George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[beach]

Dear Mods: when the case is finished, can we have a poll as to guilty, not guilty, undecided? Maybe one where we can also state the reason we voted the way we did.

Thanks!

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

I can't make any promises....will need to run it by Tricia. Will pass it on that way now.

 

[missmazzy]

I think it was GZ because the neighbor said he was yelling At him.. HELP! HELP me and that he went into to call 911 and then the shot rang out. I believe he stopped screaming once he realized he was safe.

I think the sound of the gunshot, especially being so close to his head, probably startled him and he shut up. JMO.

 

[DIBSY]

It still does NOT negate the fact that according to her testimony.. TM said to GZ "get off, get off" IMO.. TM could have approached GZ to find out why he was following him (totally legal) BUT as soon as one person put their hands on the other.. THAT'S when the confrontation started. IMO.. GZ started the altercation.

Yes !!!

 

[Donnareit]

I have said in the past that if Juan Martinez questioned me, I would probably confess to murder.

Heck, just knowing he was going to question me could get me to confess.

 

[Mrs.g]

I think it was GZ because the neighbor said he was yelling At him.. HELP! HELP me and that he went into to call 911 and then the shot rang out. I believe he stopped screaming once he realized he was safe.

But don't you also believe TM was alive after and GZ thought he could still be a threat (why he said he placed his hands out to the side)? If he thought that why not continue to scream for help?

 

[AngelWings444]

Mom23 and Angelwings,
Once a witness has been excused, they CAN legally sit in the courtroom.

If they are to be recalled later, they may not.

They are saying Donnelly was in court for TWO days prior to testifying. They have him on tape. Legally, he was not allowed in court. :twocents:

 

[Lovelymountains]

If you look at my signature, I have plainly put that for the Zimmerman trial all posts are my opinion except where there is a link.

Yes, I realize that but someone has been repeatedly insisting that it be put with every post. I don't think it was a moderator. IMO

 

[Mahouston69]

Not if they live up to the oath they take. They are the mediators of the truth. They have to find it credible to use it to make their decision on whether the state has proven their case.

I thought it was their job to decide if each expert or witness was credible and accept their testimony as a whole, not bits and pieces.

 

[gxm]

It still does NOT negate the fact that according to her testimony.. TM said to GZ "get off, get off" IMO.. TM could have approached GZ to find out why he was following him (totally legal) BUT as soon as one person put their hands on the other.. THAT'S when the confrontation started. IMO.. GZ started the altercation.

The fact you are intent on not "negating" doesn't prove anything regarding who started the confrontation. For all we know, TM could have been telling RJ to get off the phone. Or he could have been using those words to tell GZ to back off and stop following him. Those words do not in any way prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ initiated the physical confrontation. The direct punch to GZ's nose, however, shows that most likely TM sucker punched him. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But don't you also believe TM was alive after and GZ thought he could still be a threat (why he said he placed his hands out to the side)? If he thought that why not continue to scream for help?

Because it probably stunned him. He just shot someone. I believe that TM was alive but incapacitated greatly even if he could still move as per testimony.

If I recall his neighbor was out there ASAP within the shot.

 

[deelytful1]

That is not what the ME said based on research.

If your information about juries and credible witnesses is correct.. I would totally NOT find this ME's testimony credible if I was a juror!! MOO

 

[AngelWings444]

I must have missed this development. Can you please explain further or provide a link where I can read more? Thanks.

Sorry. I'm not ignoring you. I was listening to WFTV online. Reading KB and BS's comments. They are going to have the hearing about it at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow. They could throw out his entire testimony. MOO

 

[lisasalinger]

Actually, IMO, it's the other way round, there is *no proof* to support the versions of events as stated by GZ, no GZ DNA on TM, indicating at least *some* physical contact, no lethal weapon on TM, no signs of 25 blows on the concrete sidewalk, no eye witness accounts, etc.

IMO, GZ had *some* injuries, but I've had suffered worse from falls of my own doing, so those cuts and bruises do not provide clear evidence, only suggestions.

Respectfully, I'd like to address the items I highlighted in red:

IMO, George's version of events match up very well with the physical evidence and witness testimony.

