

I think Ron was picked up at PDM as soon as it was dark and they went away to do the deed. I further believe that someone kept the kids until this was done. I don't know who. I do think GGS actually took the kids with her when she left that evening though. Misty's phone was left at the trailer. That would explain her not taking calls. Rons was left on auto dial or the phone log will probably show it was left on PDM property and was silent for the time Ron was away. I could go on with this but you all see where I am going. I think Ron went back to work and was probably followed home by whomever he robbed earlier. I think TN was bringing back the kids and ran into the fray when it hit the fan in the yard. I also believe the reason Ron went past the house to the other Kangeroo was to shake them from his tailgate that nite.

I know this is rambling and hard to read and I apologize. It's the best I can do at this hour and I am gonna let you all fill in the rest of it.....if you are inclined to agree with any part of my scenario.

God Bless Haleigh........

 

[Gwen]

I want to add that I believe that it would be dark in Fl. by 8 or 9 pm in Feb. That is when I believe Ron left work with his accomplices.

I am not sure Misty went along for this ride. Maybe she and the kids were at her parents house. Would be a good precaution to take. Especially when you factor in that Ron was at first staunch in his assertion that they were sleeping together. Maybe they were sleeping together somewhere else.
I just don't have it all figured out. If I could just figure out WHERE Haleigh was hurt.....I know......if we all could, then we would all know.

Also, there seems to be a pattern if you read what Ron says about his house and how no one except his family, the Croslins and Nay Nay knew where he lived. I will let you all glean your own conclusions from that.

He had redone the locks, put the kids in his room, armed himself to the teeth and hidden his residence from someone......I think this was not his first rodeo. END RANT

sorry for the long post.

 

[kaRN]

The fact that it was a 45 minute interview that started at 11 pm at night, IMO says he was not being questioned as a suspect. Joe did not have to talk to LE even with his attorney. Je could have refused to talk to them. Joe came in voluntarily. Yes, Sheriff Hardy said Joe "lawyered up" but he NEVER said that Joe was refusing to cooperate.

IMO, no attorney is going to agree to meet for an interview at 11 pm at night unless they know ahead of time that their client is just needed to clarify a few things and it will be a short interview. The attorney would have scheduled the interview during the day without assurance from LE.

IMO, LE needed to interview Joe to clarify/confirm statements by Tommy and/or Misty about their actions. An example would be if Tommy said Joe was at his house when Ron called looking for Misty. LE would question Joe if he knew about the call, if he heard Tommy's side of the call, and what Tommy said or did after the call.

IMO, after clearing Joe as having any involvement in March 2009, they did not talk to Joe again until April 2010 for 45 minutes late at night.

IMO, Hardy saying Joe "lawyered up" was a joke because Joe is the only person who cooperates with LE without being pressured into talking. Yet the media had Joe tried and convicted when he was the only one not using his lawyer as an excuse for not cooperating.

Any chance Joe works evenings for low wage and LE arranged a late night meeting at his convenience? Just wondering as it is a strange time.

 

[txsvicki]

I'm still going with my original simple theory that Misty was spiteful and jealous of Ron's kids, previous relationships, and his mom and grandma. The fake pregnancy test shows it along with so many of her statements. I'm beginning to think that the blanket washing story was just a ruse because she was so resentful of AS who claims to have always done the childrens' laundry. AS was there with the laundry that evening and admits that she wasn't too pleased. Misty not originally mentioning her being there could be a big clue that she resented the stern grandma. AS probably made comments which irked Misty even more. IMO, Misty did something or was so resentful that she left the kids alone and a neighborhood pervert came in and took Haleigh.

 

[Emeralgem]

I want to add that I believe that it would be dark in Fl. by 8 or 9 pm in Feb. That is when I believe Ron left work with his accomplices.

I am not sure Misty went along for this ride. Maybe she and the kids were at her parents house. Would be a good precaution to take. Especially when you factor in that Ron was at first staunch in his assertion that they were sleeping together. Maybe they were sleeping together somewhere else.
I just don't have it all figured out. If I could just figure out WHERE Haleigh was hurt.....I know......if we all could, then we would all know.
Also, there seems to be a pattern if you read what Ron says about his house and how no one except his family, the Croslins and Nay Nay knew where he lived. I will let you all glean your own conclusions from that.

He had redone the locks, put the kids in his room, armed himself to the teeth and hidden his residence from someone......I think this was not his first rodeo. END RANT

sorry for the long post.

In February it is dark long before 8 or 9 pm in Florida and like you I haven't figured it all out yet either but I think I do know where Haleigh was hurt.. And IMHO the incident occurred before Ron C ever went in to work that afternoon/evening..And it wasn't too long after Haleigh got off that school bus..JMO

 

[Emeralgem]

Gee I don't know Em, do you suppose it was inadequate police work. The (LE) also allowed TN and GGMS into the crime scene (the police knew immediately that the MH was the last place HC was before she died.) They also did not give drug testing on any of these people.

I believe the actual accident took place at the Croslin's on Magnolia St. after that, they took her back to the MH, called GGMS and nurse to evaluate the situation. Then Haleigh slowly died. MOO :twocents:

I am somewhat confused by your statement when you say.. (the police knew immediately that the MH was the last place HC was before she died.)

And... Do I believe it was/is inadequate police work? Yes, I do..Possibly even more..IMHO something is definitely wrong in how this case has been and is being handled...JMO

Like you, I too believe the incident happened on Magnolia but I'm not certain she was ever brought back to the MH on Green Lane..
One thing I am certain of though, GGMS never saw an alive Haleigh eating dinner on any screened in porch..She made up that story to cover for her granson..She knew he had arrived at his workplace by the time she said she was at the MH...JMO

 

[Chablis]

Gee I don't know Em, do you suppose it was inadequate police work. The (LE) also allowed TN and GGMS into the crime scene (the police knew immediately that the MH was the last place HC was before she died.) They also did not give drug testing on any of these people.

I believe the actual accident took place at the Croslin's on Magnolia St. after that, they took her back to the MH, called GGMS and nurse to evaluate the situation. Then Haleigh slowly died. MOO :twocents:

Yeah, but we really dont know if they did not search Hank and Lisas, or drug test any of them for sure do we?

 

[Emeralgem]

I agree with that theory...I have always felt H was involved in an accident..and it was not in her home...

So...the story that R was saying that he let H sit on his lap and drive home..don't have that link..an accident happened??? On the way to Magnolia? He mentioned H turning on left ...then right blinkers...OR..possible an accident occuring INSIDE the home on Magnolia...

IF just an accident??...why not just call 911..if just an accident??
Why make up a story that involved so much lying, LE involvement, media coverage, speculation, suspicion, and TV interviews????..

Unless a gun/drugs/illegal activity involved...why not take her to the hospital? If she died a slow death...she may have been saved at the hospital

I do believe the incident occurred away from the MH on Green Lane and a gun is/was involved, but do not believe she died a slow death or that she was brought back to the MH on Green Lane..IMHO last thing they woud do is bring a deceased or even a dying child back to a MH they planned to use as an abudction site.. JMO

 

[Emeralgem]

Yeah, but we really dont know if they did not search Hank and Lisas, or drug test any of them for sure do we?

No, we don't.. IIRC.. Only property belonging to any relatives or friends I recall LE ever searching was MG and Crystal's property in Baker County..And IIRC we had knowlege here at WS this was going to take place before they (LE) searched that property... JMO

 

[1Chump]

Any chance Joe works evenings for low wage and LE arranged a late night meeting at his convenience? Just wondering as it is a strange time.

I could not find it but I do remember hearing or reading that Joe meet with LE after he got off of work. However, in over 20 years of working with attorneys, the only clients who could get an attorney in the middle of the night are RICH CLIENTS.

LE met with Joe while the search was going on at the dock.

IMO, LE told Joe's attorney that they needed Joe to confirm Tommy's statements but it had nothing to do with Joe being directly involved with Haleigh. Statements that had to do with the search so they did not want to wait. A 45 minute interview says that LE had very specific questions to ask Joe.

IMO, Joe's attorney agreed because LE was very forthcoming with what they needed and why. Joe's attorney likes Joe and feels that Joe is being treated unfairly in the media and by his own faimily. Every once in a while a client does pull your heartstrings to where you do go that extra mile. In this case, I feel for Joe. The media has reported as fact that Joe is a pedophile and killed Haleigh based on the word of a bunch of liars.

IMO, I also find it very interesting that three attorneys state their clients are cooperating with LE but never tell us specifics about what their clients are saying or what LE is asking. Misty, Tommy's and Joe's.

Although Tommy's attorney did finally speak out about Joe. IMO, that was strategic and at the request of LE because the media had already decided it was all about Joe. I think Tommy's attorney did give some of the "real" story at LE's request to help them apply pressure.