IMO, the ME from today gave excellent testimony about the gun shot being fired from below in to the body of the attacker on the top. He also testified that Trayvon may not have sustained bruising to the hands from punching. It doesn't happen every time somebody throws a punch. Maybe he punched George once and the rest were just grabbing, slamming and struggling. That could explain no bruising on his hands. Plus, the ME said that an internal exam of that portion of the body is the best way to determine bruising (not from the outside view) but an internal exam on the hands was not done.

John Good, the resident who was the closest witness to the attack testified that Trayvon was on top, moving his hands in a downward motion towards George and also accurately described the clothing on both Trayvon and George. He testified that they struggled on the grass first and then on the pavement, as George stated.

One of the female witnesses who testified to looking out after the gunshot (can't remember her name), saw George on top. George stated that he got on top of Trayvon after the shot and that Trayvon was face down in the grass. Every witness testified that Trayvon was face down after the shot, and that matches George's statements. Remember... the witness statements were given prior to them ever hearing what George had to say about that night. Most of the details from them and him match up very well.

As for the 25+ blows reported. I think it's easy to exaggerate how many times you have been hit in a fit. In the midst of a fight, I'm sure people don't count exactly what is happening to you.

The injuries to George's nose/face are consistent with being punched in the face, as George stated.

George never stated that Trayvon had a lethal weapon on his person. He stated that Trayvon was using the concrete against his head, and that can be considered a lethal weapon.

The injuries sustained do not have to be life threatening to use self defense, but rather there needs to be the perception that the attacker is using lethal force on you to defend yourself in the manner he did. I'm paraphrasing a bit, for the record, I am not stating exact law. Just stating how I understand it.

Combine George's statements, with the injuries to the front & back of his head, with John Good's witness statement (the closest witness to the event) and everything matches. There was a fight, there was enough reason for George to believe that he could be killed, legally he was carrying & concealing his weapon and he defended himself.

IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I thought it was their job to decide if each expert or witness was credible and accept their testimony as a whole, not bits and pieces.

No. They can take a witness, Listen to the testimony and take what they think is credible and then dismiss what they don't find credible.

They are looking at the evidence, Testimony and the witnesses that supplied it.

The point is they are looking for the truth in the evidence. Think about it. If a witness testifies for the state. But the defense brings forth something from them they agree with, They can then toss out what the state brought forth if that no longer fits what they feel is the best credible answer from that witness.

 

[popsicle]

Scarlett,
You have been sensible from day one. There are some people who won't listen, no matter what you do and some who don't know the laws and don't care to learn. Just as in the Arias case. Good luck with them.
IMO. MOO. JMO.

And some that I don't think are even following the trial or evidence. imo

 

[AngelWings444]

If you look at my signature, I have plainly put that for the Zimmerman trial all posts are my opinion except where there is a link.

The Mods have asked us to use it in every single post, not our signatures. In fact, you have continually reminded peeps to do the same thing, so this thread doesn't get shut down. Let's play nice and put MOO, IMO and JMO unless we have a link to back it up. We don't want this thread getting shut down. Please...

 

[mom23gr8kids]

The defense and Zimmerman knew that Donnelly was in court prior to his testimony. To me, that shows their utter disregard to the rules of the court and deception on GZ's part. He knew his friend, who bought him all the suits, was in court those TWO days!

MOO

Info on this please. I haven't seen anything that says he was in court before testimony. Thanks.

Edited: Saw your response about the hearing. Thanks a bunch.

 

[ncgramma]

What's been particularly interesting to me listening to Mrs. LD's and other testimonies is how many of the people who lived there had trouble identifying the street names when describing where they were or where things occurred. I think many of us are surprised that a neighborhood with only 3 streets would cause such trouble. This was one of the things that had me befuddled when GZ had trouble giving NEN the address. I guess it's not so unusual after all. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The Mods have asked us to use it in every single post, not our signatures. In fact, you have continually reminded peeps to do the same thing, so this thread doesn't get shut down. Let's play nice and put MOO, IMO and JMO unless we have a link to back it up. We don't want this thread getting shut down. Please...

I promise I would do nothing to get this thread shut down. It is completely acceptable according to Admin.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

Sorry. I'm not ignoring you. I was listening to WFTV online. Reading KB and BS's comments. They are going to have the hearing about it at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow. They could throw out his entire testimony. MOO

WOW thanks. That is terrible if this happened. I would think that witness could be charged with contempt! IMO