IMO, The only attorney that tries to suggest where LE's investigation is going or speaks out on behalf of his client is Ron's. The one attorney whose client does not cooperate so he has no idea what questions LE is asking.

 

[jessigirl]

Any chance Joe works evenings for low wage and LE arranged a late night meeting at his convenience? Just wondering as it is a strange time.

very good observation on your part, karn. I have read/heard from video clips that yes, indeed Joe did work an overnight shift, therefore more than likely being the reason that LE had the "cut short" 45 min interview with Joe and Atty Shirpo outside of Nashville, TN. Off thge top of my head can only think of 1 link to support that Joe had an overnight workshift and that is the audio taped phone call btwn Tommy, Hank Sr, and Lisa. In this Tommy states that LE is going to arrest Joe soon& possibly even as soon as that night. Hank Sr. replies with the statement that Joe works an overnight shift therefore would be at work if LE arrested him that night. And Tommy says, Good, then they can arrest him at work in front of everyone... I'll ETA the link in just a few when I have a minute to go hunt down the exact link to the convo or to the transcript of the audio taped phone convo....
(Also, just wanted to add if you believe Grandma Hollars[which I do find that alot of her statements have been corroborated to infact be true]she states in 1 of the audio released phonecalls of tommy's, that Joe not only showed up to the late night meeting "drunker than a skunk" but more importantly Joe with his Atty present plead the 5th to ALL questions asked by LE, and that was the reason the meeting was cut so short. Which IMHO makes a heckuva alot more sense as to why so short, with FDLE fling all the way to Nashville, TN at that hour of night and then flew directly back.I think would indicate was QUITE IMPORTANT and were probably quite discouraged with his pleading the 5th to all of those important questions, but of course that is just MOO of how I think LE probably felt about the situation)

 

[grandmaj]

Jessie did GGM Hollars actually use this quote below? Do you have a link?

"drunker than a skunk"

 

[Emeralgem]

very good observation on your part, karn. I have read/heard from video clips that yes, indeed Joe did work an overnight shift, therefore more than likely being the reason that LE had the "cut short" 45 min interview with Joe and Atty Shirpo outside of Nashville, TN. Off thge top of my head can only think of 1 link to support that Joe had an overnight workshift and that is the audio taped phone call btwn Tommy, Hank Sr, and Lisa. In this Tommy states that LE is going to arrest Joe soon& possibly even as soon as that night. Hank Sr. replies with the statement that Joe works an overnight shift therefore would be at work if LE arrested him that night. And Tommy says, Good, then they can arrest him at work in front of everyone... I'll ETA the link in just a few when I have a minute to go hunt down the exact link to the convo or to the transcript of the audio taped phone convo....
(Also, just wanted to add if you believe Grandma Hollars[which I do find that alot of her statements have been corroborated to infact be true]she states in 1 of the audio released phonecalls of tommy's, that Joe not only showed up to the late night meeting "drunker than a skunk" but more importantly Joe with his Atty present plead the 5th to ALL questions asked by LE, and that was the reason the meeting was cut so short. Which IMHO makes a heckuva alot more sense as to why so short, with FDLE fling all the way to Nashville, TN at that hour of night and then flew directly back.I think would indicate was QUITE IMPORTANT and were probably quite discouraged with his pleading the 5th to all of those important questions, but of course that is just MOO of how I think LE probably felt about the situation)

Please, do you have a link that states Jo pleaded the fifth in that interview with FDLE when they flew to Nashville, Tn to interview him and thats WHY the interview was cut so short?

 

[jessigirl]

Jessie did GGM Hollars actually use this quote below? Do you have a link?

"drunker than a skunk"

yes maam. I will find exactly which audio and post link to it. I'm almost positive this was the saying she did use, "drunker than a skunk"(as it is a commonly used term in the south that I've heard my entire life) but will make sure as to the exact "saying" that Grannie used in reference Joe's being intoxicated. If it's not that exact wording then is something very near\(as in "he was drunker than a ______") I will go thru audio(it was in 1 of the 16 that were released last month) and post the link to it of where anyone can hear...


ETA- If anyone knows off hand which audio from those 16 Tommy phonecalls that were released last month, its the one where Tommy calls Grandma Hollars cell phone and Grandma Hollars&Aunt Vicky are in the car on their way home in part of the call, and in the last portion of that cal,l they are home and Tommy has them call Lindsy from their home phone line. This is the audio where Grandma Hollars says these two specific things about Joe and the meeting with LE. So, if anyone knows off hand which # audio that is, please post it. TIA!

 

[krkrjx]

WOW, I had never heard that Flora was present when FDLE interviewed Joe. I would be very interested in any statement from LE or Joe's attorney that Joe ended that interview by pleading the 5th--or even a statement from a reliable source stating Flora was present at that interview. TIA.

 

[jessigirl]

WOW, I had never heard that Flora was present when FDLE interviewed Joe. I would be very interested in any statement from LE or Joe's attorney that Joe ended that interview by pleading the 5th--or even a statement from a reliable source stating Flora was present at that interview. TIA.

OH NO. i did not say nor insinuate that Flora Hollars was IN THE MEETING!... I only quoted what Flora Hollars said in audio taped phone call with Tommy. I am on my iphone right now and cannot listen to the audio tapes(apple does not support Flash PLAYER,WISH IT DID)TO BE ABLE TO POST EXACT #(ITS 1 out of 16audio recordings released in May), but cannot listen to them til I get home to see what # audio this is stated by not only Flora Hollars, but then repeated by Aunt Vicky. But never did I say thaey were present. Just as Flora was not present on the night Haleigh was killed but some of the events that occurred that night she has relayed thru the media. What I posted is just the same, statements made by Flora Hollars(and she lives within miles of this man, her grandson&still speaks with her daughter, his mother, so if anyone COULD POSSIBLY KNOW if infact he did plead the 5th to LE questions&also what condition he was in as far as sobriety, I'd say this woman would have a very good chance of knowing such of her grandson) and their are those of us who parts I believe to be true, just as in this entire case I believe their are some parts that are the truth while others are lies,each person has to decide for themselves what they believe to be true and what they think is not true, and that's a matter of each of our own opinions. But no where did I say she was present and it is for each individual person to decide whether to believe all, any, or none of what Flora Hollars has to say.

 

[krkrjx]

OH NO. i did not say nor insinuate that Flora Hollars was IN THE MEETING!... I only quoted what Flora Hollars said in audio taped phone call with Tommy.
...

OK, thanks jessigirl, I had misunderstood your post as stating it as a fact. But now I understand you were stating that the factual part is that Flora said it.

I have seen it posted before that Joe plead the 5th/refused to cooperate with LE at that April interview, but never have seen a link provided for LE (or even JO's lawyer) confirming that.

Flora can say whatever she wants, I guess--freedom of speech and all that. For me, though, Flora is not a reliable source for anything other than her own opinion.

However, if there is ANYTHING available from a reliable source that says Joe plead the 5th and thus ended the interview, I definitely want to see it. Because to me, that would be huge.

 

[Emeralgem]

OH NO. i did not say nor insinuate that Flora Hollars was IN THE MEETING!... I only quoted what Flora Hollars said in audio taped phone call with Tommy. I am on my iphone right now and cannot listen to the audio tapes(apple does not support Flash PLAYER,WISH IT DID)TO BE ABLE TO POST EXACT #(ITS 1 out of 16audio recordings released in May), but cannot listen to them til I get home to see what # audio this is stated by not only Flora Hollars, but then repeated by Aunt Vicky. But never did I say thaey were present. Just as Flora was not present on the night Haleigh was killed but some of the events that occurred that night she has relayed thru the media. What I posted is just the same, statements made by Flora Hollars(and she lives within miles of this man, her grandson&still speaks with her daughter, his mother, so if anyone COULD POSSIBLY KNOW if infact he did plead the 5th to LE questions&also what condition he was in as far as sobriety, I'd say this woman would have a very good chance of knowing such of her grandson) and their are those of us who parts I believe to be true, just as in this entire case I believe their are some parts that are the truth while others are lies,each person has to decide for themselves what they believe to be true and what they think is not true, and that's a matter of each of our own opinions. But no where did I say she was present and it is for each individual person to decide whether to believe all, any, or none of what Flora Hollars has to say.

I have been looking for the last hour for the interview of Jo and Mr. Sirgo , but have been unable to find it.. I do know elle1919 posted the links several months back, and I do recall Jo stating he did not do it.. That doesn't sound like he pleaded the 5th to me...Also, from what his attorney stated in reference to the meeting he and Jo had with FDLE it did not sound like the 5th was pleaded in that meeting either...

Overstreet’s lawyer said they would continue to cooperate and be available to speak with law enforcement if and when they wanted to interview him again.

“Based on my experience with those officers, there’s going to be an arrest,” Sirgo said. “But I don’t know who.”

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...heriff-status-haleigh-cummings-case-unchanged